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Breaktru Forum  |  eCigarette Forum  |  Modding  |  Topic: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
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Author Topic: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage  (Read 52070 times)

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Offline silverslayer

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2012, 04:48:16 PM »
Hello friends.
I have also order that dna12 circuit and I am waiting to arrive from America to Greece.
I didn't understand so well from the above post. Does this circuit working good or not finally?
 It is expensive the truth is, but what do you think about variable voltage vs variable wattage function?
Which one has best results in vaping and why?  :Thinking:

My thoughts are..... the dna is just a gimmic. What difference does it make if it's measured in volts or watts. In the end it all equals sizzle in my aty.

Offline Topper

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2012, 04:54:28 PM »
My thoughts are..... the dna is just a gimmic. What difference does it make if it's measured in volts or watts. In the end it all equals sizzle in my aty.
Not actually.
The difference is Ohms law ;) Just kitting but its true.
Advantage is friendly and lazy vaping - just find your wattage and stop hesitate bout voltage, amperage, ohms of atty and so on.
Put your preferential 8-10-12W and vape. Change carto and vape again on your sweet point. Not to remember anything else except your lovely wattage.

Offline silverslayer

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #52 on: July 21, 2012, 05:05:38 PM »
Not actually.
The difference is Ohms law ;) Just kitting but its true.
Advantage is friendly and lazy vaping - just find your wattage and stop hesitate bout voltage, amperage, ohms of atty and so on.
Put your preferential 8-10-12W and vape. Change carto and vape again on your sweet point. Not to remember anything else except your lovely wattage.

Yea bout that. I don't find it too friendly that the thing cut's out all the time. It's done it ever since I bought it lol.
 

Offline Topper

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #53 on: July 21, 2012, 05:11:11 PM »
So your sweetness isn't VW :)
Maybe Craigs hyper wattage monster will be ;)
Oh BTW, post pictures of your baby you can now  ;cheers;

Offline CraigHB

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #54 on: July 21, 2012, 05:18:12 PM »
I build variable voltage into my own mods.  I think Dave will agree that there is not a huge advantage present in regulating wattage.  It's kind of a handy feature I suppose, but with a Wattage readout, you can do the same thing by manually adjusting voltage.  Sort of like manual or automatic transmission in a car. 

My primary reason for preferring voltage control is that it simplifies design.  With a mod that senses current, there's not much difference in a hardware sense between voltage and wattage control.   However, in software, it's much simpler to design a voltage controlled mod since you don't have to close the loop.  That just means you don't have to adjust dynamically based on feedback from current sensing.  It also makes it much easier to handle software exceptions where the mod may be pushed beyond it's ability to provide a user output setting.

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #55 on: July 21, 2012, 06:11:49 PM »
Yes Craig I agree that there is not a huge advantage. It's nice but I could live without it. I have both in front of me. One VW with one flavor and one VV with another flavor. Do I notice a difference. Hell NO. So I can change atty resistance without adjusting the VW. Okay... How often do I do that. Not too often. And like with Craig said. If you have a display showing wattage. It's no big deal. If you do NOT have a wattage display then yes it would be beneficial but then again, you would have to initially find your sweet spot blindly.

Yeah it's a Fad I think too. What if there was first Varible Wattage and someone just came up with a V. Voltage? would that be the new fad.
How about you Craig putting out a Variable Amperage Mod. Bet that would be the next new Fad.  :laughing2:

Offline CraigHB

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #56 on: July 21, 2012, 06:56:52 PM »
Hmm, current control.  That's been thought of before.  I remember seeing some posts about it on ECF, talk of using a current regulator.  I haven't been hanging out at ECF lately though.  Don't know if anything ever came of that.  In practicality, it would be the same thing as voltage control, output still dependant on atomizer resistance.  Controlling voltage is generally much easier than controlling current.  You could do it, but it would be more involved and would not accomplish anything that voltage control does not already accomplish.

I know you were kidding, but it made me think about it.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 07:06:26 PM by CraigHB »

Offline synchro

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2012, 11:47:03 AM »
Nice!

