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Breaktru Forum  |  eCigarette Forum  |  Modding  |  Topic: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
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Author Topic: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D  (Read 77861 times)

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Offline warlordxxx

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2014, 10:35:54 PM »
Good to see you here Mamu I remember when I was first starting out on the OKR mods and I PM'd you on ECF asking which toggle switches you used lol and I remember PM'ing Breaktru when I first came over here - Yes I was that nuisance lol

Offline Romelee

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2014, 03:02:22 PM »
Looks like the good stuff, 63/37, rosin core, 1mm.  Should do the job nicely.

It doesn't say, but the rosin is probably the standard activated type so you'll need to clean it off with isoproyl alcohol when done soldering.  You can use the higher purity rubbing alcohol from the drug store, something like 90% will do.  I normally buy the technical grade stuff from MG Chemicals which is like 99.5% pure, but I've used the 90% rubbing alcohol from the drugstore before and it works well enough.

Just aswell i have about 750ml of 99.5% isoproyl , use it to clean most of my vaping gear.....i am a severe OCD person....everything must be clean  :yes"

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2014, 04:09:15 PM »
I remember my first time - all the cautions and concerns and I was freakin a bit.  After a few times of working with them, you're not as nervous, but still always cautious.

I even solder the round cells, though I would not recommend it.  The data sheets all say not to solder them, but I figured out how to do it without damaging them at all.  It's super tricky though.  First time I tried it was in the garage on the cement floor with a fire extinguisher next to me.  Now I do them on the workbench without much concern.

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2014, 04:18:20 PM »
Just aswell i have about 750ml of 99.5% isoproyl , use it to clean most of my vaping gear.....i am a severe OCD person....everything must be clean  :yes"

What's really rewarding is when you clean off all the flux from a big assembly and then all the joints are perfectly smooth and shiny.  The 63/37 does that.

Offline Romelee

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2014, 06:57:09 AM »

Another option with the size of enclosure you have, you could easily fit a dual 18650 batt holder and use dual parallel 18650 batts.

I am gonna take the safer route for my first build, there is just something niggling at the back of my mind to take a safer route for now and once comfortable with doing things then use them Lipo batteries that are on their way to me for another mod.

I like the idea of 2 x 18650 batteries in parallel so am wondering if this will be fine:

Type: 2 batteries parallel
Dimensions: 2 Battery: 75.75mm x 41.25 x 18.75mm (19.75mm high with battery)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18650-Battery-Holders-1-2-3-4-Batteries-Serial-Parallel-Options-UK-Stock-/281199951833?clk_rvr_id=569471018083

If i was to use the above is there any change in wiring up? do i still need to use the fuses, i presume the USB charger will still be ok to use?

Sorry to be a pain :(

Offline kortt

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2014, 12:52:59 PM »
I have been using a cheapo $20 soldering station and I do more cursing than soldering with it lol.  I just ordered a Hakko FX-888D the other day as my Christmas present for myself so greatly anticipating it's arrival.  I also ordered a T18-B tip to try as well.

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2014, 01:21:33 PM »
I have been using a cheapo $20 soldering station and I do more cursing than soldering with it lol.  I just ordered a Hakko FX-888D the other day as my Christmas present for myself so greatly anticipating it's arrival.  I also ordered a T18-B tip to try as well.

You won't be sorry. Money well spent

Offline kortt

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2014, 01:53:58 PM »
You won't be sorry. Money well spent
It's always nice to have quality tools.  I don't have a digital thermometer so I'm hoping the station comes calibrated although I guess If it melts solder then it's close enough lol.

Offline Romelee

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2014, 02:03:32 PM »
Can anyone confirm this bit from my last post:

I like the idea of 2 x 18650 batteries in parallel so am wondering if this will be fine:

Type: 2 batteries parallel
Dimensions: 2 Battery: 75.75mm x 41.25 x 18.75mm (19.75mm high with battery)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18650-Battery-Holders-1-2-3-4-Batteries-Serial-Parallel-Options-UK-Stock-/281199951833?clk_rvr_id=569471018083

If i was to use the above is there any change in wiring up? do i still need to use the fuses, i presume the USB charger will still be ok to use?

Before i buy it?

