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Breaktru Forum  |  eCigarette Forum  |  Modding  |  Topic: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
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Author Topic: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making  (Read 243102 times)

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Online Breaktru

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #400 on: October 08, 2013, 03:26:45 PM »
I got a box full from my old man about 15-20 years ago. I don't have that many left so I treat them as gold now.

I don't know if these are the same but they sure look like them. They are a 10A rating

SilverTronic

Mueller

Offline vallentin

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #401 on: October 08, 2013, 04:01:14 PM »

SilverTronic

Mueller

Nope. I have those and they're crap (misalign from time to time).
This is what we need to get:


Got mine from tme.eu (last image location). Crocodile, not gator clips/
Better yet: http://www.fasttech.com/product/1095700-test-alligator-crocodile-clips-clamps-large-size
$2.56 / 20 large size pack
Hope it helps
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 04:08:34 PM by vallentin »

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #402 on: October 08, 2013, 04:10:46 PM »
Got mine from tme.eu (last image location). Crocodile, not gator clips/
Hope it helps

Thanks for the heads up about the clips.
It depends on where you are from. Here in the USA we called them Alligator. Elsewhere they are called Crocodile.
Although in the USA they do sell both and they are totally different styles as shown below in attachment....
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 01:14:25 PM by Breaktru »

Offline MidnighToker

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #403 on: October 09, 2013, 09:07:00 AM »
Got mine from tme.eu (last image location). Crocodile, not gator clips/
Better yet: http://www.fasttech.com/product/1095700-test-alligator-crocodile-clips-clamps-large-size
$2.56 / 20 large size pack
Hope it helps
Thanks for the reminder!!!  I think that I ordered some of those from FastTech a while back and they got buried in the black-hole-of-parts-that-I-really-don't -need-but -might-be-able-to-use-someday (BHOPTIRDNBMBATUS for short)  ;cheers;

Offline katrev

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #404 on: October 09, 2013, 09:17:28 AM »
I got good results soldering small pieces of copper  inside the jaws ( from a copper sheet) ,but even better results using binding posts instead :)

Online Breaktru

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #405 on: October 09, 2013, 04:05:06 PM »
Butt Weld

This is my most successful welding technique. It's a 3 weld process but is stronger and it does not break when winding the coils. The first 2 weld attempts melt both NR wire and Kanthal/Nichrome ends causing a mushroom end. The 3rd attempt does the actual welding.  I mentioned it a while back but here are some photos shown below (members only). The bottom photo is where I get my NR wire from. It's a single strand from a stranded 18 gauge wire.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 04:31:12 PM by Breaktru »

Offline MidnighToker

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #406 on: October 09, 2013, 05:00:59 PM »
Butt Weld

This is my most successful welding technique. It's a 3 weld process but is stronger and it does not break when winding the coils. The first 2 weld attempts melt both NR wire and Kanthal/Nichrome ends causing a mushroom end. The 3rd attempt does the actual welding.  I mentioned it a while back but here are some photos shown below (members only). The bottom photo is where I get my NR wire from. It's a stranded 18 gauge wire.
So you are intentionally breaking the first 2 welds off to give you that "mushroom" for the final weld?  That;s about what my successful welds have been, only I was not intentionally breaking them. LOL

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #407 on: October 09, 2013, 05:18:27 PM »
I'm not breaking off the first 2 welds. The first 2 just arc and melt and usually by the 3rd weld it tacts complete.
With the overlapping method I find that the NR wire past the weld has weakened and it sometimes breaks during wrapping. Not the weld but the wire.

It helps using a Magnifier Visor matching up the butt ends

Offline werkkrew

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #408 on: October 10, 2013, 09:39:06 AM »
Really looking forward to the parts list and schematic for the new and improved unit!

Offline MidnighToker

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #409 on: October 10, 2013, 02:03:57 PM »
It helps using a Magnifier Visor matching up the butt ends
LMAO!!!

At this point, my eyes are so bad that I HAVE to use my magnifying lamp to even attempt this.  (and yet I can hit a bullseye @ 25 yard with a 45  :Thinking:)

Offline vallentin

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #410 on: October 10, 2013, 05:33:22 PM »
I'm not breaking off the first 2 welds. The first 2 just arc and melt and usually by the 3rd weld it tacts complete.

