Author Topic: Novice Builder: need help/lots of questions. (Read 15626 times)

vapetech334 · « **on:** August 31, 2015, 12:55:18 PM »

Hello all. I'm Gary from Montgomery, Alabama. I hope these questions aren't too infantile, but here goes!

To start off with, Ive done a few box mods, mostly unregulated, and an okr 10 and sx350

I wanted to try my hand at something different so i ordered the Delta D12F200 40a 200w Chip

judging by the schematic below, It seems like the simplest of all my 200w options

I've gotten all the parts ordered including a ModMeter http://www.Modmeter.com.
Ive got a few questions.
First
Ive ordered the 220 resistor and the 200 pot but i don't like the looks of the pot and so i also ordered a 470 and 500 resistor and a much nicer sturdier 470 pot with a nice knurled knob on it. I don't really understand all the calculations therein and was wondering what kind of different voltage that would make.

Second question. The supplied diagram doesn't show an on off switch, so I'm planning on doing the same thing i did with a few mech mods and adding an engage button on the opposite side of the box on the first wire coming off the li-po so it must be held before the fire button can be pressed. does that seem problematic?

Third question
This is in regards to the mod meter which i haven't seen mentioned here yet, unless i missed it, but on the modmeter home page it states
"ModMeter won't work with N-Channel Mosfet mods unless it has a separate power supply. Connecting up ModMeter to an N-Channel Mosfet build will make it autofire so we suggest that if you want a ModMeter for a Mosfet build, use a P-Channel Mosfet."
Since I'm a newbie with electronics and have no idea what N- and P-Fets are other than being MOSFETS, i don't know if the one i ordered is an N or P so I am prepared to wire a separate 9volt to power the Modmeter. I ordered the Mosfet in the diagram BTW irlb3034pbf

Final question
I was going to hard-wire the Li-po pack instead of using XT connectors and the balance charger i ordered is rather small so since i ordered a large box to work with, I was going to remove the hard-case and replace it with heat shrink and put it in the box also and plug the jst-xh charging plug directly in. I could theoretically add a switch if necessary but i don't think it would matter as long as there is no charge going to the balancing charger, I would of course position the DC plug like a pass-through charger. also would i need a battery voltage checker with an alarm?

EDIT: I must have missed this part on the modmeter page but the ModMeter Voltage Range 1 or 2 batteries. 3.2v - 8.4v. SO Depending on whether my mosfet is N- or P-Channel, I will either need to scrap the li-po and balancing charger all together and put in dual 26650s(anyone recommend a good pass-through charging board) or power the modmeter independently and add a battery voltage checker with alarm. Either way this mod is turning out to be more costly than i imagined and my whole purpose was to provide high powered well equipped boxes locally for low prices. I guess this guy might just be another personal box.

Edit 2(the sequel): well I did a little research of my own and found that the irlb3034pbf midget is in fact an N-channel. So I will be wiring a second battery and duh it won't be a 9v either as the max voltage for the modmeter is 8.4. So I guess I could put
An 18350 or something in the case as well. I was reallly hoping to make this box rarely open but unless anyone has some easier ways of doing this mod. Like how to replace the nchan with a pchan or a way to charge the second modmeter battery without adding another external connector, it looks like I'll be scrapping the li-po and going with the dual 26650s.
I hope I haven't worn out my welcome!
Thanks in advance to any help provided.

PS If need be i can link the parts I ordered for further checking.

Gary - fledgling entrepreneur for 334VaporTech

Visus · « **Reply #1 on:** September 01, 2015, 06:00:59 PM »

Thats a tall board to build as a novice and your questions reflect that.

It relayers design and you can find him at boxmodders on facebook.

1. your voltage range is 3.3v down to 2v use relayers resistor values 220 and 200

2. an on/off switch is the easiest part just break the load from the battery

3. its a positive logic board you really do not a need a mosfet

4. there are lipo chargers at varitube they do not have an alarm nor are passthru

My advice you are spending more than just buying a Dna or a yihi board all simplified for ya. If this was a hobby build then skies the limit cause its awesome to build but you say you have plans to sell -- btw Break doesn't allow chat of selling products this is a hobby building site..

Whoa did ya know that board can easily hurt ya? Be careful...

david4500 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 01, 2015, 09:04:41 PM »

I'm not personally familiar with this board but I am with the OKR. Being that the pot and resistor values seem to be the same, the following should apply as well (double check the data sheet to be sure)

The trim resistor (220 ohm) will set the high output voltage.

The value of the trim resistor plus the value of the potentiometer (220+200 ohm) will set the low output voltage.

