Dna 30 box mod help

[xnuge]

so im new to this forum also i want to build my own dna 30 box mod because it cost way too much to buy one , im willing to learn and try to build my own first one doesnt matter how it looks just want one

is there a video tutorial or a tutorial ?

i need to know all the parts i need and where to get them and serious help 

[xnuge]

so many people making it on this forum but why hasnt there been a video tutorial yet

[mamu]

There are a few video box mod build tutorials available - google or youtube is your friend there for search.

This may help get you started with the DNA... Milo-DNA20D

Build as is per the instructions or customize it how you want - change the case, the batts, the switches, whatever you like.

[deftones]

Thank you for this tutorial mamu, it made me think I could do it! 
Well, try.

[xnuge]

There are a few video box mod build tutorials available - google or youtube is your friend there for search.

This may help get you started with the DNA... Milo-DNA20D

Build as is per the instructions or customize it how you want - change the case, the batts, the switches, whatever you like.

would the instructions be the same if you used a dna 30 chip ?

also why isnt anyone willing to make a tutorial video for beginners ? im sure it wont take that long and would help many people like me interested in making there own

[xnuge]

it looks easy but still hard at the same time because i dont get the wirering , im more of a video learner lol

[mamu]

would the instructions be the same if you used a dna 30 chip ?

also why isnt anyone willing to make a tutorial video for beginners ? im sure it wont take that long and would help many people like me interested in making there own

The build for the DNA20 and DNA30 is exactly the same, except for fuses.  For the DNA20 you'd want 2x 3A fuses and for the DNA30 you'd want 2x 6A fuses.

You've mentioned 3x now about wanting a video.  Many of us don't have the time required to make a video of a build, nor do we necessarily want to, plus it takes several hours to do a build.  We all are volunteers here with help, sharing, and tutorials.  If the only way you can learn is via video and a written step-by-step tutorial won't do it for you, then unfortunately you're out of luck.

[Breaktru]

I agree with mamu about making a video 

I think she put it all down in the pdf tutorial rather well. It's pretty detailed with photos and written instruction. To me, it is way better than a video.

[bapgood]

I agree with Mamu and Breaktru

I will also add, if you don't understand Mamu's very clear and simple step by step tutorial then you should start doing research both reading and video and figure out the ins and outs before you even attempt a build. Regardless if you find a video or etc. Because there are a number of things that you need to be aware of, for your safety as well as others.

Plus it wouldn't have hurt to be courteous and thank Mamu for both giving you the link and her efforts in making the tutorial, regardless if it wasn't exactly what you wanted.

The more people keep overreaching and disrespecting the greats like Mamu, Breaktru and etc. the less great information that they and others like them are going to provide, and everyone suffers.

[xnuge]

i do thank mamu for sharing some of this information so thanks 

[mamu]

Thank you for this tutorial mamu, it made me think I could do it! 
Well, try.

I'm sorry, I just saw your post, deftones. 

YW!  You can do it, it's not a difficult build for a new modder - just take it slow and easy and be careful when working with the lipoly batts and don't short them. 

[deftones]

Hope it won't be difficult for an electronic noob like me, but I doubt it. Will share the result here if you want, I mean if there's a result to show. 
Lipo batts scares me! 

I'll go for IMR. 

[Doug_xx2]

I had a few questions

I am currently working on a my DNA 30 mod and I was looking at the tutorial pdf mamu posted a link to for the dna 20 mod. I Had a couple questions.

First question Is it safe for the screen to be taped to the board of the DNA 30 in the manner shown (t will not heat up enough to ruin it)?

Second the spec sheet I have for the 30 calls for 20 gauge wire on the battery and output as the ideal but then gives ranges with a minimum and maximum size.

I happen to have 22 gauge solid and twisted strand wire on hand. Will I have problems with that size? I do see the spec sheet says that the minimum battery wire should be 22 gauge and the minimum output size should be 24 gauge. I know I am within the tolerances listed but should I be concerned about being on the bottom end of the sizes required for output and battery wiring?

Third I am using two VTC4 18650's wired in parallel. They are good to 30 Amps and 3.7V and have 2200mAh each. Will they be OK for this build in that configuration?

Do you know if the DNA charging board will be sufficient to charge them both?

*I figured out where the fuses go but not why two in series though*
*Also I am a little confused are you supposed to be fusing the red wire on the usb charger circuit or the red wire going from the battery to the dna board (and why two fuses in series like that?)

Thanks in advance for the help

[mamu]

I was just getting ready to reply to your PM and saw this.  I think these types of questions are great to be posted and shared rather than through PMs. 

