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Breaktru Forum  |  eCigarette Forum  |  Modding  |  Topic: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
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Author Topic: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making  (Read 251521 times)

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Offline bapgood

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #50 on: January 15, 2013, 06:48:47 PM »
Too bad some of us can't acquire a $#!+ load of used cameras. We can salvage the caps too.

Anyway......  It was ONE 220uF added and before that was TWO 100uF's in parallel = 200uF.

Assuming my flash circuit has already a 120uF and I paralleled the 220uF. The total value is 340uF.
You would need to add TWO more 120uF caps for a total of 360uF

Ok....gotcha....dang....buying two more doesn't sound as nice....hmmm maybe ill try walmart and a camera shop and offer up some dough

Offline jmarkus

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2013, 06:59:21 PM »
i guess ill try adding 1 and 2 more caps from the 20 or so camera husks i have. NICE!!

 ;cheers;

Offline jmarkus

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #52 on: January 15, 2013, 07:00:43 PM »
Ok....gotcha....dang....buying two more doesn't sound as nice....hmmm maybe ill try walmart and a camera shop and offer up some dough

baps, hit me up if you want some cams.

Offline bapgood

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #53 on: January 15, 2013, 07:12:07 PM »
baps, hit me up if you want some cams.

jmarkus i accidentally smited you....I'm not actually sure what that means  ??? so feel free to smite me back

I'm going to poke around town and see what I can come up with. I'll hit you up if I can't come up with anything, thanks!

Offline jmarkus

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #54 on: January 15, 2013, 07:56:23 PM »
jmarkus i accidentally smited you....I'm not actually sure what that means  ??? so feel free to smite me back

I'm going to poke around town and see what I can come up with. I'll hit you up if I can't come up with anything, thanks!

HAHAHA, i want a smote button. ill find a way...

Offline bapgood

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #55 on: January 15, 2013, 08:30:11 PM »
Breaktru,
Do you think this will work? It's gd huge!!!





« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 08:41:52 PM by bapgood »

Online Breaktru

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2013, 08:53:16 PM »
You can try it and let us know. Probably take long to charge

Offline bapgood

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2013, 08:58:20 PM »
You can try it and let us know. Probably take long to charge

I'm not doubting I just have a question about the size. Is the uF the capacity? Its only 530uF but its size seems way larger compared to the 120uF....old tech maybe???

IDK I might try it.

Online Breaktru

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2013, 10:41:38 PM »
I'm not doubting I just have a question about the size. Is the uF the capacity? Its only 530uF but its size seems way larger compared to the 120uF....old tech maybe???

IDK I might try it.

The "uF" is micro farad which is the capacitance size.
Old tech caps for high voltage rating of a capacitor was to increase the thickness of the dielectric making the physical size larger. Not true with new tech. Technology has changed. I bought some caps to replace in my old tube amp and the new 450v caps were 1/4 smaller than the originals

Offline bapgood

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #59 on: January 15, 2013, 10:45:14 PM »
Thanks....makes sense.... And the reason for being slow to charge is that two caps in parallel will charge faster then one large cap

Offline WarLion

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #60 on: January 15, 2013, 11:17:43 PM »
well I didn't find a fuji but I find a kodak almost the same a few small changes and test with 32awg nickel wire and 32awg kanthal it works perfect

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #61 on: January 16, 2013, 09:08:20 AM »
well I didn't find a fuji but I find a kodak almost the same a few small changes and test with 32awg nickel wire and 32awg kanthal it works perfect

Great WL. Happy that it worked good. Now we know that nickel wire works too. Did you use an additional cap and at what voltage?
 Yes it shouldn't matter which brand camera to use.

Extreme difference in material and gauges can be troublesome.
A perfect voltage for one wire may not be right for the wire being joined to it. One may melt while the other has just a burn mark.

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #62 on: January 16, 2013, 09:50:47 AM »
Thanks....makes sense.... And the reason for being slow to charge is that two caps in parallel will charge faster then one large cap

Regardless of two paralleled or one cap, it's the larger capacitance that will take longer to charge the cap.
The flash circuitry has high voltage but the amperage is low so it takes time to charge up.

