Author Topic: OKR T/10 Pass Through (Read 17672 times)

thejewk · « **on:** May 29, 2014, 10:16:27 AM »

The Zub, an OKR T/10 pass through for some at home vaping. After making my 2x18650 OKR I haven't touched another mod, so thought a small version for at home would be a sensible build.

IMG_0258 by thejewk, on Flickr

IMG_0259 by thejewk, on Flickr

IMG_0260 by thejewk, on Flickr

IMG_0261[1] by thejewk, on Flickr

Case is a bit rough, but I'm going to wrap it I think. I absolutely hate sanding and working on finishes, and this will probably be my last project in an unpainted box. I will buy them painted in the future and cut out the hassle altogether.

The only annoying part is that the power supply that I got for it doesn't work... Contacted the ebayer and I'm waiting to hear back.

I was able to check that everything is dandy by plugging it into a 4amp supply, but I don't want to actually fire it with an atty on until I have a 10 amp supply ready to go.

thejewk · « **Reply #1 on:** June 12, 2014, 11:27:05 AM »

This mod has turned out to be a real pain in the backside. Went through 2 power supplies, neither of which worked, and then when I finally got a working power supply, 12v 10a, the mod worked for a very short period of time and then stopped working altogether.

I have now stripped everything down and exposed all of the components so that I can test to see where the problem is. Power is being sent to Pin 2, the resistor and trimmer pot are giving the correct readings, the ground is fine, but now the chip isn't putting anything out at Pin 4.

Does that sound like a dud chip to you guys?

I will de-solder the power connection to the atty and replace the wire to see if there is a problem there, but other than that I am out of ideas.

I do have a PTR08100WVD kicking about thankfully, and I have the required caps as well, so I should be able to get it up and running if the OKR is the problem, but I really don't know what could have caused the issue in the first place.

Any ideas?

Many thanks
Stu

Visus · « **Reply #2 on:** June 12, 2014, 01:15:44 PM »

I run my passthru with a 08100 no caps 500ohm pot simple. Not a single issue in almost a year now.

I use a 5v 4 amp delta electronics adapter ac/dc. I also have another that runs off a 12v 300watt rail - never use it, the 5v 4a converter is underated it runs up to 7 amps no issue for it or warmth at that ac adapter or 08100. Above 7a the converter squeals but I never run it above 5-6a so all is well.

@5.2v output the 08100 will out put 4.9v..

My chip has been dropped a zillion times etc.. Sounds like you got a bad chip.

thejewk · « **Reply #3 on:** June 12, 2014, 01:21:53 PM »

Thanks visus. I started blaming myself initially because I am fairly new to this lark but I have checked twice and thrice and can see no error. I will crack on this evening while the wife and her co conspirators reign downstairs.

thejewk · « **Reply #4 on:** June 12, 2014, 04:09:02 PM »

Works fine with the ptr and I ended up using the caps as they were there to be used. Vaping away beautifully.

Visus · « **Reply #5 on:** June 12, 2014, 05:13:47 PM »

Break noticed with caps batts have better run times with the 4050 so I used that info and said self no need for em on a passthru hoping I was correct lol. Turns out I was, running gewd used all day everyday.. Have worn out two cheap 510 connectors tho-- old ego heads

.. I use caps on batt mods only.. I even have a 4050 on a pt with no caps it also is running fine, fingers crossed, I dont use that one much either cause bad ego head on it, was main pt, now dusty cause lazy. IMO boosters blow step downs away in vape quality.. Unfortunate no powerful hobby boosters except proprietary or needing more brain like this new one Craig is builds...

thejewk · « **Reply #6 on:** June 12, 2014, 05:19:30 PM »

I think my next project is going to be a boost as I haven't done one yet. Thinking an sx350 with 2x18650 and chunky wire for use of the bypass mode. Regulated and unregulated in one box sounds too good to pass up.

CraigHB · « **Reply #7 on:** June 12, 2014, 06:04:57 PM »

I don't know, there really should not be any difference between buck and boost as far as vaping experience. I mean they both put out the same power in the same way. The only difference is one coverts up and the other converts down.

Visus · « **Reply #8 on:** June 12, 2014, 07:01:42 PM »

There really is I can vape a 1 ohm on 08100 the at same volts on the 4050 its richer and soupier and smoother.

Highly noticeably different. I have caps on/off both modules resulting in same results. boost>buck.. I even adjust for vdrop, the 4050 which has no v drop to the v-drop of the 08100, its something about the boost. Same wiring same switches etc etc.. Maybe its the frequency just of these two modules 300k 08100 vs 450-600k 4050 .. In the future are adding the recommended 22uf caps on 8100 out to see if that makes a difference. Long way down the road I have other builds and they work flawlessly for now but I will.. I like tuning shiz to perfection per se', specifically now that I have grasp.

