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I won't have to after reading the Box Elder thread!Or did we forget about the OP? Somebody will wind up dead and that'll be end of hi-nic juice for EVERYBODY!
Just to bring people back up to speed with this issue, several people here suspected that their Box Elder unflavored nic was too high compared to the labeled concentration. Someone claimed to have tested that theirs was 240 mg/mL. Others stated that theirs was also strangely strong. I, on the other hand, suspected mine was just different somehow, since it had no TH and very little odor in the 100 mg VG I bought. I offered to run full titration pH-curve analysis on any nic that was sent to me, since I was interested in nic level as well as freebase/nic-salt ratio. Several sent me samples of theirs, and I am presenting the results here, after spending much of the day doing these as accurately as possible. At some point during the discussions, BE decided to send an email out to all its customers stating that it was impossible for anyone to receive >200 mg nic, and people should be assured that whatever the nic level was that was ordered, that was the nic level received. Titration curves are not difficult to obtain, but to do them accurately requires specialized glassware and electronics. In my 30 year career I have done 1000s of such titrations.What I did: I used a PASCO pH probe calibrated to within 0.001 pH points at buffer pHs of 4, 7, and 10. I also used a calibrated PASCO drop counter, allowing accuracy to within about 1/30th of a mL during the titration. I used volumetric pipets and volumetric flasks to make dilutions for the nic liquids to be titrated, and I titrated with standardized 0.0730M HCl. pH at 0 mL titrant was measured to estimate freebase/salt ratio, and pH curve was created to past the first equivalence point (2nd inflection point). Each nic sample sent to me was titrated 3 times at least, and most samples sent were enough to do another set of 3 titrations. The nic concentration was then calculated from the titrant volume at the first equivalence point, back calculating to the original sample concentration. All samples, including my own sample, were virtually all freebase form, base on initial pH and final nic content found.I will give the results in two columns. The first is the nic content as given on the label. Second column will be the nic conc as determined by the above method.Nic labeled.....Nic determined100 mg....48 mg (This one was mine. Thanks BE.)100 mg....120 mg100 mg....272 mg 48 mg....78 mg36 mg....51 mg48 mg....59 mg100 mg....98 mg (this was my MFS 100 mg VG)I would say the intrinsic error is less than 2% for all of these. These results are as accurate as is obtainable, IMHO. I knew the one that gave the result of 272 mg was way high when I opened it, as it was so strong in nic odor that I had to work with it in a fume hood for the dilutions. It was also honey-amber, whereas the others were either colorless or slight yellow. 272 mg nic was likely the base they diluted to 100 mg from, or else they were mistakenly sent a lot of 100 mg nic that was actually 272 mg. I don't give a rat's a$$ what their excuse is, someone could well have died from this! I am a seasoned chemist, and this liquid was seriously scary to work with. Clearly there is more concern with CYA than actually testing their nic. Had they been responsible and expressed concern and actually tested their nic, this might have been avoided, but they instead chose to lie and even condescend as to how ridiculous the idea of levels being sold wrong was, and how oh so professional they are. For this community, this is about as bad as it can get. I strongly recommend Box Elder be banned from ECF, and the word should be spread to other ecig forums. The FDA would have a field day with this. If others want their nic analyzed, PM me.Vendors, you are now on notice. Either self-regulate and KNOW what you are selling, quantitatively, or else you are putting people, as well as the industry itself, in grave danger. I have no problem buying small quantities of unflavored nic solely for testing purposes. You have been warned. I am seriously outraged by this.
I sent them an email expressing my concern over how they are requesting people to return product not being very safe. If you are returning product via the post office, shouldn't you want to be more careful about packaging? If the product you might be returning could be 272mg/ml and it was put into a baggie, and it leaks onto the mail carrier and they get sick or worse, who is at fault? Either way, could you live with the consequences?I don't have any product I wish to return to them since I only have a little bit of "strong" 48mg/ml and I only use it for my personal use (that being only 6mg/ml so if I get a little more, or even 3x, it isn't that horrible) but like I say, since I only have about 30-40ml left of theirs, I'll just keep it and continue on with my RTS for anything higher than that.Also, did you notice in the email they sent out showing their current test results? It was actually showing them to be 127mg/ml but never disclosed the strength they were testing. I wonder if that was supposed to be 48?
Just stumpled over this www.eliquidtest.com, good explanation on how to test nic levels yourself.
Yeah Times, don't start a petition to ban 100mg Nic, that's the only way I buy it.