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Offline SkyRaider

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Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« on: March 31, 2013, 01:08:01 PM »
I am having trouble with my understanding some of the calc.
If I have a 50/50 VG/PG base, how do I do the drops for the PG less than the VG drops?
Like the calc calls for.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 07:53:41 PM by Breaktru »

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2013, 01:42:29 PM »
I am having trouble with my understanding some of the calc.
If I have a 50/50 VG/PG base, how do I do the drops for the PG less than the VG drops?
Like the calc calls for.

Hi Sky and welcome to the forum.
Not sure I'm fully understanding the question. Are you getting a negative amount for PG? if so you would have seen a popup window with an explanation.

SEE:
How To and Pdf how to
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:02:55 PM by Breaktru »

Offline SkyRaider

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2013, 01:53:39 PM »
No Just don't understand the calc. it has you put in the PG/VG base and nic all as one.
Then tells you to put in the 3 seperate at the bottom ie:the recipe.
I am guessing because the flavor is PG based it is cutting the PG down to keep the 50/50
But the base I have is 50/PG 50/VG no way to reduce the drops for PG
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:03:09 PM by Breaktru »

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2013, 02:17:16 PM »
No Just don't understand the calc. it has you put in the PG/VG base and nic all as one.
Then tells you to put in the 3 seperate at the bottom ie:the recipe.
I am guessing because the flavor is PG based it is cutting the PG down to keep the 50/50
But the base I have is 50/PG 50/VG no way to reduce the drops for PG

The pdf link I posted prior may be clearer as it has a picture explaining each line on the calc.
The first line is for the unflavored nic base. PG and VG and the strength of the nic in mg. This is the nic you bought.
Down below the "Ingredients", the PG/VG is the target ratio of the recipe (what you want your mix to be).
Suggestion, don't use drops. Use a syringe or a graduated cylinder for a more accurate way of measuring.

The flavoring line shows PG and VG. Most flavoring would be 100% PG.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:02:34 PM by Breaktru »

Offline SkyRaider

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2013, 02:58:23 PM »
Did not catch the PDF, see it now will study it some.
I had planned on useing the ml for anything over the 5ml test mix
But still don't get how to change the amount when the PG/VG is together.
IN the PDF it has .83ml PG or 17 drops 70% and 1.5ml VG or 30 drops 30%
Guess I need to find a calc. that does the bases as one or buy the VG/PG not mixed
Thanks for the help
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:03:23 PM by Breaktru »

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2013, 03:22:11 PM »
Did not catch the PDF, see it now will study it some.
I had planned on useing the ml for anything over the 5ml test mix
But still don't get how to change the amount when the PG/VG is together.
IN the PDF it has .83ml PG or 17 drops 70% and 1.5ml VG or 30 drops 30%
Guess I need to find a calc. that does the bases as one or buy the VG/PG not mixed
Thanks for the help

Perhaps you are not understanding the nic and it's ratio.
All nic is cut with some kind of ratio. Tell me what nic you are using. Where you bought it and how it's advertise and I'll tell you how to enter it. Send me a link to it.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:03:53 PM by Breaktru »

Offline SkyRaider

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2013, 04:16:22 PM »
This is the link:
http://shop.wordupecig.com/UnFlavored-Eliquid-Nicotine-Unflavored-Eliquid-Nicotine.htm?productId=49
It is the 50ml size with 48mg of nic.
But that is not where my prob is, the base I ordered is a 50/50 mix of the PG/VG
http://shop.wordupecig.com/Propylene-Glycol-Vegetable-Glycerin-PGVG.htm
The calc wants different amounts of the PG & VG if they are together how can you put a lower amount of PG?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:04:08 PM by Breaktru »

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2013, 04:45:50 PM »

The calc wants different amounts of the PG & VG if they are together how can you put a lower amount of PG?

Explain: "The calc wants different amounts of the PG & VG"

We buy unflavored nic at a higher strength than we make our ejuice recipe so there is room to swing the final (target) PG/VG ratio either higher or lower. The higher the strength of the nic base the more we can go with our final ratio percentage. 50/50 is good because you can go either way with the ratio. Users who buy nic at 100% PG or 100% VG are limited with how far your can swing the ratio. Is it starting to make sense now?

« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:04:20 PM by Breaktru »

Offline SkyRaider

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2013, 05:00:42 PM »
Not Yet   raged:   LOL
Maybe I am not on the same page.
Is the base and the nic 2 different things or does all the base have nic in them.
I am thinking you put X amount of PG and X amount of VG and X amount of Nic.
Not sure how to Explain....at the bottom under Ingredient on the PDF it has
PG 70% - 0.83ml - 17drops - 16.6% of Total   and
VG 30% - 1.5ml - 30drops - 30% of Total
2 diff. amounts but the base I have is 50/50 PG/VG mixed together then I have 48mg nic
can not reduce the PG with it aready mixed at 50/50    :wallbash:
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:04:31 PM by Breaktru »

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2013, 05:15:12 PM »
Not Yet   raged:   LOL
Maybe I am not on the same page.
Is the base and the nic 2 different things or does all the base have nic in them.
I am thinking you put X amount of PG and X amount of VG and X amount of Nic.
Not sure how to Explain....at the bottom under Ingredient on the PDF it has
PG 70% - 0.83ml - 17drops - 16.6% of Total   and
VG 30% - 1.5ml - 30drops - 30% of Total
2 diff. amounts but the base I have is 50/50 PG/VG mixed together then I have 48mg nic
can not reduce the PG with it aready mixed at 50/50    :wallbash:

Okay.. what will your recipe mix nic strength be? If your are not cutting it down from 48mg than it can't be done.

For instance, I'm using 48mg 50/50 nic and I want to make 18mg 30/70. The calc says to add more VG than PG.
Open a few recipes and look at how some of them are done. It may clear things up.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:04:43 PM by Breaktru »

Offline SkyRaider

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2013, 05:44:16 PM »
That is just what I am doing
50/50  48
Target Nic 18
Amount  5ml
but I was doing - Flavor 20%
But we will go with what is on the calc pic 10% Flavor
Then The Resulting Recipe ask for
Nic - 38drops - OK I have that = I put in 38drops of my 48 nic juice
PG - 30% - 1drop - This is what I have the prob with = I can't put - 1 & 51
VG - 70% - 51drops - or 51 & 1 = it is already mixed 50/50
or is it that I would combine the 2 and put in 52drops of the 50/50
No -- That would be 26drops of each PG/VG
Then Put in the 10drops of Flavor
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:04:57 PM by Breaktru »

Offline SkyRaider

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2013, 05:47:39 PM »
If I have stright VG and stright PG It makes since
But not with the 50/50 Vg/Pg mix
Hope You are Following me    :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:05:08 PM by Breaktru »

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2013, 06:08:28 PM »
Okay now where getting somewhere.
You would need 100% PG and 100% VG. You can not use a mixed version of either.
I was not interpreting from your previous posts that you had 50/50 PG/VG that you were adding. I was thinking you were referring to the nic. Sorry for that sky.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:05:24 PM by Breaktru »

Offline SkyRaider

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2013, 06:21:34 PM »
So is there a calc. for the 50/50 or how would I use it?
Did you look at the link I sent.....that is what that is right?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:05:34 PM by Breaktru »

Offline SkyRaider

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2013, 08:35:11 PM »
What do you mean.....I can't use it in the calc or I can't use it at all?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:05:43 PM by Breaktru »

Offline novoleen

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2013, 07:14:49 AM »
What do you mean.....I can't use it in the calc or I can't use it at all?

All is not lost. You can use the 50/50 but you will have to play with the ratio to find a target ratio that will calculate PG/VG as the same amount then add them up. Example calculations of 1ml PG and 1ml of VG. You would then add 2ml of your 50/50.
Normally we buy PG and VG separately and not combined.
In breaktru's defensive, I too thought your were referring to the nic.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:05:53 PM by Breaktru »

Online Breaktru

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2013, 07:24:12 AM »
I doubt that there is any calculator that takes the combined PG/VG into account.

Here is what novoleen is talking about:

Using the attached graphic, add up the 1.06ml of PG + 1.06ml of VG that the calc came up with and add 2.12ml of 50/50 to your mix.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:06:03 PM by Breaktru »

Offline SkyRaider

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2013, 08:06:38 PM »
So I think I may have it   :Thinking:
Are you talking about playing with the PG/VG % at the bottom under Ingredient?
 :thankyou:
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:06:14 PM by Breaktru »

Offline banshee

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2013, 12:54:23 PM »
So I think I may have it   :Thinking:
Are you talking about playing with the PG/VG % at the bottom under Ingredient?
 :thankyou:

He is talking about the PG/VG ratio that you want your juice to be. The sample image shows it at 60 PG and 40 VG
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:06:25 PM by Breaktru »

Offline SkyRaider

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2013, 07:18:29 PM »
OK I did the playing with the #'s and did my first mix.
The #'s I used and got were.....
at the top
Nic Strenght e-Juice PG 50% VG 50% 48mg
Target Nic 18mg
Amount to Make 10ml
Flav 1   20%
At The Bottom
Nic e-Juice   75drops
PG 60%   42drops
VG 40%   42drops
Flav         40drops
But it Only Made 5ml ???
Why Did I Not Get 10ml ???

