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Online Breaktru

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New DNA 40 with temperature control
« on: September 30, 2014, 03:45:00 PM »
I have been involved with the Evolv Beta Group on Facebook thanks to our buddy bapgood. Thanks buddy.
I really can't get into specifics about it as yet but I have to say that this new board is a game changer.



update:
The DNA 40 is now released at: http://evolvapor.com/shop.php

Specs: http://evolvapor.com/datasheet/dna40.pdf





« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 09:20:42 AM by Breaktru »

Offline CraigHB

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Re: New DNA
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2014, 03:59:53 PM »
They always do seem to come up with the innovative stuff.  If I had to guess I'd say it's something to do with coil temperature.

Offline Visus

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Re: New DNA
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2014, 12:48:42 AM »
Come on Break theres always a leak be the leaker lol

China just sent Break 1 million rice patty  and a hula hoop to leak it lol

I saw gdeal's on ecf, its an uber sweet wood bottom fed he used for it , his is at .06ohm

Awesome but wow a .06 and .07 ohm coils must be using very thick gauge to get any surface area   :thumbsup:


Offline ambivalent

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Re: New DNA
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2014, 09:42:13 AM »
i'm really interested to know the parameters within which this measures coil temperature,  if indeed that is what it does do.  As surely it would need to know coil material/mass/surface area to volume ratio, to give any accurate measurement. Specific heat capacity of a coil with a given resistance can vary wildly depending on how it is wound.  Perhaps it has a blue tooth link up to an app for coil data input or something?  I can't see how it can make any accurate assessment of temperature from just currant/voltage/resistance info.

Online Breaktru

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Re: New DNA
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2014, 11:43:45 AM »
It shouldn't be too long before Evolv makes a public announcement of their new board. I have been testing the beta version as well as the other folks in the FB Evolv Beta Group and have also received a production board. Until that time, I am sworn to secrecy.

Offline Visus

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Re: New DNA
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2014, 12:59:43 PM »
i'm really interested to know the parameters within which this measures coil temperature,  if indeed that is what it does do.  As surely it would need to know coil material/mass/surface area to volume ratio, to give any accurate measurement. Specific heat capacity of a coil with a given resistance can vary wildly depending on how it is wound.  Perhaps it has a blue tooth link up to an app for coil data input or something?  I can't see how it can make any accurate assessment of temperature from just currant/voltage/resistance info.

One thing we can tell is that if resident opps at 4.2v its more than 300 watts capable.

Whats strange,  all the preview pics are 24.2watts and very low ohms.  I just read a new type mosfet mod  post on here about  how difficult reading milliohms are so maybe we have a preview already in that post.  That right there is maybe awesome..

My guess is that Evolv are aliens


Offline Visus

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Re: New DNA
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2014, 07:48:27 PM »
Vaporjoe's just released a small teaser saying only 40 watts.
It will be named the dna40

So it goes up to 26 amps and 1.5v to fire a coil at .06ohms

Ti has some chips that do exactly that low v and huge amps -- this does change the thinking process allowing uber thick gauge coils, with up to 96% efficiency.. :thumbsup:

Maybe time for a new build with this kind of set up  :yes"


http://www.ti.com/product/PTR08060W/compare#p2954=Surface Mount Module;Through-Hole Module&p238min=2.2;6&p451max=20;60



Offline mrbump82

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Re: New DNA
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2014, 10:54:34 PM »
I've seen one of these in person you pretty much ignore everything on that screen except for that temp I'm so jealous cause my buddy got in on the beta

Offline Visus

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Offline Visus

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Re: New DNA
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2014, 01:32:11 AM »
Just finished watching.

Its pretty cool.  Totally not what I thought it may be but yeah
vaping with a temp setting is great for when I smoke da carbolyzed herb mon'.   :laughing2:

The best is I vape ss mesh and it will definitely let me know of a shorted coil that happens after initial setup sometimes by spiking the temp.

I like that it will fire a .16ohm at 40 watts that some power there...  It will even fire .06 but limits power..  But wow
Nothing out in vapeland regulated  does that other than our hobby mods..

gimme  :thumbsup:

Hey Brandon if ya read this,  a lil charity for a retired, disabled, sorta veteran, guy here. Oh yeah I am addicted to cheese popcorn too..

Offline ambivalent

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Re: New DNA
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2014, 05:50:56 AM »
Interesting stuff. First question that pops into my head is what happens to battery life when you run it temperature protected, since the resistance has to soooo low?