Offline Tripolitis

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2012, 02:01:20 PM »
Good afternoon from Greece my friends
Well,i have made the circuit using 100k and 4,7 k resistors but,
without the atomizer ,(1,5 ohm) the voltage is 6 volt.With the atomizer on the voltage is 4,4 volt.
Does anyone knows what i have do wrong?  :wallbash: :wallbash:
the battery is a black imr.
The good news is that there is no zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz anymore  :laughing:
and the battery is not getting warmer.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 02:20:50 PM by Tripolitis »

Offline Dznutz

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2012, 02:34:28 PM »
Good afternoon from Greece my friends
Well,i have made the circuit using 100k and 4,7 k resistors but,
without the atomizer ,(1,5 ohm) the voltage is 6 volt.With the atomizer on the voltage is 4,4 volt.
Does anyone knows what i have do wrong?  :wallbash: :wallbash:
the battery is a black imr.


Please someone chime in if I am wrong, it sounds to me like you used a fixed resistor on the 100k when in fact it needs to be a trimmer or potentiometer these are resistors but adjustable. With a fixed resistor you will get the top end voltage which is why you are at 6 volts.


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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2012, 03:44:02 PM »
Good afternoon from Greece my friends
Well,i have made the circuit using 100k and 4,7 k resistors but,
without the atomizer ,(1,5 ohm) the voltage is 6 volt.With the atomizer on the voltage is 4,4 volt.
Does anyone knows what i have do wrong?  :wallbash: :wallbash:
the battery is a black imr.
The good news is that there is no zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz anymore  :laughing:
and the battery is not getting warmer.

Did you use a 100k pot/trimmer in series with a fixed 4.7k resistor from pin 3 to gnd?
And.... did you use a voltage divider resistor between Pin 3 and Pin 4? I use a 15k. If you did not put a resistor there you will not be able to go below 5v.

Does the voltage adjust or is it only able to put out 6v w/ no load?

The battery may not be able to handle a 1.5 ohm load at 6v, hence the drop to 4.4v
A good battery can handle a 1.5 ohm load at lower voltage without too much drop with the PTN04050C but high voltage can NOT be used with that load.

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2012, 03:46:09 PM »

Please someone chime in if I am wrong, it sounds to me like you used a fixed resistor on the 100k when in fact it needs to be a trimmer or potentiometer these are resistors but adjustable. With a fixed resistor you will get the top end voltage which is why you are at 6 volts.


Note:
The higher the resistance the lower the voltage. And Vice-a Verse-a

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2012, 01:43:39 PM »
See attached photo for 9v battery box:


Offline Brian9523

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2012, 05:09:15 PM »
Ahhh Haaaa..........
So that's how your cram 10 pounds in to a 2 pound bag

Offline dasazo

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #64 on: August 21, 2012, 09:39:57 AM »
I understand that with the resistor between pins 3 and 4 u can adjust how much you can go below 5 volts on output. However I do not understand how/why it works this way. There is no mention of voltage divider resistance on the datasheet of this chip.

Can anyone explain me how the chip reacts to resistance between pins 3 and 4?

Edit: and how do you calculate the range min and max voltages you can achieve with certain voltage divider resistor?
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 09:54:21 AM by dasazo »

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #65 on: August 21, 2012, 10:47:53 AM »
I understand that with the resistor between pins 3 and 4 u can adjust how much you can go below 5 volts on output. However I do not understand how/why it works this way. There is no mention of voltage divider resistance on the datasheet of this chip.

Can anyone explain me how the chip reacts to resistance between pins 3 and 4?

Edit: and how do you calculate the range min and max voltages you can achieve with certain voltage divider resistor?