<First question Is it safe for the screen to be taped to the board of the DNA 30 in the manner shown (t will not heat up enough to ruin it)?>

The screen is fine taped to the back of the board and the board doesn't heat that would affect the screen.  In the Milo build, I used double-sided mounting tape between the screen and the board.  Alternatively, you could use double-sided foam tape if you want a bit of a cushion between the screen and board.  Your option as long as the screen is secured and not able to flop about.

<Second the spec sheet I have for the 30 calls for 20 gauge wire on the battery and output as the ideal but then gives ranges with a minimum and maximum size.>

You shouldn't have issues with 22ga.  However, if you're going to be running the DNA30 at high power and high amps, 20ga would be a better choice for input/output.

<Third I am using two VTC4 18650's wired in parallel. They are good to 30 Amps and 3.7V and have 2200mAh each. Will they be OK for this build in that configuration?>

Dual 18650 batts in parallel are aok.  You will need a larger case than Milo as dual 18650 batts won't fit.

<Do you know if the DNA charging board will be sufficient to charge them both?>

Evolv's charging board is fine for dual 18650 batts, it will just take longer to charge is all.

<Also I am a little confused are you supposed to be fusing the red wire on the usb charger circuit or the red wire going from the battery to the dna board (and why two fuses in series like that?)>

The charging circuit is not fused, the batt + is fused.

The fuses are not in series, they are in parallel, and we do that to cut the fuses resistance in half so the fuse's internal resistance doesn't affect the circuit or voltage drop under load as much. 

For best protection and safety, fuse each batt independently.  I know this is different from what I showed in the Milo tutorial, but we've had a lot of discussion lately on what's best.

For the DNA30, you will need a single 6A fuse wired to each batt + if using dual parallel batts (or 2x 3A fuses wired to each batt +).  For the DNA30 you're looking for a total of 12A hold current.

There's a thread here titled Wiring PTC Fuses in the Battery sub, you should take the time to read it as there is a lot of valuable and informative discussion on fuses.

[Doug_xx2]

Thank you thank you thank you.I got my boards and switches in the mail today and I was busily going to work on my box to make the 18650's fit and I cutting wire and such and thought to stop and see if there was anything I had overlooked while I charged my dremel tool. Glad I did. I had completely overlooked fusing the board from the batteries. For some reason I was thinking it should handle things on it's own. I appreciate the  advice and I will look into that thread. As far as the tape thing I had visions of melted tape everywhere or worse yet smoke and flames . Thanks again!!

[Doug_xx2]

nm read first ask later read first ask later lol ....

You already answered me...



"For example, the max output power for the DNA30 is 30W.  At 80% efficiency that's a total of 36W.  Min input voltage for the DNA30 is 3.2v.  Using Craig's equation: 36W / 3.2v = 11.25A.  The datasheet for the DNA30 states max input current is 12A - which is pretty close to the result of Craig's equation.  For the DNA30 then a 12A fuse would be appropriate."



Oh wait I am using a bar across the positive and a separate bar across the negative and a wire running from each bar to the board .3 ohms from bar to board might shorten it up and try to get it down to .2 ohms is that too much and what fuse do you think I should use in this config? Still just 2 16 Volt 6 Amp in parallel? and will auto mini fuses work?

[doobedoobedo]

Not so much tutorials, more 'this is what I did', but a good resource for those who want/need video: http://www.vapourtrails.tv/?s=tin+your+tip

[CraigHB]

That 80% is a worst case, the DNA is actually somewhat better than that so if you look at max ouptut of 30W, It's prbably more like 33 Watts input.  Then I'm sure that spec is padded a bit to provide some margin of tolerance.  That's why the specs state 12A.  Quality converters are close to 90% efficient at maximal loads, but cheaply made ones can be a lot lower.

You want to try to keep insertion resistance under 10 mOhms.  In other words, the extra amount of resistance you add inserting stuff in between the board and the power supply.  With a couple of good quality fuses and even an additional MOSFET for reverse polarity protection, it should be possible to do that. 

You have to seek out fuses (and transistors) that have extra low resistance.  The common ones tend to be be 20 to 30 mOhms.  You can find ones with a 5 to 20 mOhm range and two of them in parallel will get resistance well under 10 mOhms.  They usually state a range on resistance and it always seems to be right in the middle when I actually measure them.

