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Breaktru Forum  |  eCigarette Forum  |  Modding  |  Topic: DNA 200 is Coming
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Author Topic: DNA 200 is Coming  (Read 48654 times)

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Offline mamu

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2015, 11:49:46 PM »
I'll try my best, if I'm able, to help make sure that Joe Idiot is fully aware of the dangers involved when building this particular device.

I would take your intent more seriously and feel you are on the up and up if modders weren't already - and have for some time now - been modding with 40A, 200W and 60A, 300W converters using 3S lipo packs.  So far, no Joe Idiots in the lot.

What's different with the DNA200 that it makes it your special agenda?  But more importantly, if you're truly serious - why aren't you out there with those modders working with 40A and 60A converters looking for Joe Idiot and telling him how you feel about him working with 3S lipo packs?

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2015, 09:42:35 AM »
I would take your intent more seriously and feel you are on the up and up if modders weren't already - and have for some time now - been modding with 40A, 200W and 60A, 300W converters using 3S lipo packs.  So far, no Joe Idiots in the lot.

There's a very valid reason why...

But more importantly, if you're truly serious - why aren't you out there with those modders working with 40A and 60A converters looking for Joe Idiot and telling him how you feel about him working with 3S lipo packs?

Because the manufacturers of those 40A, 60A and higher converters aren't marketing a DIY project that's designed as a plug 'n' play application requiring the use of a 3S Lipo in a device that'll be near your face (and others around you).......made for Joe Idiot or Johnny Engineer.

What's different with the DNA200 that it makes it your special agenda?
 

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=fda+deeming+regulations+for+e-cigs

And EVERY vaper should care!

Cuz it'll only take 1 Joe Idiot to kill/maim someone and all vaper's will pay the price....let alone Jane One-Eye.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 09:57:54 AM by timesarerough »

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #52 on: June 15, 2015, 10:29:30 AM »
These questions are still pending for the beta-testers...


....I've yet to see what (if any) are the fail-safes if the board malfunctions or fails.

Unlikely to happen immediately, but it will eventually fail...somewhere.

In the event it does, did the beta team test any board failure scenarios?

And if so, what are those scenarios and the fail-safe's in place for them?

My main concern is if the balancer fails.

Will the user know it via a warning on the device?

Or will the user have to connect it to their PC?

Offline VapingBad

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #53 on: June 15, 2015, 01:24:57 PM »
These questions are still pending for the beta-testers...

I am not a beta tester, but I can clearly see a fuse on the board near the battery connector.

Offline CraigHB

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #54 on: June 15, 2015, 04:51:53 PM »
Because the manufacturers of those 40A, 60A and higher converters aren't marketing a DIY project that's designed as a plug 'n' play application requiring the use of a 3S Lipo in a device that'll be near your face (and others around you).......made for Joe Idiot or Johnny Engineer.

I agree, I would not use a mod employing a LiPo pack such as the kind sold by hobby shops.  They're just too volatile.  It's one thing to use them for their intended application, quite another to use one right in front of your face.  Even when used for their intended application people have issue with the high failure rate.  At the very least are issues with LiPos going off during charging.  RC modelers go to pretty involved lengths to secure these packs for charging.  Using things like charging bunkers is pretty typical because they fail so commonly

I've yet to hear about one of these LiPo packs going off in someones face, but there are not many mods that use them at this point and if it has happened, there's no guarantee we would hear about it.  If people start commonly using these packs in e-cig mods, then I have little doubt we'll hear about incidents with them.  I certainly hear of many incidents with these packs on the RC forums I visit.

That's not to say that LiPos are unsafe in a general sense, they're not.  It's just the performance ones sold for powered models have an unusually high failure rate and they are fairly volatile so when they go off, they really go off.   Unfortunately those are the ones widely available over the counter that a modder would likely use.


« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 05:32:39 PM by CraigHB »

Offline Visus

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #55 on: June 15, 2015, 05:53:12 PM »
IDK theres ego's that are .2 sub ohm capable now and they are lipo based,  theres a whole lot of lipo use in e cigs craig,  just not 3s..
Lipo use is enormous..  Isticks,  clones of isticks,  its huge mvp's, ego's, etc etc

I said earlier 18650's are not too shabby either they can go off like a bomb too.  Which do i trust more,  neither,  I trust maintenance making sure they charge, hold charge, and discharge properly.  Like you said all these high power batts are not safe but safe enough.   

With monitors like touted with dna200 is this still a huge concern?  IDK  are they taking a huge risk  --yes,  if one goes off it will crush them IMO..