What voltage you use for  the first 2 welds and what voltage for the third?
Thanks!

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #411 on: October 10, 2013, 06:42:49 PM »
Same voltage for all 3 welds. Use the same voltage that you are using for your overlap welds. I use 74v with 340uF caps. Also depends on the gauge wires you are using. Your setup may require a different voltage. Trial and error is what should be used.

Offline vallentin

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #412 on: October 11, 2013, 02:11:43 PM »
Got it!
Thanks again!

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #413 on: October 11, 2013, 06:07:11 PM »
Whew! I finally completed and test the new Spark-O-Matic with the Voltage and Ohm meter.
It's working very well and is pretty accurate I must say.
See the attached photos below (logged on members only) - Click on photo to enlarge
« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 07:46:36 AM by Breaktru »

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #414 on: October 11, 2013, 06:11:12 PM »
See attached schematic for the new version.
Please, if you are going to make one... give credit where credit is due.
I see a lot of folks have copied the previous version and hawked it as there own creation.  raged:
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 07:25:52 AM by Breaktru »

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #415 on: October 12, 2013, 02:56:34 PM »
Ooopps!, I knew I forgot something. I had intentions to put in a 510 connector. Well anyway here it is.....

Offline iWrong

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #416 on: October 22, 2013, 12:30:11 PM »
See attached schematic for the new version.
Breaktru explain, please.
I see point marked as P1, P2, P3 and Row P0 on schematic.  Something connected to these?

Online Breaktru

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #417 on: October 22, 2013, 01:57:37 PM »
Breaktru explain, please.
I see point marked as P1, P2, P3 and Row P0 on schematic.  Something connected to these?

The PMLCDL meter comes with a solder bridge between P1 and P0. This is for the decimal point place. It seems to work fine for both the 20v and  the 200v scale.

Offline charming

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #418 on: October 23, 2013, 07:42:18 AM »
Very good breaktru. Very cool adding an ohm meter option  :thumbsup:

Offline The Goldfish

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #419 on: October 23, 2013, 11:25:02 AM »
That is a righteous build. Very nicely done!

Offline Puff

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #420 on: November 07, 2013, 11:13:22 PM »
New to the forum and been trying to reed a lot. Is the a thread on just the DIY ohm reader. I did a search and came up with nothing.

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #421 on: November 08, 2013, 06:23:02 AM »
New to the forum and been trying to reed a lot. Is the a thread on just the DIY ohm reader. I did a search and came up with nothing.

Welcome Puff. Here's one: Ohmmeter

Offline Visus

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #422 on: November 13, 2013, 08:32:11 AM »
wow uber solidfy basted workstation worthy of a vapian dynasty golden wand

Offline vallentin

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #423 on: November 15, 2013, 05:19:09 PM »
Same voltage for all 3 welds. Use the same voltage that you are using for your overlap welds. I use 74v with 340uF caps. Also depends on the gauge wires you are using. Your setup may require a different voltage. Trial and error is what should be used.

Got about 15 meters of wrapping wire (silvered copper) from a DIY jewlery store and I finally got mushroom welds just like yours, Breaktru.
Thanks again for the info!

Online Breaktru

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #424 on: November 15, 2013, 08:25:27 PM »
Good news vall  :thumbsup:

Offline Ransom

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #425 on: November 21, 2013, 09:44:22 PM »
In this diagram  http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=733.0;attach=1872;image 

I am assuming Plus and minus refer to the positive and negative from the battery and On/Off refer to the charging switch?

Offline jomurp

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #426 on: November 22, 2013, 05:30:11 PM »
In this diagram  http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=733.0;attach=1872;image 

I am assuming Plus and minus refer to the positive and negative from the battery and On/Off refer to the charging switch?

Is that the same flash camera board that you are using. It looks different than the Kodak and Fuji boards.
The Plus goes to the battery positive. The Minus to the battery negative and it looks like the on/off charges the board. That photo was posted by vallentin. Maybe you should ask him.

Offline vallentin

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #427 on: November 23, 2013, 03:24:21 PM »
In this diagram  http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=733.0;attach=1872;image 

I am assuming Plus and minus refer to the positive and negative from the battery and On/Off refer to the charging switch?