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Re: New DNA
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2014, 07:34:35 AM »
Interesting stuff. First question that pops into my head is what happens to battery life when you run it temperature protected, since the resistance has to soooo low?

Says it has 93% eff but at 15A thats gonna do some battery hogging Break can now chat about it  woot woot

I just read a disappointing article on nickle's use.

Wondering why they didn't use stainless steel or can SS be substituted..

Online Breaktru

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Re: New DNA 40
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2014, 07:52:56 AM »
Says it has 93% eff but at 15A thats gonna do some battery hogging Break can now chat about it  woot woot


Wondering why they didn't use stainless steel or can SS be substituted..

Stainless Steel doesn't work. Mamu has tried it.
Ni200 - Pure Nickel wire no resistance wire only.
Works great. No more dry hits. I have tried 32, 30, 28 and 26 gauge Ni200 on it.
The minimum recommended resistance for Ni200 coils is 0.10 ohms and the min resistance for Kanthal is 0.16 ohms.

Using Ni200 will allow you to use the Temperature mode. When using Kanthal the display will show voltage and not temperature.

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Re: New DNA 40
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2014, 07:22:17 AM »
Some people have asked about the concerns of using pure nickel wire for coils. Here is what Brandon of Evolv has posted in the Facebook beta group:

OK so John and I have been seeing quite a few emails concerned with the Nickel wire used with the DNA 40. We decided to write a response that I think may be interesting to all of you. Feelfree to steal from it any or all parts to drive away the hypothetical Nickel boggeyman

Original email:
Hi, Off the back of your announcement today of the new DNA 40 board and it's ability to control the temperature of a nickel coil, there has been much concern on vaping forums about the use of nickel wire as a coil. Here is an exert of some of the comments: "Bad, bad idea. Look up the toxicology of nickel and ask if you want to heat that and inhale the result. I won't. " "Nickel is relatively chemically unreactive to some things, but not to others. It reacts very rapidly with carbon monoxide. And nickel carbonyl is really evil crap. And heating any organic flavour is going to resul in some carbon monoxide production. " "So in your opinion using nickel or nichrome as heating wire for vaping is dangerous? I don't know enough about it to judge if you're right or wrong. I hope you're wrong because I think this about to be the next big thing in vaping. This technology is going to start popping up in mass market devices very soon and some premade atties are going to come with nickel rather than nichrome. " Are you able to allay any of these concerns over using nickel wire? Is there a specific type or grade of nickel we use? Does nickel wire pose any more harm than Kanthal A1? Kind regards

Our response:
We agree Nickel Carbonyl is truly evil crap. Fortunately, there isn't any here.

Point 1: We aren't generating carbon monoxide. The whole point of temperature protection is to, well, protect from elevated temperatures. Heating doesn't generate carbon monoxide. You have to be getting combustion or pyrolysis. And you have to be combusting in a fuel-rich (less oxygen that stoichiometric) environment. Like a cigarette. We never get anywhere near combustion temperature, and even if we did (say, one turned the temperature limit up to 2000 degrees) the environment in an atomizer is oxygen rich, not fuel rich. So you would get carbon dioxide, not monoxide. To get pyrolytic decomposition of the fluid into carbon monoxide and hydrogen, we would want a coil temperature of about 1500F and you'd need to have it sealed off from air completely.

Point 2: If this was a problem, we would have already seen it. The Mond process you describe (nickel ore to nickel carbonyl to nickel metal) is how one refines nickel from ore. The commercial coils are already 80% nickel and run at higher temperatures when they dry out. If we were getting nickel carbonyl production, that would refine the nickel out and we would end up with a porous wire with only 20% chromium left. That's not what happens.

Point 3: Given that all the real research, vapor analysis and long term studies that have been done to this point have been done with commercial cigalikes, all of which use nichrome coils (80% nickel and not at all protected from overheating) if there was a substance as toxic as nickel carbonyl in the vapor, the anti-ecig forces would be screaming that from every rooftop. Nobody has found any, even in devices that aren't temperature controlled. One study did find some metallic nickel and metallic chromium from pitting in the vapor steam, so they were obviously looking for metallic compounds.

I'm attaching the Goniewicz research paper which is one often cited by those on both sides of the e-cigarette safety debate. The study looked at products using nichrome heating coils. And yes, they measured nickel. The study also looked for carbon monoxide in the vapor stream and found none. Zero. The following excerpt is from the study:

"The amounts of toxic metals and aldehydes in e-cigarettes are trace amounts and are comparable with amounts contained in an examined therapeutic product."