Offline CraigHB

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #56 on: June 15, 2015, 06:23:10 PM »
As I mentioned before the lower "C" rated liPos are not as volatile.  The OEM LiPos used in production e-cigs are not produced with performance as a priority the way the hobby LiPos are.  The ones that are of most concern are those above 20C.  It's actually hard to find a LiPo 20C and under from a hobby shop.  They usually start at 25C with 40 to 60C being most common.  HobbyKing is one of the few shops that carries a wide range of 20C LiPos. 

Even so, a quality high drain 18650 is going to have a significantly lower incidence of failure than a LiPo.  My advice to any modder is to stick with 18650s for the best safety.  Personally I use a custom order 10C LiPo for the small mods I build, but anything bigger than that I stick to the 18650s.  There's never 100% safety, but I think the high quality 18650s get you as close as it's possible to get.

I think it was mentioned before, but with three high drain 18650s you have a nominal available power of 220W continuous and 330W burst.  Anyone who needs more power than that should get their head examined.

Offline Visus

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #57 on: June 15, 2015, 06:48:09 PM »
BTW  :thankyou:

It is of the best knowledge I have seen on this battery subject.  I know how intimate you are with your hobbies,  your words are and have been muse for others in conversations.

I personally love the steel tube extra layer of protection in tube batteries have, I have used lipo's in mods and not without issue , I know its normal for them to swell under heavy load but that made me feel uncomfortable watching it happen while thoroughly testing the mod through sub ohm ranges.. 

Meh'
UPC and vape at home all day everyday -- thats my vision at the compound.  lol

Kids had pokemon we have ecigs gotta have them all lol..

Electric cars, gas cars, airplanes,  even getting naked on a mountainside,  etc etc.,  the fear is from real events but with best effort of safety we try to get there to safest level. 
Were still sudo-caveman -- grunt with me   urrrrrrr..  lol

Cannot wait until they address this.  :popcorn:

Its strange how people do not fear subohm vaping anymore,
I know I had my days
hopefully this a passing event and  isn't as bad as on paper looks as outcome many possibles..


Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2015, 06:51:06 PM »
IDK theres ego's that are .2 sub ohm capable now and they are lipo based,  theres a whole lot of lipo use in e cigs craig,  just not 3s..
Lipo use is enormous..  Isticks,  clones of isticks,  its huge mvp's, ego's, etc etc

All of the iStick cells are 3.7V and are a (guestimated) 2.5C rating.

The iStick 50W is a 2-cell pack in parallel, but is still only a (guestimated) 10A rated pack.

The iSticks have a very limited output and are not capable of extreme vaping.

Quite a difference from a 35C recommended pack.

While it's clear that China is moving in the lipo cell direction, they're also specifically designing those cells with safety in mind.

*Edited* for guestimates.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 10:07:32 PM by timesarerough »

Offline doobedoobedo

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2015, 08:10:05 PM »
C rating on LiPos is based on their internal resistance. I'd much rather use a High C rated LiPo at well below it's capabilities than a low C rated one on the limit.

I was going to say that I never use below 35C rated batteries for that very reason, but I just checked and I have 25C cells in my YiHi 150W   freaked_out:

Timesarerough please check your basic maths. You're saying that the iStick 50W has a battery that won't safely deliver 50W (@3.3V 50W is 15A, @4.2V 50W is 12A).

Offline CraigHB

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #60 on: June 15, 2015, 08:20:30 PM »
There's a happy medium there for sure.  Loading a 2C battery to 10C is definitely more hazardous than running a 35C battery at 2C.  Generally for e-cigs, anything more than a 10C battery is overkill, maybe 20C for a high output mod with a smaller battery.  BTW, the high drain 18650s are 8C typically though they rate them with a flat current.  Having a 20A continuous rating and 2500mAh capacity makes it 8C.

LiPo swelling is a bit of a mystery.  Some cells will swell a small amount just under normal and wear and tear.  Others will not swell even when abused.  It's obviously due to the release of gases during charge and discharge, but some do it more than others.  Though any heavily swelled LiPo is something to avoid using.  It can be a sign of impending failure.

The 18650s may do the same thing, but being in a hard case instead of a foil envelope you would never be able to tell.  They do have a pressure relief vent, but the cell is sealed normally and it takes a couple atmospheres before the vent pops and stays that way.  Of course if that ever happens, the cell should be immediately disposed of in a proper manner.  The best way to prepare any cell for disposal is to discharge it to zero volts with a normal load.  That renders it inert where the only way it can catch fire is by external heating.  People sometimes recommend a salt water bath and that will slowly discharge the cell over a period of time, but the salt water can corrode or dissolve the contacts causing an erroneous zero reading.  Best to discharge them totally flat with a load.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 08:36:25 PM by CraigHB »

Offline doobedoobedo

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #61 on: June 15, 2015, 08:55:51 PM »
In my experience cells swell when they're unhappy. Left fully charged for too long, run too hard, or left discharged for too long (worst culprit - maybe I don't run them hard enough :)).