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2014, 02:37:44 PM »
It's always nice to have quality tools.  I don't have a digital thermometer so I'm hoping the station comes calibrated although I guess If it melts solder then it's close enough lol.

I picked up an FX888D as a backup station, sometimes you need two irons for disassembley and rework.  My primary station is a Weller WESD51 which costs about twice as much.  The quality is pretty impressive with the Hakko, though I like the tips better for the Weller station.

The tip the Hakko comes with is good for heavier work like wires, LiPo tabs, and larger components, but if you want to do fine PCB work, you'll need a finer tip.  For the Hakko I get the best results for fine work using the T18-BR02 tip.  That one has an angle on it which is really handy for densely laid out components.  Also, it's short to it doesn't loose much heat at the very end of the tip.

My Hakko was pretty far off on the calibration.  I had to adjust it probably 100F.  What you can do is use the solder melting point as a scale.  63/37 solder melts at exactly 361F so you can use that as a gauge for calibration.

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #60 on: January 05, 2014, 02:46:13 PM »
I just ordered a Hakko FX-888D the other day as my Christmas present for myself so greatly anticipating it's arrival.

My present was this; http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDS1102E.html   Finally going to ditch that archaic analog scope I've been using for years.  Though it's like saying goodbye to an old friend.  That old thing helped me build a good number of projects.  It's coming via ground from the East coast so it's going to take some time to get here.


« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 02:49:36 PM by CraigHB »

Offline kortt

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #61 on: January 05, 2014, 02:54:15 PM »
Romelee, I think those battery holders would work as long as they have decent contacts and a heavy enough gauge wire.   I like 20AWG wire for anything carrying current in a mod such as from the battery and to the atty connector.

Craig, I based my purchase of the Hakko partially on your post/review of it in this forum.  All the reviews I've read or watched on youtube rave about it.  I don't plan on doing any fine PCB work but it's nice to know the tip selection for that unit is wide ranging.  Good point about the solder melting point.  Nice scope BTW...isn't the anticipation unbearable? lol

Offline Romelee

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #62 on: January 05, 2014, 03:04:09 PM »
Romelee, I think those battery holders would work as long as they have decent contacts and a heavy enough gauge wire.   I like 20AWG wire for anything carrying current in a mod such as from the battery and to the atty connector.

Thanks for the reply kortt, i suppose if the wires supplied with the battery compartment are poor i could always replace them with my own 20AWG wire i have.

My other concern was do i still use the fuses i have (i presume i do) and that the battery compartment/batteries can still be used with the Evolv USB charger.....sure i read somewhere that the USB charger will have problems with parallel 18650 batteries.

EDIT: I would also like too apologize for all the silly questions, even though they may sound like dumb questions to you's they ain't to me as i am useless when it comes to batteries, making/building things i am quite good at but batteries go right over my head :(
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 03:08:51 PM by Romelee »

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #63 on: January 05, 2014, 03:13:44 PM »
Nice scope BTW...isn't the anticipation unbearable? lol

Yeah, it can be, though I'm not looking forward to the time I'll have to spend with the user manual.  Analog scopes are very easy to use, don't need to RTFM for those.

Li-Ion charger controllers are affected little by the impedance they see from the battery pack they're charging.  They simply regulate voltage to a achieve a particular current, doesn't really matter if the impedance is higher or lower due to the number of batteries in parallel or if it's higher because there are fuses inline.  So, to answer question, charging should not be a problem if you want to run two or more cells in parallel and fuse them.

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #64 on: January 05, 2014, 03:33:02 PM »
Oh, an afterthought, there is a hardware issue that can pop up when charging multiple parallel cells.  Since impedance is lower, there's less voltage drop in charging which means the charger controller has to dissipate more heat for a longer period of time.  This is normally not an issue for any charger controller (the chip that does the work) since they have thermal limiting which protects them from working too hard.

In the case of the Evolv USB charger, I've read it can have reliablity issues.  I don't know if those have been resolved or not.  When charging multiple cells, the controller is going to have to dissiapate more heat for a longer period of time so that could increase the potential for failure if there's any weakness there.