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #63 on: January 16, 2013, 09:51:50 AM »
For those that are looking for the so called "Magic" 75v, I want to make something clear..........
75v worked for the capacitance that I used. If you are using more or less capacitance, your "Magic" voltage will be different. Trial and error will determine your "Magic" number.
340uF @ 74v-75v works best for me.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 10:27:34 AM by Breaktru »

Offline bapgood

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2013, 12:43:19 PM »
Breaktru,
Doesn't seem like my power supply ideas are taking....but one of my old pc power supplies has a couple 460uf 200v caps. Would using one of those work as long as the voltage stayed under 200v? If so how hard would it be to regulate under 200v?

Thanks for all the knowledge!!!

Offline jmarkus

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2013, 01:25:10 PM »
no matter what i do, silver wont work. id love to see a video, or at least a pic of a silver wire that actually welded to another wire...im starting to think its not possible.

Offline bapgood

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #66 on: January 16, 2013, 01:28:19 PM »
no matter what i do, silver wont work. id love to see a video, or at least a pic of a silver wire that actually welded to another wire...im starting to think its not possible.

JM with a bunch of cameras do you have it set up similar to Breaktru with more capacitors and using less voltage?

*edit* seen ecf post....what about wire thicknesses?

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #67 on: January 16, 2013, 02:03:39 PM »
no matter what i do, silver wont work. id love to see a video, or at least a pic of a silver wire that actually welded to another wire...im starting to think its not possible.

I just came out of my work shop and made several 30ga Silver .999 to 32ga Nichrome and some 30ga Silver .999 to 28ga Kanthal. All done the first shot with the magic 75v and a total capacitance of 340uF. Oh BTW just found out that the on board cap for the FujiFilm is 120uF. 220 + 120 = 340uF.

After using this thing for a few days, you get the hang of it. The hardest thing for me is getting an over-lap tack. I even have one lead set in a vise clamp so not to be too shaky. I found a solution to the single point tack. I take a piece of copper strand and tack weld along the adjacent wires. Good solid connection. It's like spot welding.

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #68 on: January 16, 2013, 02:11:10 PM »
Breaktru,
Doesn't seem like my power supply ideas are taking....but one of my old pc power supplies has a couple 460uf 200v caps. Would using one of those work as long as the voltage stayed under 200v? If so how hard would it be to regulate under 200v?

Thanks for all the knowledge!!!

That power supply may make a nice battery tab spot welder. Seems like over kill for just some measly coil wires.

BTW: I tried spot welding metal tabs for possible battery spot welding with the Spark-O-Matic w/ nails as probes. Not enough juice. Maybe if I had thinner or different metal type. I tried it on some roof flashing I had laying around the garage.

Offline bapgood

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2013, 02:23:39 PM »
That power supply may make a nice battery tab spot welder. Seems like over kill for just some measly coil wires.

BTW: I tried spot welding metal tabs for possible battery spot welding with the Spark-O-Matic w/ nails as probes. Not enough juice. Maybe if I had thinner or different metal type. I tried it on some roof flashing I had laying around the garage.

Well up untill a few minutes ago I didn't have any extra parts.....but that isn't the case anymore  :D

But I would love a battery tab welder!!! I have several pc power supplies as well as some 12v, 24v, and a single 48 volt meanwell power supplies.

Offline bapgood

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2013, 02:53:55 PM »
Just as an FYI

Like most have indicated the fuji doesn't have any plain markings (Breaktru reported finding out they are 120uF)

The Polaroid, Westen Family, and Kodak cameras I have been inside of, all have labeled 120uf 330v caps






Offline jmarkus

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #71 on: January 16, 2013, 03:00:11 PM »
JM with a bunch of cameras do you have it set up similar to Breaktru with more capacitors and using less voltage?

*edit* seen ecf post....what about wire thicknesses?

i tried adding 1 120uf 330v, and then a second 100uf 300v i think it was...definately makes it more stable and sits at voltages longer...but for some reason silver isnt sticking at all. hmm...guess ill just keep zapping away till i do get it. 75v's seem to work great for all other wire i have, nickel is on its way so ill find out about that end of the week.