Dr. Michael Siegel said of the Goniewicz paper:

"The most important finding in this study (that the authors failed to acknowledge) was that all of the trace levels of metals they found in e-cigarette aerosol were within permissible exposure limits for FDA approved inhalable drugs and devices (e.g. nicotine inhaler, asthma inhalers) per Pharmacopeial Convention."

Basically it boils down to anything a Nickel 200 coil would do, a nichrome coil would already be doing (and worse due to higher temperatures) and nichrome coils are the only ones that have been studied in any meaningful detail by the real scientists, labs and MDs.

What Kanthal is or is not doing, we cannot say as we haven't really studied it.

What is a problem with the commercially available nickel 200 wire is they use a particularly nasty tasting oil in the drawing process. So if you roll a new coil without degreasing the wire first, you initially get a nasty taste from that oil. A good washing with acetone or simple green, followed by rinsing in water, solves that problem. But that is something to point out if people are reporting weird chemical tastes when they first try it.

Thanks,
Brandon
Evolv, LLC

Offline Visus

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Re: New DNA 40
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2014, 05:57:05 PM »
I use nichrome wire everyday and have not had  a reaction to it.

I finally did my own research after you posted this earlier.  My research says its 200% better than our everyday use of  nichrome 60 or kanthal a1.
It will only break down at temps above 600 degrees so with a temp controller it will not go above 600 degrees making the dna40 a very safe chip for vaping..

Wow this educated vapers giving evolv a bonus cool point.  Dry burning is bad,  and I now understand why my coils look like they do with pitting after a few weeks of use.  I dry burn all the time..

I found a calculator for nichrome and kanthal and it is shocking.  A bare 28 gauge wire at 1.7 ohms only needs 1.6amps to hit 600 degrees @ 4watts..
 At  .1ohm  @ 1.6amps and .4watts 600degrees.  IDK its confusing since finding the calculator since no way of knowing how much airflow, wick, and ejuice value as a heatsink..
http://www.jacobs-online.biz/nichrome/NichromeCalc.html

Thanks Break for adding that convo


How is the vape with it?
Your notes?


Offline miskol

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Re: New DNA 40
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2014, 11:00:22 AM »
at first leak i thought that Evolv would use thermoK wires for measuring temp at the coil, this means that users need to use thermoK cables from the DNA board to the 510 connectors.

but seeing the datasheet and the coil requirement, seems like it basically uses thermoK concept, using a known material with known temperature reaction to the coil material for temperature estimation.

locally i joined a GB for the DNA 40, cant wait to get it soon :)

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Re: New DNA 40
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2014, 11:32:49 AM »

Offline Madyicstik

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Re: New DNA 40
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2014, 09:10:50 AM »
so i got my dna40 board in the mail, has anybody had issues where  power is attached to positive and negative, the board flashed "check atomizer" and displays the wattage rapidly? it seems like pressing the fire button rapidly, any thoughts???? im thinking it might be an issue with the onboard firing button. i have attached my own leads for input output and external tact switches.


can anyone shed some light? i checked, re checked and triple check my wiring and solder and none looks shorted out or touching where its not suppose to touch. of course a picture would have explained my situation better but i wasnt thinking about it 3 hours ago...(4am calgary) 

can the onboard firing button be desoldered?

Online Breaktru

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2014, 09:22:52 AM »
Mady, there were a few display problems due to the mounting of the display to the board.
Look at page 14 of the datasheet --> HERE

Offline Madyicstik

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2014, 09:41:15 AM »
thanks break. ill check that when i get home. i should really look at the data sheet more often, hahha i did not see this the first time tho.

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2014, 11:17:58 AM »
Page 14, Errata was added later on when the problem was discovered.

The reports from users with the ribbon cable on the PCB was that the DNA would freeze or lockup. Another problem was the display would dim or flash.
I have not seen a report of Check Atomizer due to the ribbon cable. Check your 510 connector.

Check Atomizer: The DNA does not detect an atomizer, the atomizer has shorted out, or the atomizer resistance is incorrect for the power setting.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 11:34:45 AM by Breaktru »

Offline Madyicstik

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2014, 02:25:11 PM »
ive located the source of the flashing "check atomizer" screen and it was  the onboard switch... i took it out, it was running great for a bit but now i have the up button issue, it seems like its stuck,  its just max out at 40 watts. has anybody came across the issue? any insight? ive disconnected the tact switch i have and still it  dials its self to 40  watt or at least it wont get out of the 40 watt setting. locking it reverses the screen .