You're not going to find this in the datasheet because the module was not designed to operate like this.
The voltage divider resistor will allow the MIN output voltage to be lower than 5v and lower the MAX voltage. It effects the entire voltage output range.
The Adjust pin to ground will give you the range. The higher the total resistance, the lower the voltage.
The 100k pot is perfect for achieving the lower voltage range with it max'ed out.
With the pot zero'ed, the fixed resistor in series will determine the high end of the voltage range.
Most likely the efficiency rating is lower w/ the voltage divider in place on Pins 3 and 4.
But........ using a single 14500, 900mah trustfire, I was able to get up to 7 1/2 hours of vape time.

Offline dasazo

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #66 on: August 21, 2012, 11:52:17 AM »
You're not going to find this in the datasheet because the module was not designed to operate like this.
The voltage divider resistor will allow the MIN output voltage to be lower than 5v and lower the MAX voltage. It effects the entire voltage output range.
The Adjust pin to ground will give you the range. The higher the total resistance, the lower the voltage.
The 100k pot is perfect for achieving the lower voltage range with it max'ed out.
With the pot zero'ed, the fixed resistor in series will determine the high end of the voltage range.
Most likely the efficiency rating is lower w/ the voltage divider in place on Pins 3 and 4.
But........ using a single 14500, 900mah trustfire, I was able to get up to 7 1/2 hours of vape time.

Did you come by this accidentally or by calculations? If by calculations I would like to know how to calculate to min and max volts if I were to change resistor values.
The voltage range which your schema gives is just perfect, but I want to understand the theory behind it. :)

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #67 on: August 21, 2012, 11:59:45 AM »
Did you come by this accidentally or by calculations? If by calculations I would like to know how to calculate to min and max volts if I were to change resistor values.
The voltage range which your schema gives is just perfect, but I want to understand the theory behind it. :)

Actually Nuck was the first to use a 100K resistor on 3 and 4 which I saw about 2yrs ago. So credit goes to him for his Fistpack.
I don't have a formula, just trial runs. I'm sure a formula can be devised if you have the patience.

Offline vaporhead

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #68 on: September 22, 2012, 07:50:59 PM »
Actually Nuck was the first to use a 100K resistor on 3 and 4 which I saw about 2yrs ago. So credit goes to him for his Fistpack.
I don't have a formula, just trial runs. I'm sure a formula can be devised if you have the patience.

But I see that you tweaked the voltage range with a 15K, 4.7k and 100k pot which works excellent  :rockin smiley:

Offline red13dotnet

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #69 on: March 22, 2013, 01:53:19 PM »
Think I'm gonna try fitting this circuit into a pipe mod (Smoking pipe style, not copper, lol)

Offline yogi

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #70 on: July 11, 2013, 03:44:06 PM »
Think I'm gonna try fitting this circuit into a pipe mod (Smoking pipe style, not copper, lol)

Did you ever complete the pipe mod Red?  :Thinking: Would like to see it.

Offline micheleCIG

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #71 on: March 06, 2014, 07:17:09 AM »
hello everybody I am italian and I have been brought here because this forum is leggendary for its users' great ideas!
and obviously from breaktru that invited me to post on here any questions.

I have one, as I am willing to use a ptc fuse (thermistore) 2.5A to prevent circuit from frying when used over 12W, could anyone explain me theoric or practical functioning or any  way to install it?

I understand the ptc starts increasing its resistance at a certain I (current in Ampere), so I guess it has to interrupt Vin from source (battery) to the module, or?

kind regards to all of you

Offline dennis15

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #72 on: March 06, 2014, 07:48:13 AM »
hello everybody I am italian and I have been brought here because this forum is leggendary for its users' great ideas!
and obviously from breaktru that invited me to post on here any questions.

I have one, as I am willing to use a ptc fuse (thermistore) 2.5A to prevent circuit from frying when used over 12W, could anyone explain me theoric or practical functioning or any  way to install it?