Yes!
But like I said, my board is a little bit different than the standard one, that's how I did it, but the principle remains the same.
A little common sense and you're good to go.
BTW, that board came from a reusable Kodak camera.
I don't know why it's that different, but it is, and it works!

Offline Ransom

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #428 on: November 24, 2013, 02:49:40 AM »
Yes I have two of that board, its from a newer fuji camera.  The circuit is straight forward I just cant seem to get the switch to make it charge for some reason :(   I did order several of the older kodak boards though.

Offline binhdo

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #429 on: December 06, 2013, 02:59:11 AM »
breaktru, do you have a complete parts list of your build with the digital panel meter and where to buy the parts? i don't know where to find the push buttons, switches, and what type of wire to use. per the diagram there are 1x AA and 2x 9V batteries, am i wrong? according to the pictures of the unit, there seems to be only 1x 9v battery.

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #430 on: December 06, 2013, 09:49:44 AM »
breaktru, do you have a complete parts list of your build with the digital panel meter and where to buy the parts? i don't know where to find the push buttons, switches, and what type of wire to use. per the diagram there are 1x AA and 2x 9V batteries, am i wrong? according to the pictures of the unit, there seems to be only 1x 9v battery.

There are TWO 9v batteries. They are stacked on top of each other. That is why it looks like only one in the photo.
All the parts needed can be FOUND RIGHT HERE

Offline binhdo

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #431 on: December 09, 2013, 01:12:38 AM »
There are TWO 9v batteries. They are stacked on top of each other. That is why it looks like only one in the photo.
All the parts needed can be FOUND RIGHT HERE

thanks breaktru, could you also include the 200 ohm multiturn trimmer?

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #432 on: December 09, 2013, 07:00:31 AM »
thanks breaktru, could you also include the 200 ohm multiturn trimmer?

If you want to buy from the same supplier (All Electronics), they don't have a multi-turn 200 ohm trimmer. Use the 500 ohm or you can buy 200 ohm from any electronic supplier like Digikey or Mouser or Newark or Arrow
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 07:06:29 AM by Breaktru »

Offline CraigHB

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #433 on: December 11, 2013, 04:01:45 AM »
That link for the hookup wire at All Electronics is really good.  They have by far the best prices I've found for that stuff and we all use the crap out of it.

Offline BTO2013

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #434 on: December 14, 2013, 06:26:23 AM »
Hi Breaktru or anyone who may be able to help

I have all the parts for the Spark-O-Matic
I can not get the PMLCDL to work at all
I have tried to follow the schematic in Post #414, but I am missing something
I am not going to be adding the Ohm Meter, so I have been bypassing that part of it
But, connecting directly to the PMLCDL or trying to add in resistors as stated isn't working out for me.
I am not getting any real readings,, nothing even remotely close

My Etek 10709 reads and works perfectly

So, I have the flash board setup, this flash board http://www.allelectronics.com/index.php?page=item&id=FSH-12
they come with a 160uF Cap, so one board stopped working I took the cap off it and paralleled it to a second board
So I have 320uF

I have the Discharge Button with a 15K 1/2W Resistor
Everything works as it should, except this panel.

I hook up a 9V batt to the PMLCDL and then try taking a reading by itself, and it either jumps all over the place
and it drains the cap
or it goes blank, or reads 1 .

No matter where in the circuit I try to take a reading.

I am just not sure what resistors to add or where, that would possibly make this thing work.
I know I am missing something, just not sure where.

Any help and I would be grateful.

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #435 on: December 14, 2013, 01:23:24 PM »
Hopefully the PML-CDL panel meter is not damaged. Blank or 1 may indicate that.
Anyway... the diagram that came with the meter is puzzling for sure and I found a problem with it.

I set mine up for the 200v range. The diagram indicates to solder a jumper between P3 and P0. That did not work. I used P1 and P0 and it worked fine. Make sure that ONLY P1 and P0 is jumped and not any other "P" connections.

Did you buy the additional resistor Kit?
Place a 10K resistor OVER the smd resistor at "RA" Do not remove the smd just solder over it.
Remove the shunt smd at "RB" and solder in a 9.99 Meg resistor in its place.
The resistor are in the optional kit.