Offline bapgood

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #72 on: January 16, 2013, 03:05:49 PM »
i tried adding 1 120uf 330v, and then a second 100uf 300v i think it was...definately makes it more stable and sits at voltages longer...but for some reason silver isnt sticking at all. hmm...guess ill just keep zapping away till i do get it. 75v's seem to work great for all other wire i have, nickel is on its way so ill find out about that end of the week.

Well I joined the stock pile club today so I should be flashing wires together soon....probably spend tonight taking cameras apart :D.....I have no idea how many I have beside more than enough

But I don't have any of 99% dead soft wire....I'll have to get some coming to try

I plan on building my first unit with 3x120uF caps for 360uf total...that should get close to Breaktru's 340uF and 75v sweet spot

Offline WarLion

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #73 on: January 16, 2013, 03:14:31 PM »
Great WL. Happy that it worked good. Now we know that nickel wire works too. Did you use an additional cap and at what voltage?
 Yes it shouldn't matter which brand camera to use.

Extreme difference in material and gauges can be troublesome.
A perfect voltage for one wire may not be right for the wire being joined to it. One may melt while the other has just a burn mark.

i use the original cap from the kodak camera , i press the push bottom for 4 sec and wait about a sec the voltage drop to 120v and work perfect for 32awg nickel and 32awg kanthal

testing this i get hit and fuc** it really hurt lol

« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 03:34:48 PM by WarLion »

Offline MidnighToker

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #74 on: January 16, 2013, 04:37:00 PM »
Yeah, you were right about the voltage of those caps.  The voltage seems to be WAY too low.  Only tried briefly, but could not get a decent charge from them added in parallel.  Still have a few 35v caps to try later on.

And for the record....yeah, 250 volts stings like a motherfucker!  I need to tape up the clips that I'm using cuz the insulation SUCKS! 

I have gotten a few successful welds just out of the stock flash assembly (using 32ga Kanthal and I think 30ga .999 silver), but have yet to get any consistency between welds.

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #75 on: January 16, 2013, 05:52:33 PM »
i use the original cap from the kodak camera , i press the push bottom for 4 sec and wait about a sec the voltage drop to 120v and work perfect for 32awg nickel and 32awg kanthal

testing this i get hit and fuc** it really hurt lol

Very good WL. Nice video. I'm uploading one right now.
So far I haven't zapped myself....... yet.

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #76 on: January 16, 2013, 06:19:36 PM »
30 Gauge Silver .999 pure wire to 28 Gauge Kanthal A1 wire


Offline WarLion

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #77 on: January 16, 2013, 06:24:51 PM »
Breaktru nice vid

Offline jmarkus

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #78 on: January 16, 2013, 06:58:51 PM »
30 Gauge Silver .999 pure wire to 28 Gauge Kanthal A1 wire



amazing! so...i can see that when you say stable, you mean stable. even with the addition of 2 other caps, mine is always slowly dropping in voltage....never stable like your video. think i may just use a new fuji board to see if thatll fix the voltage drop.

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #79 on: January 16, 2013, 07:47:57 PM »
amazing! so...i can see that when you say stable, you mean stable. even with the addition of 2 other caps, mine is always slowly dropping in voltage....never stable like your video. think i may just use a new fuji board to see if thatll fix the voltage drop.

What's your total capacitance?

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #80 on: January 16, 2013, 09:45:17 PM »
What's your total capacitance?

im using 1 100uf 330v, 1 120uf 330v and whatever is in the flash chip, unlabeled..maybe 120uf?

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #81 on: January 16, 2013, 11:11:19 PM »
im using 1 100uf 330v, 1 120uf 330v and whatever is in the flash chip, unlabeled..maybe 120uf?

Okay, you have the same capacitance as me. Try over shooting by going to 90v and let it drop. It should stabilize at some point.
Are these used caps? and are they electrolytic. They should have polarity markings.

Offline bapgood

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #82 on: January 16, 2013, 11:55:38 PM »
Breaktru, was your Fuji board a aaa? It looks to me like the Fuji cameras come in aaa or aa and the aa have a longer capacitor the same diameter as the aaa. I'm not sure if that means its a different size.