This formula will calculate the output voltage: Trim resistance=1182/(Voltage output-0.591) http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Ohms%3D1182%2F%28V-0.591%29

So with a 220 ohm trim resistor, the high output voltage would be ~5.96v http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=220%3D1182%2F%28V-0.591%29

With a 220 ohm trim resistor + 200 ohm pot, the low output voltage would be ~3.28v http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=220%2B220%3D1182%2F%28V-0.591%29

Again, double check the data sheet of the board to verify that the above applies.

Quote from: Visus on September 01, 2015, 06:00:59 PM

3. its a positive logic board you really do not a need a mosfet

From what I've read, some of the higher power boards have a fairly significant standby current. The mosfet is used to interrupt the board power supply to prevent draining of batteries while idle.

Visus · « **Reply #3 on:** September 01, 2015, 09:42:22 PM »

Sweet info on the idle power drain
I did know some raptors were having that issue

That boards a beast it can do much more than 200watts lol 70amps to hiccup mode

vapetech334 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 01, 2015, 11:50:18 PM »

Thanks for all the info and Advice guys.

This is going to be a hobby build and i guess i wanted to do something different than a yihi or dna build bc they are too simplified and I wanted to learn, maybe i jumped the gun a bit with my chip though

using the momentary switch to interrupt the power off the batteries should eliminate any idle power drain, so i wouldnt need a mosfet, correct?

im also going to be going with the dual 26650's instead of the lipo, ill be saving it for a mechanical build

Visus · « **Reply #5 on:** September 02, 2015, 02:38:00 AM »

Correct
It will cut battery power draw to zero..
Its how I wire my mods I do not use a fet or enable pin I use a momentary on Vin but at most I pull is 13 amps.
Your gonna need a hefty momentary switch lol but---->
Break devised a formula for rating momentary buttons and it seems to work a charm
I am using a C&K 3 amp switch for 2yrs now between 30-70watts on 3 different mods and no issues I have used it up to 150watts no problems, its a great little switch. http://www.ck-components.com/8500/pushbutton,10482,en.html
Don't get deterred by its 3amp rating it is fantastic switch for our mods.. Just using it as an example other quality mom-switches are the same and will handle more current..

Yeah you jumped into holy cow that can arc weld ~430 watt capable device.. One mistake and huge flash and zap sound

They all wire up similar but there's lots of post on the lower amperage devices okr, 08100, raptor, okl etc, loads of help info..
Not many build with that board because of it's huge size..

vapetech334 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 02, 2015, 02:19:26 PM »

Let's say I decided to scrap this build.. can you reccomend a board that wouldn't require an N Chan.. somewhere around 100 watts ..
Also my wife wants me to build her one but she vapes at 11w she can't even hit any dripper coils I build.. right now I'm using an ipv3 li upgrade w a CCI Archon dual coiled 20g Mad Rabbit wire at 0.1ohms at 170watts... I've won most of the local cloud comps except one guy using 22g MR Wire in a Goliath rda with 8 coils at 6 wraps rating at 0.04 ohms and he has a mechanical box he built with a li-po that he claims runs 400watts.. but he won't even discuss its schematics... I guess that's part of the reason I wanted to do this high powered builds
.. was to beat him...

Thanks for all the info

vapetech334 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 02, 2015, 02:28:00 PM »

I use a similar mom switch... Do you know of any with Angel eyes or Similar leds rated at 3a? Or a way I could wire one in without blowing the switch up..LOL

vapetech334 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 02, 2015, 02:38:51 PM »

Would these work http://m.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-16mm-3A-36VAC-MOMENTARY-2-5V-Red-LED-Angel-Eye-Push-Power-Button-Switch-/151644399755?nav=SEARCH

Or would these be better
http://m.ebay.com/itm/24V-3A-Blue-LED-SPDT-Momentary-Stainless-Push-Button-Switch-Round-Pilot-Light-/351077273813?nav=SEARCH

Also when I ordered my wood enclosure they gave me 2 free mom switches but they are only 1a... I can't even use them as my firing buttons can I ..

Visus · « **Reply #9 on:** September 02, 2015, 06:19:40 PM »

Quote from: vapetech334 on September 02, 2015, 02:19:26 PM

Let's say I decided to scrap this build.. can you reccomend a board that wouldn't require an N Chan.. somewhere around 100 watts ..
Also my wife wants me to build her one but she vapes at 11w she can't even hit any dripper coils I build.. right now I'm using an ipv3 li upgrade w a CCI Archon dual coiled 20g Mad Rabbit wire at 0.1ohms at 170watts... I've won most of the local cloud comps except one guy using 22g MR Wire in a Goliath rda with 8 coils at 6 wraps rating at 0.04 ohms and he has a mechanical box he built with a li-po that he claims runs 400watts.. but he won't even discuss its schematics... I guess that's part of the reason I wanted to do this high powered builds
.. was to beat him...