Online Breaktru

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2014, 03:27:30 PM »

Note:
I recall someone on the DNA 40 beta forum mentioning that the on board fire switch needs to be in place to compete the circuit on the PCB.

Offline Madyicstik

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2014, 05:06:09 PM »
I have desoldered the onboard firing switch. I soldered a tact switch on the output leads and it works fine.... Until the wattage up issue came in. Could it be because I took out the onboard button reson why its stuck?

Online Breaktru

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2014, 06:55:22 PM »
I don't know what the result would be but Mike Petro has posted this:

If you are accustomed to snipping off the fire button to save space, you will have to do things differently now. One option is to cut the button off as before then solder 2 jumper wires onto the board. The other option is to just pop the top cover off the switch, removing the button but leaving the base. The reason is because there are 4 terminals on that switch, 2 terminals on each side of the switch are by default an electrical short or path. The board uses this path, so if you totally remove the switch you are breaking the circuit.

Offline Madyicstik

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2014, 09:04:01 AM »
thanks, for some reason, the "stuck" up button seems to be working now, but, my dna40 is doing some funny thing, the resistance display tends to ramp up from a lower resistance to what ever the resistance is of the atty. same thing happens on the wattage setting. ill take a video to show it haha im not good at explaining stuff.

Offline Jakeman02

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2014, 10:50:12 PM »
Slapping myself in the face now. I should have checked for this earlier. I can confirm the on board fire switch needs to be left in place. I just got my 40 in today and removed the switch just like I had on my 20s and 30s and nothing. I've been troubleshooting for hours trying to figure it out then ran across this.

Oh well, live and learn, I'll try to make a jumper somehow but with that small area it's pretty safe to say this one is toast. I'll give it a shot though.

Offline Littlefeather

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2014, 11:35:25 PM »
Slapping myself in the face now. I should have checked for this earlier. I can confirm the on board fire switch needs to be left in place. I just got my 40 in today and removed the switch just like I had on my 20s and 30s and nothing. I've been troubleshooting for hours trying to figure it out then ran across this.

Oh well, live and learn, I'll try to make a jumper somehow but with that small area it's pretty safe to say this one is toast. I'll give it a shot though.

It's not toast! This is how I jumped the switch contacts. I used some copper tape from my scale miniature days and carefully backed it with kapton tape. It's very doable.

http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/Littlefeather_Design/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Amp%20Mod/AMPOnBoardSwitchRemoved-2_zpsec6f5b38.jpg.html?sort=6&o=11

Offline Jakeman02

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2014, 12:26:05 AM »
It's not toast! This is how I jumped the switch contacts. I used some copper tape from my scale miniature days and carefully backed it with kapton tape. It's very doable.

http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/Littlefeather_Design/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Amp%20Mod/AMPOnBoardSwitchRemoved-2_zpsec6f5b38.jpg.html?sort=6&o=11

Thanks much, that looks much more dooable than what I was thinking. I've put it away for tonight, to frustrated. I'll give it shot tomorrow and see how it goes.

Offline Madyicstik

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2014, 09:03:05 AM »
@littlefeather thats is some skillzzzz you got there. what is that material for the  board mount you used called?

Offline Littlefeather

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2014, 09:13:38 AM »
@littlefeather thats is some skillzzzz you got there. what is that material for the  board mount you used called?


Thanks! The material is Canvas Micrata (phenolic) in .093 (3/32) inch thickness. Google it. Very interesting material with excellent weight to strength ratio and is nonconductive. It’s available in many different thicknesses.

Offline Madyicstik

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2014, 09:15:12 AM »
nice. thanks. ill check that out.

Offline VapingBad

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2014, 08:28:35 AM »
Really interesting thread that I wish I had read before building mine, I tried to remove the fire switch by cutting the legs with side cutters but destroyed the positive pads, I put a link between the two negitive pads as I could see under test the were at different voltages.  It seems to work fine except you need to press the fire button after power on to get the board to start, the up/down buttons don't but they do wake it from sleep.  I have a minute bit of track on the right side of the positive (screen connection upward) but nothing on the left does anyone know the next point in the circuit that I could jump a wire from for this?

Offline Littlefeather

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2014, 09:26:43 AM »
Really interesting thread that I wish I had read before building mine, I tried to remove the fire switch by cutting the legs with side cutters but destroyed the positive pads, I put a link between the two negitive pads as I could see under test the were at different voltages.  It seems to work fine except you need to press the fire button after power on to get the board to start, the up/down buttons don't but they do wake it from sleep.  I have a minute bit of track on the right side of the positive (screen connection upward) but nothing on the left does anyone know the next point in the circuit that I could jump a wire from for this?