This meter does NOT work with common grounds so do NOT tie in the negatives from the flashboard to the neg of the 9V for the meter.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 01:49:24 PM by Breaktru »

Offline BTO2013

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #436 on: December 14, 2013, 04:12:54 PM »
That was perfect, thank you
This thing works excellent. With the Charge and discharge buttons, I can get the voltage I want.
The meter is working now, I was using the 100Kohm at RA (whooppss)
And my soldering iron gets way too hot and the tip is caked with solder
I haven't soldered in a really long time, so I am reluctant to show any pictures but I will
to show what a solder job should NOT look like.

Now I just need to jam this thing into a box.

Thank you Breaktru for the explanation, it is much appreciated
All credit goes to the people in this thread that made this possible.


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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #437 on: December 14, 2013, 05:40:58 PM »
Great BTO, glad it worked out. Glad it wasn't a bad meter. The first one I got was D.O.A. had the "1......" displayed.
If you plan to do some more modding, you should seriously look into getting a soldering station. There are several topics that address them on this forum.

Offline BTO2013

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #438 on: December 15, 2013, 12:31:04 AM »
haha,, yeah,, that solder job is horrible.
But, honestly, I have seen worse. :P
I had to resolder the resistors  raged: , flux helped,  :wallbash:

About 80V is magic for me,,,



Not the most pretty box in the world, but it's functional
I had some issues with the 3 SPST Rocker Switch I chose.
So, there is not on/off switch yet, can't wrap my head around the wiring.
It's a 16A 12V and I think maybe the batteries aren't enough power or, probably my wiring
I have tried every combo I can think of.

http://www.allelectronics.com/index.php?page=item&id=LRS-28B

I have another PMLCDL board, and 3 more flash boards
But I think I will look at getting a Fuji camera board, these boards I picked up are too big.
and other parts, I am going to try making another one when I get  new soldering station.

Thanks for the help again and the time you put in on this for us. It's awesome.

Offline ChainVaper

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #439 on: December 15, 2013, 08:38:01 AM »
 :rockin smiley: Cool. congrats on your spark-o-matic BTO  :thumbsup:
Did you use the same parts from allelectronics.com that breaktru linked to? The push buttons and the banana jacks look the same.

Offline BTO2013

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #440 on: December 15, 2013, 05:26:53 PM »
Yeah, everything from allelectronics.com, except the PMLCDL and the Resistor pack from Jameco, this post, http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,733.msg6261.html#msg6261
The rest from the list in this post,, http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,733.msg8251.html#msg8251

so, for that switch, would I be wasting my time trying to make it work?
I have 3 of them. I bought multiples of everything, never know if something will be broken, or I will break it.
I melted a couple push button switches with my junk iron.

I decided on the http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-Digital-Soldering-FX-888D/dp/B00ANZRT4M/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1387141380&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=Hakko+FX888D+Digital+Soldering+Station#productDetails

And some Electronic Learning Kit.
It's been a while since I played with Electronics, since the early 90's
But I still remember some of it.

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #441 on: December 15, 2013, 07:37:49 PM »

so, for that switch, would I be wasting my time trying to make it work?
I have 3 of them. I bought multiples of everything, never know if something will be broken, or I will break it.
I melted a couple push button switches with my junk iron.

I decided on the http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-Digital-Soldering-FX-888D/dp/B00ANZRT4M/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1387141380&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=Hakko+FX888D+Digital+Soldering+Station#productDetails


You won't be sorry with Hakko station.