I understand the ptc starts increasing its resistance at a certain I (current in Ampere), so I guess it has to interrupt Vin from source (battery) to the module, or?

kind regards to all of you

Craig has some real technical posts about PTC fuses: http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,265.msg2022.html#msg2022

There are a lot on good info through out this topic: http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,723.0.html

Offline pako75

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #73 on: March 06, 2014, 11:03:01 AM »
hello everybody I am italian

Anche io!!!!!!! Me too!!!!!!!  :thumbsup:

I am willing to use a ptc fuse (thermistore) 2.5A to prevent circuit from frying when used over 12W

I think 2.5A is very low rated.... you need at least 2 x 2.5A ptc fuses...

could anyone explain me theoric or practical functioning or any  way to install it?
dennis15 already answered to this... wiring is very simple..   BATTERY+ <--> PTC FUSE <--> FIRE BUTTON




Offline micheleCIG

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #74 on: March 06, 2014, 11:10:43 AM »
nice to meet you :)

why you say 2.5A is too low?
i am using one battery only, so, if I got it right, I would only need one PTC, right?

btw did you find a good place for ptc and amps in italy or in eu? (I am talking about e-commerce shop)

Offline pako75

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #75 on: March 06, 2014, 12:06:12 PM »
nice to meet you :)

why you say 2.5A is too low?
read this

How to choose an appropriate fuse for the converter you're working with:
A.  The first step in choosing a fuse is to read the converter's datasheet and find the max input current.  Choose a fuse with a hold current close to or equal to the converter's max input current.

If you don't know the max input current or it's not stated in the datasheet, Craig taught us a nifty equation to calculate that max input current: converter's max output power at 80% efficiency divided by min input voltage.

For example, the max output power for the DNA30 is 30W.  At 80% efficiency that's a total of 36W.  Min input voltage for the DNA30 is 3.2v.  Using Craig's equation: 36W / 3.2v = 11.25A.  The datasheet for the DNA30 states max input current is 12A - which is pretty close to the result of Craig's equation.  For the DNA30 then a 12A fuse would be appropriate.

You can choose a hold current slightly under or slightly over the max input current of the converter if you can't find a fuse that is equal to the max current and still have good protection as there is a current cushion between hold current and trip current.  What is important is that you don't want to choose a hold current that is too low else you'll get annoying inadvertent tripping when running the converter at or near max output or from normal operating internal heat (plus each time a fuse trips, the resistance takes days to return to the initial state).  For the most part, we are using fuses to protect us and the circuit from a batt fault or reverse polarity.  Either of those situations will cause a huge current dump from the batt, so no matter if the hold current is a bit high the fuse will trip rather fast.
PTN0405C -> 12W
+20% (80% efficiency) 14.4W
Min input voltage: 2.95V
Using Craig's equation: 14.4W / 2.95v = 4.88A ---> 5A PTC Fuse or 2x2.5A

i am using one battery only, so, if I got it right, I would only need one PTC, right?
One is allright, but 2 in parallel are better

C.  Next, look at the Rmin rating of the fuse.  The lower the resistance the least effect the fuse will have on the circuit - 10mOhms of resistance at 10A wastes 1W and causes an input voltage drop of 0.1v.  So... to have the least effect with adding unwanted resistance to the circuit, we parallel fuses.  Wiring 2x fuses in parallel cuts the fuse's internal resistance in half, BUT it also doubles the hold current and trip current.  If you are going to use 2 fuses in parallel, you must then look for a fuse with a hold current half the max current of the converter.  For example - if the converter's max current is 10A, you will need to choose a fuse with a 5A hold current (2x 5A = 10A).

btw did you find a good place for ptc and amps in italy or in eu? (I am talking about e-commerce shop)
I buy mostly from a phisical shop near home, but something i've bought from http://www.tme.eu/it/

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #76 on: March 06, 2014, 12:26:54 PM »
nice to meet you :)

why you say 2.5A is too low?
i am using one battery only, so, if I got it right, I would only need one PTC, right?

btw did you find a good place for ptc and amps in italy or in eu? (I am talking about e-commerce shop)

As per datasheet the 04050c has max output amperage of 2.4A @ 5V output voltage. We do not put fuses in the output but rather on the Input (the + leg of the battery).

In a boost circuit such as this the input amperage is higher than the output amperage.