[Kejserjorn]

Hi all,

I'm new here, and never did any modding before, but this forum made me confident that I could do it - so thank You all

I just finished wiring my very first DNA30 build, and after some initial problems with the up and down buttons, it seems to be working now. BUT one thing is totally wrong, ald I just can't seem to figure out why it is happening:

No matter what wattage I set it to, it outputs with the same Voltage - and it is high! It is 6.5 Volts with a 1.5 Ohm atty, and 5.8 Volts with a 1.2 Ohm Atty. Does anyone know what could be wrong? Im certain that the wiring is correct, they are made from Mamus' tutorials (Thanks Mamu), And I'm using 2 18650 batteries in series, so the input voltage should be ok. The resistance readings are spot on, so I just don't get why it acts like this...?

I'm using wired buttons, and the onboard fire button is removed, but I don't see that this should cause any problems.

Thank You

/Kejserjorn

[CraigHB]

The DNA30 uses a single 3.7V cell or mulitple 3.7V cells in parallel.  Two cells in series puts input voltage over the specification for the DNA30.  The DNA30 is a booster so it cannot output a voltage lower than input voltage.   Even so, the voltage of two cells in series is out of spec and can damage the board.  Hopefully you didn't fry it.

[Breaktru]

You said SERIES batteries? They should be PARALLEL

oopps: Craig beat me to it 

[Kejserjorn]

The DNA30 uses a single 3.7V cell or mulitple 3.7V cells in parallel.  Two cells in series puts input voltage over the specification for the DNA30.  The DNA30 is a booster so it cannot output a voltage lower than input voltage.   Even so, the voltage of two cells in series is out of spec and can damage the board.  Hopefully you didn't fry it.

Ouch! I will test it right away!

[CraigHB]

Hopefully the board is tolerant to that voltage, my own boards would actually be tolerant to 10V input, but the charger controller bites the dust at 7V.  Since the DNA30 does not have a charger controller built-in, it probably can handle it without any component failures.

[Kejserjorn]

Hopefully the board is tolerant to that voltage, my own boards would actually be tolerant to 10V input, but the charger controller bites the dust at 7V.  Since the DNA30 does not have a charger controller built-in, it probably can handle it without any component failures.

It seems to be fine

I have done so much reading about this, that I must have confused myself somehow... 

[CraigHB]

It happens, I've made similar blunders myself and I probably will make them again.  Good to hear the board is none the worse for wear.

[kiorull]

Hello all,

I also have some questions for my upcoming first attempt to modding (the case is still in transit). Do note that this is the first electronics project I do

1. The switches have 4 legs, how do I determine which two are good and I need to wire? (this is the switch in question: http://www.stealthvape.co.uk/image/cache/data/Switches/300g-dna-tactile-switch-500x500.jpg)
2. In case of a battery failure, would it help to have some separation of the DNA30 board and the batteries? Like some 2-3mm metal inbetween them.
3. Can I use normal hot glue instead of epoxy for the USB and DNA boards (and electronics in general)?
4. Anyone has any suggestion for the aluminium box finish? I would like some rubbery finish as the phone cases, but am not sure what to use (had liquid rubber suggested, but I can find only liquid rubber "sealant")

Thanks everyone for the patience that you have with new people

[CraigHB]

4 wire (or pad) tactiles have two terminals in common.  It's only for structural reasons not electrical ones.  Usually it's the side terminals, but you can tell for sure with an ohmmeter. 

If a battery fails, it's typically a pretty violent event.  There's probably nothing you can do in terms of the enclosure other than vent holes to mitigate the hazard at all.

As far as isolating the battery, it depends on the battery.  For a LiPo, you want to protect the cell case from any damage that could occur through a PCB failure or any other external threat.  The case for a LiPo is just a thick foil and an ugly battery failure can result if compromised.  A few layers of masking tape followed by Kapton tape works well for that.  It's what I use when mounting my boards over a LiPo.

For round cells, they have a steel shell so they are not vulnerable to damage, but you want to add a layer of protection for the circuit board in case the shrink wrap on the cell deteriorates and a component or trace makes contact with the metal can of the cell.  A thin plastic sheet should be sufficient for that, but there's other things you can do as well.  I would not use a metal separator since it would defeat the purpose.

The main concern with any glue and electronics is that some can be corrosive to the circuit traces and solder connections on the board.  There's also an issue of conductance or capacitance a glue may introduce, but the vast majority do not have an issue there.  There are silicone glues and epoxies designed to be neutral for electronics, but you can't assume they all are.  Epoxy is generally neutral and so is hot glue, but you should verify that.

[Boonos]

<Also I am a little confused are you supposed to be fusing the red wire on the usb charger circuit or the red wire going from the battery to the dna board (and why two fuses in series like that?)>

The charging circuit is not fused, the batt + is fused.