Offline kortt

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #65 on: January 05, 2014, 03:35:50 PM »
I would still use the fuse.  You will want to be careful if you have to upgrade the wiring on the battery box since the heat of soldering will tend to melt the plastic.  Another option might be to get the battery box and then buy some decent battery contacts and replace the ones in the box.  I use keystone battery contact in my mods, but I usually build wood boxes so have to build in my battery contacts myself.
The part numbers I use are:

Positive: KEYSTONE  5223  http://canada.newark.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=15003&langId=1&urlRequestType=Base&partNumber=31C6771&storeId=10196
Negative: KEYSTONE  5201  http://canada.newark.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=15003&langId=1&urlRequestType=Base&partNumber=31C6766&storeId=10196

I listed the urls just to give you an idea of what they are and how they look.


Offline Romelee

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #66 on: January 05, 2014, 03:57:45 PM »
Oh, an afterthought, there is a hardware issue that can pop up when charging multiple parallel cells.  Since impedance is lower, there's less voltage drop in charging which means the charger controller has to dissipate more heat for a longer period of time.  This is normally not an issue for any charger controller (the chip that does the work) since they have thermal limiting which protects them from working too hard.

In the case of the Evolv USB charger, I've read it can have reliablity issues.  I don't know if those have been resolved or not.  When charging multiple cells, the controller is going to have to dissiapate more heat for a longer period of time so that could increase the potential for failure if there's any weakness there.

Many thanks for the info, would this USB charger be better as i am sure it is the same one Breaktru posted in the picture on this thread: http://www.stealthvape.co.uk/electronic-cigarette-mod-parts/other/usb-lithium-charger-pcb-board

?

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #67 on: January 05, 2014, 04:29:01 PM »
That's the Chinese board we've talked about a bit here on the forum.  It doesn't have accuracy quite as good as other boards, but otherwise should do the job well enough.  You can actually find those boards for a couple bucks on eBay.  They are capable of a 1A rate so that's one good thing about them.

Offline Romelee

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #68 on: January 05, 2014, 04:40:49 PM »
That's the Chinese board we've talked about a bit here on the forum.  It doesn't have accuracy quite as good as other boards, but otherwise should do the job well enough.  You can actually find those boards for a couple bucks on eBay.  They are capable of a 1A rate so that's one good thing about them.

Thanks craig, got one from here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321274258808?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

 ;cheers;

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #69 on: January 05, 2014, 06:03:40 PM »

Offline warlordxxx

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #70 on: January 05, 2014, 06:59:22 PM »
Also the other thing that i've found when buying from china it often helps to use ebay.com (when in the UK) the exchange rates sometimes means you can get the same part from the same seller cheaper using the .com

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #71 on: January 05, 2014, 07:14:30 PM »
It seriously amazes me how those Chinese sellers can list stuff so cheap.  If you look up just the USB connector at some place like Mouser or Digikey, it's like a dollar, even in quantity.

Offline mamu

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #72 on: January 05, 2014, 10:00:49 PM »
...Another option might be to get the battery box and then buy some decent battery contacts and replace the ones in the box.

Definitely agree with that.  The contacts from these batt boxes usually have high contact resistance and cause problems.  Keystone contacts are great and I've had zero issues with them.


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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #73 on: January 05, 2014, 10:26:00 PM »
If i was to use the above is there any change in wiring up? do i still need to use the fuses, i presume the USB charger will still be ok to use?

Wiring guide:

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #74 on: January 05, 2014, 10:28:34 PM »
Definitely agree with that.  The contacts from these batt boxes usually have high contact resistance and cause problems.  Keystone contacts are great and I've had zero issues with them.

My add of  :2cents:


The aa battery boxes from fasttech have the best contacts I have seen in any similar bat box I was surprised they are really good.

http://www.fasttech.com/products/1009/10002604/1280000

not as good as the keystones but beefier and better mounting point than OEM of any other aa box I have. 

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #75 on: January 06, 2014, 06:44:30 AM »
I cancelled that battery box holder and ended up getting one from here:

2 cell battery holder: http://www.customduo.co.uk/Pages/batteryholders18650.aspx

« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 07:07:49 AM by Romelee »

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #76 on: January 06, 2014, 12:50:59 PM »
Finally everything is on order and everything apart from that box above has been dispatched scared:

With that box above this (hope it is correct) is how i am gonna set it up:

EDITED with my final battery setup:

« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 04:44:39 AM by Romelee »

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #77 on: January 06, 2014, 05:42:42 PM »
Those battery holders are really nice looking.  Having the FR4 backplanes is a huge quality feature. 