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #83 on: January 17, 2013, 12:30:05 AM »
Okay, you have the same capacitance as me. Try over shooting by going to 90v and let it drop. It should stabilize at some point.
Are these used caps? and are they electrolytic. They should have polarity markings.

just ripped em out of the cameras, they do have polarity markings. even when over shooting to 90v, it still drops and never stabilizes.

edit: just tried 2 more flash boards and few other caps to see if any combo would eventually stabilize, no luck.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 02:13:12 AM by jmarkus »

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #84 on: January 17, 2013, 08:02:21 AM »
just ripped em out of the cameras, they do have polarity markings. even when over shooting to 90v, it still drops and never stabilizes.

edit: just tried 2 more flash boards and few other caps to see if any combo would eventually stabilize, no luck.

Are you using an Anolog Meter? or a DMM. Are the connections SOLID ? When I had my cap on w/ a jumper wire I noticed dropping voltage. After I soldered it in, I was stable.

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #85 on: January 17, 2013, 10:06:31 AM »
Are you using an Anolog Meter? or a DMM. Are the connections SOLID ? When I had my cap on w/ a jumper wire I noticed dropping voltage. After I soldered it in, I was stable.

ah, ok...ill go ahead and solder the caps on to see if that makes a difference. im using a dmm.

Offline bushmasterar15

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #86 on: January 17, 2013, 11:02:19 AM »
This is something that I'd need. But I don't think I'd be able to make this as I don't have a solder iron. If anyone might be making a few please let me know.

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #87 on: January 17, 2013, 12:41:14 PM »
soldering the caps makes no difference that i can tell....hmm, still seems to be the same drop.

baps, can you try and see if youre experiencing the same voltage drop with the flash boards and a few caps?

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #88 on: January 17, 2013, 12:52:09 PM »
soldering the caps makes no difference that i can tell....hmm, still seems to be the same drop.

baps, can you try and see if youre experiencing the same voltage drop with any flash board and a few caps?

Will do I planned on soldering from the beginning, going to try to get it together tonight. I believe Breaktru started with AAA Fuji board and added a single 220uF capacitor, so I'm also going to start with a AAA Fuji (but use a AA battery) and add a 120uF and 100uF cap to try to match Breaktru as close as possible. I went through all my flashes and came up with a couple with 100uF caps and like three with 80uF caps. The Fuji's seem to come in a AA version and a AAA version, everything looks identical except for the battery holder and the AA version has a longer cap of the same diameter as the AAA.

Breaktru,
What size resistor did you use for the discharge button? And did you just add it between the + and - of the cap?

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #89 on: January 17, 2013, 12:58:49 PM »
Breaktru,
What size resistor did you use for the discharge button? And did you just add it between the + and - of the cap?

I used a 15K so it's pretty smooth discharging down the voltage. You can use a 1K but discharge would be faster and you might miss the mark.

The 15K is in series with a tact switch across the output.

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #90 on: January 17, 2013, 02:07:12 PM »
What do you think about something like this?
- Fancy screen
- Screw post for one wire
- Lead and alligator clip for other wire


Offline Pantera

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #91 on: January 17, 2013, 02:09:56 PM »
What do you think about something like this?
- Fancy screen
- Screw post for one wire
- Lead and alligator clip for other wire



Cooool man. Someone has too much free time on there hands.  :rockin smiley:

Offline bapgood

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #92 on: January 17, 2013, 02:13:26 PM »
Cooool man. Someone has too much free time on there hands.  :rockin smiley:

Thanks....It doesn't take to long when you do it all day  :D

Offline Jellyfish

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #93 on: January 17, 2013, 02:18:30 PM »
First Breaktru, thanks for all of the work that you've done in getting the wire welder put together. I've been following the thread here and on ECF for a couple of days now.

I've got a Fuji board that had a AAA battery installed. I'm guessing that the cap is probably around 100 uF from the pictures I've seen and also comparing it to the 120 uF cap from the Kodak board that I scavenged.

I've also got three 220 uF @ 350 V capacitors and three 15 K ohm 2 W resistors coming from eBay.

Is there an advantage to pulling the cap off of the board and swapping in two of the caps for a total of 440 uF? From what I'm seeing, I'd assume that my target voltage for kanthal and silver wire welding would be less that the 70 V that you've been using.