I was going to ask ya Craig what freq you will choose for your new mod I saw it has a select-able range..

CraigHB · « **Reply #9 on:** June 12, 2014, 08:00:41 PM »

Quote from: Visus on June 12, 2014, 07:01:42 PM

I was going to ask ya Craig what freq you will choose for your new mod I saw it has a select-able range.

Initially I was going to run the switching speed at 1MHz which is high but it allows me to use an inductor small enough to fit in my enclosure while minimizing resistive losses. An inductor is simply a wire coil around a ferrous core so if the wire is thicker or shorter, there's less wasted power. Thicker wire means a physically bigger inductor with less resistance. Shorter wire means less inductance with less resistance without an increase in size. Since I'm capped at size I can only reduce inductance which has to be compensated with a higher switching frequency.

Increasing switching frequency is a double edge sword. The downside is that a higher frequency is less efficienct since switching losses increase the faster the switches cycle. It takes an amount of power to open and close the switches and the faster they cycle, the more power it takes. I've been doing some simulation runs with a frequency of 850KHz which reduces switching losses a bit and still allows me to use the smaller inductor. It's just part of the normal tuning you do with any converter design, trading this for that.

Visus · « **Reply #10 on:** June 13, 2014, 08:03:23 PM »

I had assumed the faster the signal the cleaner the output.

I watched avideo on youtube of a test between 100k---1m freq and it was an eye opener to your double edged sword statement wow noisy and calm at different rise and fall of frequencies some frequencies so calm ya dont need much clean up and some vicious. lol

Heres the video if interested..

CraigHB · « **Reply #11 on:** June 13, 2014, 08:51:16 PM »

That's an interesting video demonstrating the effects of an LCR circuit. The difference is he's using a lot of capacitance and a lot of inductance to get the low resonant frequencies. All electrical circuits have inductance, capacitance, and resistance so they all can resonate like that. The difference is the frequency is much higher for a circuit that does not actually have inductors and capacitors in it.

One thing he's not showing is what's happening to the current flow which is also interesting. As you see the magnitude of the voltage increasing and decreasing the current shifts to the left and right, formally known as a phase shift. When the voltage peaks the current shifts quickly from one side to the other.

The circuit formed by the inductor and output capacitors in a switching converter is a classic LCR circuit and that's why they have to be tuned for stability. On their own, they'll hit that resonant frequency at some point and destabilize. You have to compensate the feedback to eliminate those instabilities.

In mathematical EE speak, those instabilities are called "poles" since they appear as zeros in the bottom of a fraction. If you remember from elementary math, a zero in the bottom of a fraction is not a defined number. The term for that in physics is a singularity.

Visus · « **Reply #12 on:** June 13, 2014, 10:12:31 PM »

I might be way off but,-@60hz/0-sorta how a three phase motor creates its own ground..

That always giggled me hooking up motors -- get the wires out of phase and it confuses noobs and veterans alike when hooking em up..

CraigHB · « **Reply #13 on:** June 14, 2014, 06:16:15 AM »

High power motors have a ton of inductance, but not much capacitance so they don't really have any resonance issues at low frequencies. They have their own set of headaches. But yeah, getting the phase wrong on the windings will give you big problems. The inductance does make the phase shift a good amount and the windings are 120 degrees apart so you can end up creating a short. Though we should probably should stop digging this thread into the dirt with the off topic stuff.

thejewk · « **Reply #14 on:** June 14, 2014, 10:46:31 AM »

By all means carry on! No idea what you're talking about but it sure sounds interesting lol.

thejewk · « **Reply #15 on:** June 19, 2014, 06:56:30 AM »

Tarted it up with a nice finish and a fat daddy sprung loaded connector:

IMG_0276 by thejewk, on Flickr

I'm pretty pleased with how it came out!

vaperkarma · « **Reply #16 on:** June 19, 2014, 09:21:37 AM »

Quote from: thejewk on June 19, 2014, 06:56:30 AM

Tarted it up with a nice finish and a fat daddy sprung loaded connector:

I'm pretty pleased with how it came out!

Looks great. What pass-thru supply did you use?

thejewk · « **Reply #17 on:** June 22, 2014, 08:24:47 AM »

Sorry mate didn't see that post until now. I ended up with a Channel Well 12v 10a supply and it's been great so far.

JUICYOHMS · « **Reply #18 on:** August 07, 2014, 01:35:56 PM »

Hello All, What an awesome Forum...