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. Done it myself!  Doh: While I always love a challenge, sometimes the cost in time and frustration isn't cost effective monetarily or mentally. Education always cost money, and this might be one of those times to concede the cost.

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2014, 09:30:50 AM »
When removing the tactile switch, solder a jumper between A and C and another jumper between B and D


Offline VapingBad

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2014, 11:29:39 AM »
Thanks guys.
The DNA40 works, except it requires a press of the fire switch to turn on after a battery change, I have bridged the negative half of the on the DNA40, but the pads on the positive side de-laminated I can see a very thin track that led to the rhs pad (with screen conn upward) but can not identify what (if anything) connect to the lhs pad.   here is a pic, other way up from my description


Got to run and catach a train noe.

Offline CraigHB

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2014, 06:22:46 PM »
It's probably a 4 layer board and may even be a 6 layer board.  In that case there may be traces on inner layers not visible to inspection.  There's also things called "blind vias" that allow connections to layers without visible vias.  Or, it may be as it appears, just a floating pad.  As two pads are common for each switch connection, only one needs to be utilized.


« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 06:27:38 PM by CraigHB »

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2014, 01:37:04 PM »
Thanks Craig I gave it a good clean with a pic then IPA and could only see the fibre glass substrate where the pad was and the board functions so it seems most likely that it was not connected to anything.  Unless someone knows different I will assume this was the case.   

Do other peoples DNA40s power on after changing the battery without pressing the fire button?

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2014, 09:10:49 AM »
Do other peoples DNA40s power on after changing the battery without pressing the fire button?

Never paid much attention to it until you asked. I just did a battery swap-out and the display remains off until I press the fire button.

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2014, 10:39:14 AM »
Never paid much attention to it until you asked. I just did a battery swap-out and the display remains off until I press the fire button.

Thanks vary much for checking, I fell happy now that it is functioning 100% with just the -ve fire switch pads connected.

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #40 on: October 28, 2014, 08:46:45 AM »
if you hold the down button, it display radom letters and just below the random letter its says "genuine" if this some sort of a serial number????

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #41 on: October 28, 2014, 08:53:43 AM »
nice found! did that and yeah got to see it too

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2014, 09:05:34 AM »
uhmmmmm thats the 6th DNA40 box i made, unfortunately mine just shows that and wont go "up" i dont know why i have so many issue with DNA haha. can anybody help??? i know the stuck "up" button can only be fixed by evolve, i was wondering if the stuck down button is the same thing.

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2014, 09:12:43 AM »
Nice find, it rings a bell now you mention it, but it will be copied with fake numbs. 

I saw a link to day to a Hana DNA40 clone $99 I would be interested to see how well they copied the new features, poorly I suspect.  But wouldn't trust any of the clones of Evolv boards as even if they managed to get the functionality the component specs would likely be boarder line.

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #44 on: October 28, 2014, 09:44:16 AM »
uhmmmmm thats the 6th DNA40 box i made, unfortunately mine just shows that and wont go "up" i dont know why i have so many issue with DNA haha. can anybody help??? i know the stuck "up" button can only be fixed by evolve, i was wondering if the stuck down button is the same thing.

Sounds like a stuck Down button. Scrolling down to 1.0W and continually holding the button will display a serial number and "Genuine". Letting go of the down button will then display 1.0W. If the serial # and "Genuine" still shows then the button maybe stuck.

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #45 on: October 28, 2014, 09:51:08 AM »
so its really a serial number? unique for every board or a whole batch/order etc?

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #46 on: October 28, 2014, 09:56:13 AM »
Unique to itself! But, I’m sure all the characters have meaning in a time frame.

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2014, 10:07:05 AM »
I don't have anything connected to the leads and nothing is pressing on the onboard button.  Do you have any insight on how to get it unstuck? Will it be software related?

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #48 on: October 28, 2014, 10:15:05 AM »
Wish I could help! But, i believe it's above my pay grade.  I've found it very difficult to get a haircut over the phone. I would send it back to the maker/manufacturer.

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Re: New DNA 40 with temperature control
« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2014, 12:00:33 PM »
I don't have anything connected to the leads and nothing is pressing on the onboard button.  Do you have any insight on how to get it unstuck? Will it be software related?

If you don't have anything connected as far as remote switches then yes the on-board down button is stuck. I would recommend returning the board for repair or replacement.

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