However we are using the the 04050c hacked. The design of this module is for 5v to 15v output. We hacked it to 3.2v to 6v output.
If you look at the datasheet:
Vo = 15V is 0.8A max
Vo = 12V is 1.0A max
Vo = 9V is 1.3A max
Vo = 5v is 2.4A max

I have gone above those amperages due to the hack and with a quality 20C Li-Po battery. 4.67 amps on output. I probably can go higher.
The rating of the PTC will depend on your battery capability and how much you will be pushing the module.
I used TWO 3A PTC fuses in parallel with a single 20C Li-Po.
As discussed in the other PTC topic threads. Two parallel fuses will double the amperage and half the resistance of the fuse.
So with two 3A hold fuses, I have a rating of 6A hold fusing.

update: I was typing at the same time mamu was.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 07:03:58 PM by Breaktru »

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #77 on: March 06, 2014, 06:21:02 PM »
Hopefully those guys have you covered with that excellent info.  Just wanted to say welcome to the forum micheleCIG.

Might be a bit of a translation issue there, but just to clarify, a thermistor and a PTC fuse are not the same thing.  What you want is a PTC fuse.  A thermistor is a similar device, but different in application.  Thermistors are typically used to measure temperature where PTC fuses are used to limit current.  When looking for parts in English, you want to be aware of that difference but that may not be the case in your native language.

Offline micheleCIG

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #78 on: March 07, 2014, 05:35:26 AM »
thank you all guys, you have been very kind and helpfull!

Craig the problem is not the translation, but the fact I know nothing about electronics :)
I got (reading all of you) that the thermistore is a thing and a PTC is an other different thing.
By the way I still don't get Craig's equation (how is that 80% equals the 120%?

I have an other  question for you guys, the 2 ptc in parallel for 1 battery would cause any ripple current or current waste?


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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #79 on: June 20, 2014, 04:00:22 AM »
Added 0603 led switched on the fire button to that little hole on the bottom on my AA break4050
sealed it in with a piece of opaque silicon and clear epoxy  lense looks great.
Woot soldering 0603 things lol
Fits perfect in the hole
Added one to the evercool mod too
without the lense its hella bright

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kingbright/APT1608SGC/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsQtlBhqKq43RewQI%2fZL5kT



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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #80 on: June 20, 2014, 08:54:27 AM »
Added 0603 led switched on the fire button to that little hole on the bottom on my AA break4050
sealed it in with a piece of opaque silicon and clear epoxy  lenses looks great.
Woot soldering 0603 things lol
Fits perfect in the hole
Added one to the evercool mod too
without the lenses its hella bright

Looking good  :thumbsup:
Now we know what that hole is for  :laughing:

Offline CraigHB

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #81 on: June 20, 2014, 03:09:04 PM »
Woot soldering 0603 things lol

That's about the smallest I can go comfortably.  I do the 0402 stuff because I need the density, but I don't like working with those, too small, try to avoid it.

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #82 on: June 20, 2014, 03:30:34 PM »
I dropped one couldn't find it, was my only red too
I tinned the 30ga wire put the led on top touched the tinned wire, soldered lol
I melted the plastic case on others I has solid technique now
no other way to do it without being on a board and using a scope with an iron
Coudn't imagine trying the 0402 leds let alone resistors and caps etc
like a spec of sand lol
it blew me away how bright they are

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #83 on: June 20, 2014, 04:36:17 PM »
They are super bright and super tiny. Nice going w/ the soldering.
I would probably inhale the 0603 Led while I was leaning over to solder it.

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Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
« Reply #84 on: June 20, 2014, 06:43:38 PM »
The 0402 stuff is hard to handle even with a sharp set of tweezers and 10x mag.  Even with the 0603 stuff, you drop one, it's gone. 

Yeah, those small surface mount LEDs are just as bright as the through hole ones.  The light emitting part is actually really small even for the through hole LEDs.  The difference is they have a nice reflector behind the diode and a lens so they diffuse a lot better.

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