OKRT10 PASSTHROUGH HELP!

Can someone please point me in the right direction of an efficient setup & maybe a parts list to build an OKRT10 Passthrough...I already have everything to build a Battery powered setup, so I'm doing away with the zener, dual 18650 holder & using a smaller enclosure.

I'm mainly interested to know what the best power supply I can use for the best price on a budget is and/or what you all have used that will work nicely.

Also any other part numbers for the correct power jack/additional parts needed and are there any differences I should account for besides removing the zener & battery sled & adding the power jack & power supply.

What voltage/amp supply will I need etc...and do I still keep the same value pull down, pot, & the other various small parts the same.

Thanks to All & Cheers...

CraigHB · « **Reply #19 on:** August 07, 2014, 05:11:30 PM »

Use a 12V 5A power supply. They're pretty much a dime a dozen. Do a search on "12V 5A power supply" and you'll see a ton of them. Fasttech and eBay are good places to look.

The most common connectors used for higher currents are the barrel type. Ready to use power supplies typically have that type of connector on them;

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10811

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11476

Visus · « **Reply #20 on:** August 08, 2014, 12:03:29 AM »

If ya want an absolutely barebones passthru. I have been using mine for a year now everyday most of the day no problems 0%

Thats a C&K Normally Open pushbutton 3 amps works fine, recommended by Break and others on the forum..220 resistor to 200 ohm pot-- 3.4ish to 6.2ish volts

I do not have an on/off on mine but if ya want it..

very crude drawing

Revised drawing

Do Not Use! correct schematic drawing by Craighb below..

CraigHB · « **Reply #21 on:** August 08, 2014, 06:48:49 PM »

You really need the 220 Ohm resistor - 200 Ohm pot combo there. The problem is if you turn the pot full swing, you can take the voltage adjustment pin to ground which full swings the regulator to unbounded output voltage. It's bounded internally by duty cycle, but it's possible to damage the regulator that way.

Another suggestion is the unused pin on the pot should be tied off with the the lead going to the regulator. The reason is that if there's ever any intermittent connectivity with the pots' wiper (which can happen due to wear), there will still be some resistance in that line. Leaving the unused pot terminal floating is probably not ever going to cause a reliability issue for the regulator, but it's better in principle to tie it off.

mrbump82 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 08, 2014, 07:50:02 PM »

I've been using mine connected to my atx power supply it has an amp limit of 25 amp. I just added a 1/4 inch mono Jack to my box mod. When I get home j take the batteries out and just plug it in

Visus · « **Reply #23 on:** August 09, 2014, 01:09:50 AM »

Quote from: CraigHB on August 08, 2014, 06:48:49 PM

You really need the 220 Ohm resistor - 200 Ohm pot combo there. The problem is if you turn the pot full swing, you can take the voltage adjustment pin to ground which full swings the regulator to unbounded output voltage. It's bounded internally by duty cycle, but it's possible to damage the regulator that way.

Another suggestion is the unused pin on the pot should be tied off with the the lead going to the regulator. The reason is that if there's ever any intermittent connectivity with the pots' wiper (which can happen due to wear), there will still be some resistance in that line. Leaving the unused pot terminal floating is probably not ever going to cause a reliability issue for the regulator, but it's better in principle to tie it off.

All of what you says there makes sense and bummer now re-doing

, thanks, how do you tie off pin 1.
.
http://www.murata-ps.com/datasheet?http://www.murata-ps.com/data/power/okr-t10-w12.pdf

CraigHB · « **Reply #24 on:** August 09, 2014, 03:13:02 PM »

Quote from: Visus on August 09, 2014, 01:09:50 AM

how do you tie off pin 1

Terms like "tie-off" and "float" can be misleading, it's just another way of saying connected or disconnected. Sorry about that. Just connect the unused pin to the middle wiper pin.

Visus · « **Reply #25 on:** August 09, 2014, 09:17:54 PM »

Thanks Craig you EE guys build for positive occurrence always so uber thanks..

Revised the very crude hack picture draw lol,

Revising mods when solder is delivered, all out

100g of 2% ra flux 63/37 .85mm from fasttech hoping it's decent.

CraigHB · « **Reply #26 on:** August 10, 2014, 08:13:11 PM »

Wire it like the attached diagram assuming you're using the "E" version part, there's an enable/disable logic option. Might as well use the on/off pin (#1) since it allows the use of a low current fire switch. Also the master switch is probably not necessary, but I put it in there anyway. For the standard part (OKR-T/10-W12-C), you can just float pin 1 and make the master the fire switch or add a pull-down resistor on pin 1.