The fuses are not in series, they are in parallel, and we do that to cut the fuses resistance in half so the fuse's internal resistance doesn't affect the circuit or voltage drop under load as much. 

For best protection and safety, fuse each batt independently.  I know this is different from what I showed in the Milo tutorial, but we've had a lot of discussion lately on what's best.

For the DNA30, you will need a single 6A fuse wired to each batt + if using dual parallel batts (or 2x 3A fuses wired to each batt +).  For the DNA30 you're looking for a total of 12A hold current.

There's a thread here titled Wiring PTC Fuses in the Battery sub, you should take the time to read it as there is a lot of valuable and informative discussion on fuses.

I checked out the 'Wiring PTC' thread, thanks theres lots of helpful info there (although a lot of it is over my head).

I'm using a single cell 18650 with a DNA 30. I understand i need a 12A fuse. I would like one of the smaller SMD types rather than the larger legged ones, but i can't find any. You mentioned its preferable to use 2x 6A fuses then solder the 2 fuses together in parallel to lower resistance. I'm unsure how to solder 2 fuses together, could you have a look a the picture below please. Is either of them right? lol.

Also, you mentioned you were using 2x 4.5A fuses (http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1210L450SLWR/F5790CT-ND/3661932 in parallel for the DNA30. This totals 9A. Will this be enough for the DNA 30?

i found http://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Littelfuse/20LR600SU/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsxR%252bBXi4wRUCTGuoKQj3D%2fGplLKF1i6qc%3d which have a 6A Hold Current. Would 2 of these be a better option?

Also, these http://au.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=16R600GUvirtualkey57610000virtualkey576-16R600GU but they are on the big side.

And Mamu, thanks so much for writing up all your notes in the fuses thread, its a lot easier for someone like me to digest when its layed out like that.

[mamu]

A is series, B is parallel.

Using either of the fuses you linked will do.  Strap fuses take up less space than the leaded ones.

Here's how I parallel smd and leaded fuses... I just solder them together:

[Boonos]

ah i see, they're stacked on top of each other. thanks

[mamu]

...Also, you mentioned you were using 2x 4.5A fuses (http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1210L450SLWR/F5790CT-ND/3661932 in parallel for the DNA30. This totals 9A. Will this be enough for the DNA 30?

You can go a little under or a little over on Ihold. 

With 2x 4.5A you have 9A hold with a trip of 18A.

I've had no issues with those fuses, but if you're concerned about inadvertent tripping or you run the DNA30 close to max input current, these 7A smd fuses are also a good choice for 2x in parallel with the DNA30: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/2920L700SLPR/F6137CT-ND/4147147

[Boonos]

thanks for the info Mamu

[Visus]

Forum member Dznutz has made a video about wiring the dna20 chip..

[oyoi]

hi guys, can anyone help me with my dna 30 problem. everything works well except in standby mode (display blank) when i immediately pressed firing button (in 7.0W with 1.4 Ohm atty) my dna 30 will fire like it is set to 30W before the display flicker and display welcome screen. after that everything works normal. (this problem only happen when dna 30 in stanby mode or display goes blank) thanks in advance for any opinion. p/s = sorry for my bad english.

attached is the video regarding my problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2tCZHsJht8&feature=youtu.be

[Breaktru]

hi guys, can anyone help me with my dna 30 problem. everything works well except in standby mode (display blank) when i immediately pressed firing button (in 7.0W with 1.4 Ohm atty) my dna 30 will fire like it is set to 30W before the display flicker and display welcome screen. after that everything works normal. (this problem only happen when dna 30 in stanby mode or display goes blank) thanks in advance for any opinion. p/s = sorry for my bad english.

attached is the video regarding my problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2tCZHsJht8&feature=youtu.be

I have never seen that happen before. It looks like a defective DNA30. Contact the mod manufacture for a replacement.

[mamu]

wow and at 7W.  Never have seen anything like that either.

Send it back to the manufacturer as the DNA is defective.

[oyoi]

thanks for the quick response...

one more question. does anyone here know how to hack the dna 30 so that i can change the welcome screen from evolv dna to my own brand name...

thank you

[oyoi]

it's seems like i have to send the dna 30 back to evolv... do they accept it? because i've have soldered all 40 unit and just waiting for the right time to sell it....

 

[JasonV]

My idea is to use a radio-style dial switch as the Watt increase/decrease button. Is this plausible or does the DNA30 chip not accept that style of switch?
I want to try and run a pair of 26650's in parallel, again would the DNA30 allow this or is this too much power?
Also, I want to use a momentary Toggle switch as my fire button, but only one I've found has power output. The DNA30 chip doesn't need the power output so is there a way to wire around it on the switch? It has 3 posts on the bottom, I'm assuming 1 is power but not entirely sure.