Thanks for all the info

David posted in here his 555 pwm board it blows away any board you can buy for vaping wanna vape 1000 watts it can lol..
Its a more advanced build with soldering but then theres Themodfather pwm board fully built, it will do the same if you have the battery thats 2000 watts capable it will do it..pm david he may sell his fully built IDK but its sweeter than molasses..

http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,1505.0.html

~~One stop shop for pwm, building, etc.~~ His website has changed he doesn't have the pwm boards for sale anymore but still has a few of the components for sale..
https://squareup.com/market/modfather

Look in the coop section here, Times has the pimpest momentary switches you will find for sale..
http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,1577.0.html

vapetech334 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 02, 2015, 06:51:23 PM »

So what all do I need for that 555 build and if it a pfet then I can use my mod meter...yay

Visus · « **Reply #11 on:** September 02, 2015, 08:32:55 PM »

Quote from: vapetech334 on September 02, 2015, 06:51:23 PM

So what all do I need for that 555 build and if it a pfet then I can use my mod meter...yay

Read Davids post The 555 pwm board are on oshpark as open source he has all the parts, boards, everything you need.

Ya the 555 is pfet or n I havent built one yet so idk, except in a simulator.. But ya whatever the batts and fets you get can handle in watts it will do it..

vapetech334 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 02, 2015, 09:07:52 PM »

Thanks for all the help man.. the pwm board sounds great..
On another note what simulator are you talking about.

Visus · « **Reply #13 on:** September 02, 2015, 10:07:21 PM »

Kicad electronics suite it has a simulator with 555 pwm on a preload demo, makes it uber easy to load fets switches etc its quite an extensive electronics suite.
Its on linux though Im on windows now having issues with my wifi in linux, but its in redhat depository if your familiar with linux.. Its 4gb tho but you can dl each separate.. Youtube has classes on how to work it and many are based on the 555 pwm circuit.

Craighb hooked us up on which ones were awesome and easy at our novice levels there are quite a few simulators but I am learning on Kicad.

Here's what you need if you want to play around with it.. http://mithatkonar.com/wiki/doku.php/kicad/kicad_spice_quick_guide

vapetech334 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 02, 2015, 10:19:24 PM »

Awesome...thanks I am familiar with Linux and red hat. Although my old linbox is quite old. I hope it's not resource intensive If it is ill just load the os on my gaming rig.

On another note I'm trading someone my delta chip for a populated pcb s David's dualpara 555 pwm on it.. so lucky

Visus · « **Reply #15 on:** September 03, 2015, 02:43:11 AM »

Awesome trade
Resource intensive on linux rfol it never goes above 512 mb on memory usage on any linux program. You can run some linux on kb lol.
Well Im talking about old distro's haven't played with the new
I use beefy miracle fedora and it works fine w/ no lag under the 512mb memory table..

I wanna buy those pwm boards but have no real use for them other than to sit pretty beside other mods on the shelf.
Mainly I would purchase them for playing with soldering the smd components but enough is enough, I have 4 18650 high power mods two 12v passthru's some aa mods and some mech's but enough overstock in reg's to build more reg mods.

Visus · « **Reply #16 on:** September 03, 2015, 08:41:43 PM »

The kicad simulation program is Ktechlab I played around with it last night after posting it's uber sweeeeet.
Its on Lt spice too but not a grab and drop. With Ktechlab you just grab and drop from huge side bar of fets, passives switches etc.., kindergarten simple lol.

doobedoobedo · « **Reply #17 on:** September 03, 2015, 09:13:22 PM »

I'm using kicad (on Gentoo Linux). Now I'm used to it I think it's definitely more powertful than Eagle. I only looked t it to start with because I couldn't do what I wanted to with Eagle.

I might have to check out ktechlab.

Visus · « **Reply #18 on:** September 03, 2015, 10:09:02 PM »

Hey doobe

Ya ktechlab is awesome really easy to test circuits and modules. I like it because of the youtube lessons, I have made it through two classes on it. It chocked full of all kinds of dmm's and oscilloscopes data in real time well simulated real you can see I/e/r/pwmfrq at any place, its a powerful tool..

For kicad theres a huge web community of just about everything electronic in libraries so thats also a huge plus, I even found my fav Ti PTR08100 and OKR modules ready to go. Eagle, even the pro's say is difficult but that it works for them because it's what was standard at a time lol..