Also, do you think that the bleeder circuit would work better with 30 K ohms?

And last, since I will be using a AA battery as a power source, will a 1.7 V LED work in the power on circuit? It seems to be the lowest voltage LED that my local RadioShack carries.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 02:51:47 PM by Jellyfish »

Online Breaktru

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #94 on: January 17, 2013, 02:23:48 PM »
What do you think about something like this?
- Fancy screen
- Screw post for one wire
- Lead and alligator clip for other wire

Looks really great bap. good work dude

Offline bapgood

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #95 on: January 17, 2013, 02:26:47 PM »
Looks really great bap. good work dude

Thanks....I'm hopping the screw terminal will be nice and secure, leaving less to deal with??? We will see

Offline jmarkus

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #96 on: January 17, 2013, 02:49:10 PM »
What do you think about something like this?
- Fancy screen
- Screw post for one wire
- Lead and alligator clip for other wire




really really nice baps. cant wait for my screen to come in!

Offline bapgood

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #97 on: January 17, 2013, 02:53:49 PM »

really really nice baps. cant wait for my screen to come in!

Thanks, I haven't ordered one yet. I'm impatient so I might just grab a dmm from harbor freight and rig up.

Online Breaktru

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #98 on: January 17, 2013, 03:03:03 PM »
First Breaktru, thanks for all of the work that you've done in getting the wire welder put together. I've been following the thread here and on ECF for a couple of days now.
You are very welcome Jelly and welcome to the forum. The premise of this forum is to share..

I've got a Fuji board that had a AAA battery installed. I'm guessing that the cap is probably around 100 uF from the pictures I've seen and also comparing it to the 120 uF cap from the Kodak board that I scavenged.
As per the narrator in the FUJI CAMERA FLASH MOD video in this thread, the cap is a 120uF

I've also got three 220 uF @ 350 V capacitors and three 150 K ohm 2 W resistors coming from eBay.
What's the 150 K ohm for and why 2W. I used a 15 K. Amperage is low so it can be a small wattage as well as the switch.

Is there an advantage to pulling the cap off of the board and swapping in two of the caps for a total of 440 uF? From what I'm seeing, I'd assume that my target voltage for kanthal and silver wire welding would be less that the 70 V that you've been using.
It's your choice. I use 340uF @ 75v. The same 75v worked for 30ga silver, 32ga Nichrome and 28ga Kanthal
If your going to use a different capacitance (440uF), you'll have to find the right voltage. Also resistance of the leads, connections and length may play a part on the output voltage needed. So experiment.

Also, do you think that the bleeder circuit would work better with 300 K ohms?
You can try it but I'm thinking it would be very slow bleeding down. The 15K worked great for me. Again, experiment.

And last, since I will be using a AA battery as a power source, will a 1.7 V LED work in the power on circuit? It seems to be the lowest voltage LED that my local RadioShack carries.
Thanks!
I went thru a pile of LED's to find one to work on a fresh battery (1.6v). It worked good until this morning when I measured the battery at 1.45v.
So I went through some more LED's and found one that worked w/ the lower voltage.
This morning I went on line and found some that are bright at low voltage. You need a 940nm which is a forward voltage of 1.35v to 1.6v
I opted for highest Radiant intensity.
This is actually an Infrared LED: TSAL5100

Update:
If you are going to install a panel meter, you won't need the ON indication LED and the charge LED is really not necessary.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 03:19:30 PM by Breaktru »

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Re: The Spark-O-Matic - Coil Wire Arc Welding
« Reply #99 on: January 17, 2013, 03:15:36 PM »
Thanks....I'm hopping the screw terminal will be nice and secure, leaving less to deal with??? We will see

Nice touch w/ the stationary post. I find it a lot easier to get a parallel tack weld when I secure one end in my "Helping Hands Soldering Aid" which I show using in the last video. Less hand shaking.

Just my 2 cents. You may want to rethink the screw terminal for something different. It may most likely nick the wire and weaken it.

Breaktru Forum  |  eCigarette Forum  |  Modding  |  Topic: The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making
 

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