Wiring looks good, should work great for you.

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #78 on: January 06, 2014, 09:32:13 PM »
That battery box looks pretty cool.  Is it modular?

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #79 on: January 08, 2014, 02:54:05 AM »
That battery box looks pretty cool.  Is it modular?

Judging by the pictures on their site i think it's modular but the seller looks like they only sell complete sets not individual parts, funny thing the other day they was in stock of everything and now there's not much left to choose from oh_my:

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #80 on: January 08, 2014, 07:01:26 AM »
Welcome to the world of posting part numbers/links and then finding them later out of stock. Been there.

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #81 on: January 11, 2014, 03:06:39 PM »
85% complete :rockin smiley:

As you know i am trying to make the Milo but with a different size box and using parallel 18650 battery case, in the guide it says:

Adhere the back of the DNA board to the batt using clear mounting tape. The top of the DNA board should be ~ ¼" or so down from the top of the batt.

My problem is that because i ain't using Lipo batt's i have nothing to stick the DNA board too, any suggestions?

Cheers

Jason

p.s I fully understand now on what you mean on getting a good Soldering Iron, my crappy one made a easy job into a hard job :(

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #82 on: January 11, 2014, 04:44:52 PM »
Maybe you can take a photo of the insides with the batts in so we can see what it looks like and we can give some advise on mounting the DNA board

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #83 on: January 12, 2014, 11:00:17 AM »
Maybe you can take a photo of the insides with the batts in so we can see what it looks like and we can give some advise on mounting the DNA board

This is how far i have got so far and the only questions is:

How i will mount the DNA display as i ain't using lipo batts i don't have anything to stick it too

How to mount the battery case, i presume Epoxy would be fine

If the DNA20 display does not glow enough when the cover is put (milo mentioned in her guide "I remove the black transparent piece covering the OLED. I use a craft knife and slip it under a corner of the plastic piece then slide the craft knife along the underside of the plastic piece) how easy is this, bit scared to do this?

Just for info the blue plastic cover is not the right size, correct size is on it's way to me, silly me ordered it with round corners :(



Cheers all

Jason

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #84 on: January 12, 2014, 11:29:18 AM »
I am assuming that you will NOT remove the batteries being that you are using a USB charger.
Once you insert the batteries you should be able to use a strip of foam adhesive tape across the two cells and stick the back of the board to the tape. Do the same between the display and the DNA board.

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #85 on: January 12, 2014, 01:55:02 PM »
Thanks Breaktru, i completely forgot about the mounting tabs Doh: , had them on order for over two weeks now, sent a mail to the supplier and they are sending them out again as it seems they have been lost in post.

I was wondering about the 510 atty connector, do you seal the bottom of it (inside) with epoxy just in case juice from a atty leaks and goes down the atty connector into the box?

I am in two minds of filling it, the only thing that is stopping me is if i have to de-solder the wires inside for some reason but then i am thinking what is worse, juice getting into the box or just buying a new 510 atty connector and replacing the old one.

Also can Kapton tape be used instead of basic electrical tape.

Hopefully by mid next week i will be able to post a piccy of it complete and stop driving you all mad with questions.

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #86 on: January 12, 2014, 02:32:14 PM »
Also can Kapton tape be used instead of basic electrical tape.

Kapton tape is far superior to electrical tape.  It has a much higher tolerance to heat than vinyl tape.  In fact, it can be used for solder masking and often is.  The stuff is typically much thinner than vinyl tape, but even so, the material has excellent insulation characteristics so it's not a problem.

On thing to consider with cells is that you may want to replace them at some point.  The cells in my mods are about as non-removable as you can get, but I still made considerations in the assembly to allow the cell to be replaced at some point.  So, you may want to avoid glueing or using high bond two sided tape on the cells.

Offline Romelee

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #87 on: January 12, 2014, 03:07:55 PM »
Kapton tape is far superior to electrical tape.  It has a much higher tolerance to heat than vinyl tape.  In fact, it can be used for solder masking and often is.  The stuff is typically much thinner than vinyl tape, but even so, the material has excellent insulation characteristics so it's not a problem.