Wait for the station before soldering in the on/off switch.
Just put it between the battery and the F.B. You can break either the (+) or (-)

Offline BTO2013

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #442 on: December 15, 2013, 08:07:05 PM »
Where I am running into the issue is trying to set it up to run both the 1.5v and 9v, But I can't get that working,,
Got the 1.5v side to the board working, but not enough power to turn on the LED on it
The 9V will work sort of, but I think I am going to have to go with 2 switches, one for the flash board, one for the panel

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #443 on: December 15, 2013, 08:47:58 PM »
The switch you linked to requires 12v to turn on the L.E.D. so obviously 1.5v and 9v (dim glow) won't do it.
The switch is a S.P.S.T. so you would need two. One for each battery. Do NOT tie in the negatives of the 1.5v and 9v batteries if you were thinking of using only one switch and using the PML-CDL. You can use that switch but the L.E.D. won't work as designed.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 10:04:21 PM by Breaktru »

Offline BTO2013

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #444 on: December 15, 2013, 11:40:41 PM »
Ok, so I had to use my second PMLCDL as the first I think bit the dust. I know it was my fault though.
This second one went real easy and is a lot cleaner, even with my junky soldering iron. I think it's set at about 800 degrees.  :wallbash:

I figured out that yeah, I got the wrong switches and they are way too big for 2 of them
I need to research switches a bit more to find the right one.
I was hoping to have one switch for both the Panel and the F.B.
A quick search isn't producing much help though, I am going to have to dig for it. getting crazy results.
Any recommendations on a good on/off switch for the SOM to control both?
I looked through the links you provided earlier. I have an idea of which one I need, but I am not familiar with switches yet.

It has been since the early 90's that I have played with stuff like this, and we didn't have this kind of internet back then :P

I saw the subject on Alligator Clips, these are the ones that I use for welding, they work very well...
CLIP MICRO ALLIGATOR COPPER 5A
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 11:51:49 PM by BTO2013 »

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #445 on: December 16, 2013, 06:49:54 AM »
Ok, so I had to use my second PMLCDL as the first I think bit the dust. I know it was my fault though.
This second one went real easy and is a lot cleaner, even with my junky soldering iron. I think it's set at about 800 degrees.  :wallbash:

I figured out that yeah, I got the wrong switches and they are way too big for 2 of them
I need to research switches a bit more to find the right one.
I was hoping to have one switch for both the Panel and the F.B.
A quick search isn't producing much help though, I am going to have to dig for it. getting crazy results.
Any recommendations on a good on/off switch for the SOM to control both?
I looked through the links you provided earlier. I have an idea of which one I need, but I am not familiar with switches yet.

It has been since the early 90's that I have played with stuff like this, and we didn't have this kind of internet back then :P

I saw the subject on Alligator Clips, these are the ones that I use for welding, they work very well...
CLIP MICRO ALLIGATOR COPPER 5A

For your setup, use a DPST or DPDT on/off switch to break the two batteries. Digikey DPDT, Mouser DPST, Allelectronics DPDT
Before ordering look at the datasheets for the physical size dimensions.

Clean up your iron tip and use flux before soldering. Avoid excessive heat by not holding your iron on the part too long. Thin the wire and the sw lug before soldering the wire to the sw lug.

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #446 on: December 16, 2013, 10:08:31 PM »
I really appreciate the help.
Measurements? uhg, dude.........  :thumbsdwn2: hehe

I won't be doing any more soldering till I get the Hakko.
I also want to find a smaller flash board if I can, so I am going to get a Fuji disposable as that seems to have fit your box.
The ones that I got are an odd shape and I don't think I can cut off any parts off it to make it fit. FLASH ASSEMBLY

I will get back to this around the first of the year. too much going on now.

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #447 on: February 10, 2014, 10:07:52 PM »
 hay buddy I really have been reading all your great info you really do a great job! Im building my first wire welder and having problems I have a aaa fugi board wired to 306 uf on caps with a single double a battery and max volts is 36 or 40 please help I have spent a lot of time on this sucker! Thank you so much
 Chad

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #448 on: February 10, 2014, 10:28:51 PM »
Hey Chad, Thanks.
I used the same AAA Fuji board and used a single AA battery like you. The max output should be over 300VDC. Are you reading with a multimeter? Is the scale/setting on your M/M correct? Did you triple check your wiring to the drawing?

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
« Reply #449 on: February 10, 2014, 10:39:20 PM »
I hope so im using a fluke 117 when I stack the caps the uf reads 306ish but when I power up it maxs at 39 and will drop fast when I release the charge button . To fast to make a weld do I have my resistor backwards?  Im green as hell to circuit board soldering . Dose anything seem out of the normal with out seeing it (: I cant sent a pik from my ohine to the forum

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