I watched Aussie on EEvblog on youtube tear down Kicad; I was giggling because he couldn't get it at first and I knew what he was doing wrong, then he blew it out the water, it shows he is a brilliant EE. He works with eagle said the same he is accustomed but hates it///

Dangit I am on windows I would load the communities libraries page but have to slowly swap over to linux.. lol They are easy to find in google quite a few pages on, but I found the motherload...

Visus · « **Reply #19 on:** September 04, 2015, 05:41:29 AM »

Link for linux awesomenesses

http://www.tech-edv.co.at/05_LUnIx/80_CAD~2f3d/10_CAD~20Links/index.php

The libraries now come up on google search page 1 lol woot so if want it is easy enough to find..
I had to hunt for the Ti packages previously but they now are in top three post..

vapetech334 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 04, 2015, 10:15:41 AM »

Grrr... I'm having to rebuild my linbox it wouldn't even start up... I would have multi-booted OS's on my gaming rig but I'm already running Windows7, 8 , and 10.. even though I have 5ssd's totaling 4gb and 1gb Seagate hybrid drive I'm still worried about stability

doobedoobedo · « **Reply #21 on:** September 04, 2015, 05:30:58 PM »

Quote from: Visus on September 03, 2015, 10:09:02 PM

Hey doobe

Ya ktechlab is awesome really easy to test circuits and modules. I like it because of the youtube lessons, I have made it through two classes on it. It chocked full of all kinds of dmm's and oscilloscopes data in real time well simulated real you can see I/e/r/pwmfrq at any place, its a powerful tool..

For kicad theres a huge web community of just about everything electronic in libraries so thats also a huge plus, I even found my fav Ti PTR08100 and OKR modules ready to go. Eagle, even the pro's say is difficult but that it works for them because it's what was standard at a time lol..

I watched Aussie on EEvblog on youtube tear down Kicad; I was giggling because he couldn't get it at first and I knew what he was doing wrong, then he blew it out the water, it shows he is a brilliant EE. He works with eagle said the same he is accustomed but hates it///

Dangit I am on windows I would load the communities libraries page but have to slowly swap over to linux.. lol They are easy to find in google quite a few pages on, but I found the motherload...

Footprints are really easy to make in Kicad, so lots of online resources isn't a surprise.

You could install linux in a VM (it's what I use if I absolutely _have_ to run a full version of windows, but most things run under wine including ejuicemeup

). Windows has improved a lot since I switched to linux back in '99.

Visus · « **Reply #22 on:** September 04, 2015, 07:05:28 PM »

If windows would have released ddr3-4 ram it would have been supreme always to me, ya windows is awesome now.. They kept it military for a long time as guidance systems; the kill order was on that mem if stolen in wrong hands etc...

Winxp and it has a hardware conflict when I run any virtual box.. IDK whats causing it I have chequed 1000000 times and no find..

Nice rig tech

I run the calcs in me head now for diy been doing it for long enough now..

I needs a new puter badly but retired and po lol... My son just got a new laptop it screams with win 10 its a semi gaming rig, he after many arguments with me about pc better than console moved to the light. He still buys the sony ps4 to prove its amazing(it IS) but now knows why us elder gamers love our pc's..

But he vapes with ego's and ce4/510-t doesn't want anything else, str8 ol skol there lol... It looks cool is his thing about it...

vapetech334 · « **Reply #23 on:** September 05, 2015, 06:02:13 AM »

Thanks visual..I build custom pcs for a living.. it's about a year old but it still runs everything perfectly...it's a AMD FX 9590 OC'ED to 6ghz liquid cooled with a Peltier water exchange system it's got 32gb Ddr3 corsair dominator oced to 4mhz and dual Asus mars 760s also oced those are dual gpu cards so it's actually quad gpu it runs on an Asus crosshair v mobo...I'm sponsored by ASUS I usually build my own cases too... My pride and joy is my force feedback chair it's a converted sparco gtp racing seat with 7 bass drivers with a build in 600w Dayton amp and wireless audio reception it's also got 4 micca mids and two 2" tweeters built in. The bass drivers convert the low frequency to tactile feedback so it's like sitting in a ps4 controller.. I sell the chairs for 4500$ ..
I'm such a gamer geek

vapetech334 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 05, 2015, 06:14:05 AM »

I also ment to ask you David
Where did you get the values for this equation: Trim resistance=1182/(Voltage output-0.591)

david4500 · « **Reply #25 on:** September 05, 2015, 04:34:37 PM »

From an OKR datasheet, just used that for an example. Refer to the data sheet for your converter it might be different.