[CraigHB]

The first product Evolv offered, the Darwin, used a dial for the wattage selection.  I don't think they maintained that circuitry through the DNA 20 or 30, but maybe.  As far as I know, the controls require the on-off signal of a tactile input so unless a radio switch can provide that, it won't be possible.  It would be possible to emulate the effect a dial control with some addiitional circuitry, but that's probably more involved that what you're looking to do.

You can run two 26650s in parallel if you like.  It will not be an issue for the DNA30.  If anything it will help performance rather than hinder it.

You can use two of the three terminals on a double throw single pole momentary switch to operate the fire control.  Should be the center terminal and one of the outside ones.  Shouldn't matter which one, but that will determine the direction required to fire the atomizer.

[slayedheart]

Hi I'd like to ask if a single aw 18350 battery would be enough to power a dna30 chip? I am into.stealth vapingThankyou in advance.

[Breaktru]

Hi I'd like to ask if a single aw 18350 battery would be enough to power a dna30 chip? I am into.stealth vapingThankyou in advance.

The datasheet on the DNA 30 states: Any battery used should be rated for a MINIMUM of 12 amps continuous discharge current.

You won't find that with an 18350.
Check out the eFest 18500 15A battery: HERE
The 18500 is longer than an 18350 but shorter than an 18650

[slayedheart]

The datasheet on the DNA 30 states: Any battery used should be rated for a MINIMUM of 12 amps continuous discharge current.

You won't find that with an 18350.
Check out the eFest 18500 15A battery: HERE
The 18500 is longer than an 18350 but shorter than an 18650

Thank you sir

[CraigHB]

Yes, 18500 would be the smallest you could go.  You can make a fairly stealthy mod with a chopped dual 18650 box, battery on one side, electronics on the other.

[JasonV]

Another question, is epoxy my only option to hold everything down? Could I use clear caulk? If epoxy is my only option, would 5-minute general epoxy work or do I need an electric epoxy?

[CraigHB]

You can use silicone sealant which is what caulks are mainly, but you have to be careful using caulk like you would buy to seal your bathtub.  That stuff can have issues for electronics.  GE general purpose glue and sealant is silicone based and should be fine for electronics (link). 

You can buy silicone glue made especially for electronics, but it's expensive and not easy to find (link).  Probably not really necessary. 

You can use 5 minute epoxy as well.  Should not be a problem for electrical stuff.

[piper1]

I hope you don't mind but could someone help me out please, it's regarding fuses for a DNA 30 mod.

 The more I read about them the more I become confused.
 What size fuse would I need to run a single 18650 battery on a DNA 30 chip.

 Thank you

[Jasen]

I hope you don't mind but could someone help me out please, it's regarding fuses for a DNA 30 mod.

 The more I read about them the more I become confused.
 What size fuse would I need to run a single 18650 battery on a DNA 30 chip.

 Thank you

Your best bet is to always read the datasheet for verification of specs as both mouser and digikey sometimes list inaccurate specs.

Mouser listed the max resistance post trip state - that's misleading to do that as post trip current will always be quite high. 

MINISMDC260F/16-2: http://www.te.com/catalog/pn/en/RF1184-000
    Vmax (V) = 16
    Imax (A) = 100
    IH (Room Temperature) (A) = 2.6
    IT (Room Temperature) (A) = 5.00
    Rmin (ohm) = 0.015
    R1 Max [Post Trip] (ohm) = 0.05


For the DNA30 2x in parallel for each batt = 7.5 mOhm per batt and 4x fuses (2 per batt) = 3.75 mOhm total.

2.6A Ihold x 4 = 10.4A.  5A Itrip x 4 = 20A. 

Ihold is the maximum current that the fuse will allow to pass without tripping (10.4A).  Itrip is the minimum current at which the fuse will trip (20A).

The only issue you may have here, fullthrown, with using a lower Ihold total a bit less than the max input current of the DNA30 is a slight increase in resistance from the fuse IF running the DNA above 10A.

But with 4x fuses you have a current cushion of 10.4A - 20A before the fuse will actually trip. 

I've been using this fuse with the DNA20 this past year and now with the DNA30.  Haven't had any issues with inadvertent tripping from the 2.6A Ihold.  Course, I don't push 10A either.  I'm a weeny at around 5A. 

[piper1]

Thank you for the reply Jasen.