You're right though, you have no idea what's going on in that metal tube.

Sort of on topic as it contains 35C LiPos :). Finished yesterday.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 08:59:32 PM by doobedoobedo »

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #62 on: June 15, 2015, 09:52:41 PM »
C rating on LiPos is based on their internal resistance. I'd much rather use a High C rated LiPo at well below it's capabilities than a low C rated one on the limit.

I was going to say that I never use below 35C rated batteries for that very reason, but I just checked and I have 25C cells in my YiHi 150W   freaked_out:

Timesarerough please check your basic maths. You're saying that the iStick 50W has a battery that won't safely deliver 50W (@3.3V 50W is 15A, @4.2V 50W is 12A).

Since the C-rating nor the amp rating of the iStick has ever been revealed, I took a close guess based on available data....which is spotty to say the least and varied among releases.

The 50W will only do 50W under certain conditions, most of which don't exist for normal vapers.

Rated output voltage: 2.0V-10.0V
Rated output wattage: 5W-50W
Rated resistance range: 0.2?-5?   <----Published limitations by iSmoka and given to Eleaf USA.

And 0.20 ohms isn't realistic either since most peeps get an error message....0.40 is about the lowest it'll go.

P. Busardo has a neat toy that he calls a "lazy box" where he can set the wattage and it'll tell him the conditions needed for that device to hit that wattage. He used it in his review, but I don't remember what his results showed.


But anyways, back on topic....the 200.  ;)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 10:26:17 PM by timesarerough »

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2015, 10:31:41 PM »
Best to discharge them totally flat with a load.

Awe c'mon Craig, where your sense of adventure? 

Donchya wanna be a YT star? :laughing:




Don't forget your safety glasses and running shoes!
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 10:50:43 PM by timesarerough »

Offline VapingBad

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #64 on: June 16, 2015, 06:33:20 AM »
Retail for the board looks like  80 USD, 54 GBP from first pre-order I have seen, not sure if it is permissible to link here.  In the UK anyway that is substantially less than the SX350J (70 GBP).

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #65 on: June 16, 2015, 11:03:45 AM »
Retail for the board looks like  80 USD, 54 GBP from first pre-order I have seen, not sure if it is permissible to link here.  In the UK anyway that is substantially less than the SX350J (70 GBP).

Considering the board is gonna be released very soon, probably won't matter, pre-orders are claiming "by the end of the week will have in hand".

You'll see vendors offering them and Co-Ops will be opening.

Least expensive option is a non-profit Co-Op cuz you'll get it wholesale, not retail.


Offline waverunr2001

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #66 on: June 17, 2015, 01:52:32 PM »
How would you hear about a Co-op? I'm all about saving money!  :rockin smiley:

Offline CraigHB

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #67 on: June 17, 2015, 04:10:33 PM »
Donchya wanna be a YT star? :laughing:

Haha, there's already YT stars doing that.  Seen some good explosions punching LiPos with nails.  Yeah, you better have good running shoes.

Offline VapingBad

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #68 on: June 26, 2015, 09:47:21 PM »
Looks like today's the day, Saturday that is StealthVape and Cloud9 in the UK have both been taking orders for boards that are "in stock" yesterday, nothing on the Evolv site except the  Cad files and the updated data sheet/instructions http://www.evolvapor.com/DNA200/.

Offline Podunk Steam

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #69 on: June 28, 2015, 06:11:34 AM »
I've been trying to soak up as much as I can about this beasty.
I'd kind of like to get an opinion on something that has come to mind. I'm with the opinion as a general rule it take about 4 times as much brass to carry the same current copper will, so where does this place most 510 connectors with the brass center pins?

For me not in anything I build with a DNA200! Now I just have to figure out how solder 12 gauge copper to a copper 510 center pin.  :laughing2:

Offline Visus

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #70 on: June 28, 2015, 07:25:13 AM »
Looks like today's the day, Saturday that is StealthVape and Cloud9 in the UK have both been taking orders for boards that are "in stock" yesterday, nothing on the Evolv site except the  Cad files and the updated data sheet/instructions http://www.evolvapor.com/DNA200/.

One of the pre-order companies announced on fb  that Evolv called the pre-release off,  as they have a revision but haven't informed those with pre-order chips how to do the update  yet so its on standby.  Minor set back,  it looks like they found more fairy dust lol..

Whats the numbers Break?   come-on they gotta release you guys non disclosures lol..


Offline Podunk Steam

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #71 on: June 28, 2015, 07:32:06 AM »
This would probably be a good place for this if I haven't missed it somewhere.

http://evolvapor.forumchitchat.com/

Offline Visus

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #72 on: June 28, 2015, 07:41:04 AM »
I've been trying to soak up as much as I can about this beasty.
I'd kind of like to get an opinion on something that has come to mind. I'm with the opinion as a general rule it take about 4 times as much brass to carry the same current copper will, so where does this place most 510 connectors with the brass center pins?