On thing to consider with cells is that you may want to replace them at some point.  The cells in my mods are about as non-removable as you can get, but I still made considerations in the assembly to allow the cell to be replaced at some point.  So, you may want to avoid glueing or using high bond two sided tape on the cells.

Thanks Craig, with the display i am gonna stick some basic double sided foam tabs, not strong adhesive ones because as you say i will someday need to remove the batts.

With the battery case i am gonna stick it down in place with Epoxy.

Still UN-decided on whether to fill the 510 atty connector with epoxy due to juice leaks into the mod :Thinking:

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #88 on: January 12, 2014, 03:48:30 PM »
I think filling the 510 connector has two schools of thought.  If you can improve the connector with a better insulator or do like mamu does with the fiber washer you could get away without filling it.  I pretty much only use carto tanks on my devices and I always fill thiem.  Before I do though I test them to make sure the connections are good.  I learned the hard way about filling the connector and then finding out the connection was bad.

If you are using a lot of different devices which might have varying post depth required you probably don't want to fill the 510 connector so you can pull or adjust the post.

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #89 on: January 12, 2014, 03:54:44 PM »
If you are using a lot of different devices which might have varying post depth required you probably don't want to fill the 510 connector so you can pull or adjust the post.

Good point, that slipped my mind ;cheers;

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #90 on: January 12, 2014, 04:03:58 PM »
Another consideration if you don't fill the connector is what kind of wire you use on the positive center pin.  I use solid core 20awg wire and it doesn't have much give so if you needed to pull or sink the post It might cause a problem.  If you wanted an adjustable center post in the connector you might want to consider something less rigid like a stranded silicone clad wire.

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #91 on: January 12, 2014, 05:11:09 PM »
I put a piece of cotton in my connector for those rare leaks.  I  have not caught one drip in the cotton yet.  I use everything 510 808 306 every which way on it carts, tanks, rba, rda, etc etc.. It makes a really good seal if you make it make a good seal..  The fiber washer is a godsend that wont leave your shorts exposed and around your ankles ..  Like these three guys



moving along nicely romelee

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #92 on: January 12, 2014, 08:55:15 PM »
Looking good, Romelee - you're almost there!

I used to seal the underside of the connector with epoxy, but don't anymore. 

As long as the insulator is intact, there won't be any leaks from the connector.  I have switches and screws on the top cap of Lexi and was concerned if juice could get inside the case so did a leak test a while back - let it set for several hours and no leaks at all.

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #93 on: January 13, 2014, 07:13:13 AM »
Thanks for all the tips ;cheers;

As there is no polarity on the tactile switches does it matter what wire out of the two on the switch goes on the DNA board + or -


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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #94 on: January 13, 2014, 08:48:05 AM »
There is no polarity on the switch or switch input
Just make sure you use the correct pins
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 04:39:29 PM by Breaktru »

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #95 on: January 13, 2014, 04:22:43 PM »
Very strange, wired it all up and all worked fine, moved the DNA20 board a bit to the top right of the box and now it won't work.

Everything lights up as normal, up and down change the wattage all ok but the fire button does nothing, won't check atomizer or fire up, the only thing it does do when i press it is make the display go a bit brighter :(

 :help:

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #96 on: January 13, 2014, 04:44:12 PM »
If the display get brighter then the fire button is working. You may need to "Reset" the MCU by removing power for a second or three and then re-power. If you can't pullup the batteries, unsolder either the battery neg or pos lead.

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #97 on: January 13, 2014, 04:57:30 PM »
If the display get brighter then the fire button is working. You may need to "Reset" the MCU by removing power for a second or three and then re-power. If you can't pullup the batteries, unsolder either the battery neg or pos lead.

Tried that, took the batteries out for a couple of minutes and put them back in, also checked all connections with a multimeter and all readings seem fine :(

EDIT: The only connection that is not 100% is the USB charger cable which i will fix tomorrow, cannot see how that would effect the firing though.

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #98 on: January 16, 2014, 02:39:13 PM »
Just for info: It was the 510 wire that came loose and all is sorted now, cover should be with me in two days and will post a thank you with pictures of the mod when finished :thankyou: all

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Re: Looking for help with the Milo-DNA20D
« Reply #99 on: January 16, 2014, 02:48:18 PM »
Good to hear, glad it was something simple.  :beer-toast:

Can't wait to see the finished mod!

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