For me not in anything I build with a DNA200! Now I just have to figure out how solder 12 gauge copper to a copper 510 center pin.  :laughing2:

Wow Podunk you may have saved many modders headaches building this beast..  Your 100% on it genius there..  :thumbsup:
Material IACS   % Conductivity
Silver                          105
Copper                          100
Gold                            70
Aluminum                    61
Nickel                            22
Zinc                                    27
Brass                            28
Iron                                17
Tin                                    15
Phosphor Bronze            15
Lead                              7
Nickel Aluminum Bronze   7
Steel                         3 to 15





Offline Podunk Steam

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #73 on: June 28, 2015, 08:18:37 AM »
With all the brass center pins out there I thought it might be worth mentioning.
This morning was the first mention of the copper center pin I had seen in my last post soon after I had posted here.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 08:35:06 AM by Podunk Steam »

Offline Visus

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #74 on: June 29, 2015, 04:43:51 AM »

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2015, 05:09:33 PM »
First questions come to mind...

1. What kinda of juice tincture is Rip vaping?

2. 12-pack or 6 doubles?


Summary...

Probably not a good idea to post a video about a new product release ....when stoned or wasted.

Offline Visus

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #76 on: June 29, 2015, 05:45:36 PM »
First questions come to mind...

1. What kinda of juice tincture is Rip vaping?

2. 12-pack or 6 doubles?


Summary...

Probably not a good idea to post a video about a new product release ....when stoned or wasted.

LOL he does not get paid or has to be any kind of way at all. 
Rip is ripped  :thumbsup:
Busardo been messed up many times on cam rfol
Hell PB and Dimitri were gettin blew out in innokins factory they served them some scotch

He just needs tell the truth about it and he does, its badarse  :laughing2:

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #77 on: June 29, 2015, 06:41:28 PM »
All of these reviewers are making money somewhere, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

That's how Youtubers become millionaires...simply by making dumb videos.

The more hits, the more followers, the more $$.

How on earth his followers keep growing is beyond me....guess that he appeals to kids?


Online Breaktru

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Re: DNA 200 Manual, Tutorial and software
« Reply #78 on: June 29, 2015, 07:06:59 PM »
Check this out............

DNA 200 Manual, Tutorial and software

Offline doobedoobedo

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #79 on: June 29, 2015, 07:10:03 PM »
 Hoping mine arrives tomorrow. Still debating which battery to use, 850/1000/1500mAh


Offline VapingBad

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #80 on: June 29, 2015, 07:23:05 PM »
Loads of cool stuff in the training guide like the mod profiling test that runs a hour long test on your mod to get metrics of how it dissipates heat to more accurately regulate temp limiting and battery protection.

Offline Visus

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Re: DNA 200 Manual, Tutorial and software
« Reply #81 on: June 29, 2015, 08:11:41 PM »
Check this out............

DNA 200 Manual, Tutorial and software

Wow the manual  talks ya thru   :laughing2:

Intuitive future of vaping looks amazing,
 now if the ejuice vendors can stop lying about chemicals in their juices oh_my:
 we will be ok..


-----------------------------------------------

Times Rip ignores everybody and just does his thing and people love him for it IDK

Kids perhaps yep -- our younger gen of vapers love him 
very youthful younguns think vaping is lame  :yes"

Offline miskol

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #82 on: June 30, 2015, 06:15:48 PM »
so the DNA200 will take max input current of 23Amps and able to provide output current continuously up to 50Amps max, how does it possible?

Offline VapingBad

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #83 on: June 30, 2015, 06:55:31 PM »
so the DNA200 will take max input current of 23Amps and able to provide output current continuously up to 50Amps max, how does it possible?
The input is from 3 battery cells in series, so 3 x the voltage & 3 x the power compared to most mods, for example a DNA40.  The output voltage will be lower than the input voltage, if you think of watts on each side it may make more sense the nominal voltage of a 3S lipo is 11.1 V and 23 A this would be 255 W.

Offline CraigHB

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #84 on: July 01, 2015, 05:38:39 PM »
That's the handy thing about a step-down converter, it converts higher voltage and lower current to lower voltage and higher current. The only part of the system that has to handle very high currents is the inductor and rectifier.  Since an inductor is simply a wire coiled around a ferrous core, it just needs to have a conductor with a heavy enough gauge to handle the current.  The rectifier is a MOSFET and it's not unusual to find small(ish) surface mount ones that can handle currents as high as 50A.  Another thing about an e-cig is that they don't power the atomizer continuously.  Much higher currents can be sustained when they are not constant.

Breaktru Forum  |  eCigarette Forum  |  Modding  |  Topic: DNA 200 is Coming
 

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