P.S. How Do You Post The Recipe Card On Here....Like You Guys Are Doing ???
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:06:34 PM by Breaktru »

Offline Mimms

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2013, 07:41:28 PM »
Sky, back in Reply #21, breaktru mentioned not to use DROPS. The reason is that drops are not very accurate. The syringe is an accurate way to measure.
Also, you mentioned that you are using a 50/50 of PG/VG mix. Did you add the 42 drops of PG + 42 drops of VG and add in 84 drops of your 50/50 mix?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:06:44 PM by Breaktru »

Offline SkyRaider

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2013, 07:45:44 PM »
Yes I put 75 nic - 84 PG/VG - 40 flav
I am going to use ml but I don't have a way to masure that way yet....
So I thought I would do a small mix with drops
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:06:53 PM by Breaktru »

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2013, 09:37:14 PM »
If you calibrate your dripper, drops are pretty accurate.  Just have to calibrate for the particular type of bottle and particular fluid.  I use the little 6ml HPDE dripper bottles most e-cig shops carry and they're pretty reliably 40 drops per ml with my nic base and flavorings.  It would be different with VG or PGA since the viscosity is different, but the only thing I drip when mixing is the flavorings and the nic base which are both in PG.  The rest I do with a graduated cylinder.

Offline SkyRaider

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2013, 05:13:28 AM »
Thanks to all
Can see, This is going to take some playing & throwing some out
Just don't want to over due the nic
Will have to start looing for a masure that is in points of a ml
any pointers where to get what I need

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2013, 09:02:09 AM »
Like what Craig said about calibrating drops, you would count how many drops it takes to reach the 1ml mark of a graduated cylinder. Being that you are using 50/50 Nic and 50/50 PG/VG combined it would work out good but for the mostly PG flavoring, the drops would not be the same. Me personally, I would not use drops.
I use to use a graduated cylinder but found the syringe better because pouring VG out of the cylinder was a PIA. The VG sticks to the walls and is extremely slow. That's my opinion and everyone has there own method.

Offline shanen35

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2013, 10:41:05 AM »
+1 for the syringe  :thumbsup:

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2013, 04:44:49 PM »
I sort of have a cheat method now.  What it do is mix up a half liter of the base fluid using a graduated cylinder (60/40 PG/VG thinned with PGA).  When I want a new batch, I pour the base fluid to a marking on a 30ml needle bottle then add the nic base and flavor using dripper bottles.  Really fast to mix that way.   It's not exact since the flavoring and nic base throw off the PG/VG ratio of the base fluid a bit, but really, aside from the nic level, this stuff does not need to be very exact.  I use a 100mg nic base with a 10mg juice level and super concentrate flavors so it doesn't change the ratio by much and I actually prefer a mix closer to 70/30 so it works out just right.

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2013, 05:36:50 PM »
Hello, I have no idea if this is the correct way to post here. Just joined and cannot find the post button on top or bottom of screen as the help file indicates should be there so I will give this a shot. My question is about the calculator. I am going to be using 100mg 100%pg. When I start my recipe I am not sure what to put on the top for the first three questions. Can someone please help me? Feel free to email me or post here but I probably might not be able to get back here. lol Have a blessed day.

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2013, 05:53:39 PM »
Hello, I have no idea if this is the correct way to post here. Just joined and cannot find the post button on top or bottom of screen as the help file indicates should be there so I will give this a shot. My question is about the calculator. I am going to be using 100mg 100%pg. When I start my recipe I am not sure what to put on the top for the first three questions. Can someone please help me? Feel free to email me or post here but I probably might not be able to get back here. lol Have a blessed day.

Hi and welcome to the forum. The How To topic has that info or look at this pdf that a member has created: http://ejuice.breaktru.com/ejmutut.pdf

Offline midnightron

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2013, 06:11:25 PM »
 :thankyou: Hello and thank you very much. So since I will be using 100pg nic In the three boxes I would put 100pg 0vg and 100mg nic. Correct??

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2013, 06:52:24 PM »
:thankyou: Hello and thank you very much. So since I will be using 100pg nic In the three boxes I would put 100pg 0vg and 100mg nic. Correct??

Exactly  :thumbsup:

Offline Erck89

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2013, 08:18:50 PM »
:thankyou: Hello and thank you very much. So since I will be using 100pg nic In the three boxes I would put 100pg 0vg and 100mg nic. Correct??


   Hello midnight:  If you look at the calculator, the first line says "Nicotine Strength e-Juice    PG____% VG____%  _____mg"   the PG (propylene glycol = PG) block (red) is the base liquid the nicotine is added to in the bottle.  In your case it is 100% PG.  So 100 goes in that box.  The next box, VG (Yellow here) is used if you are using a nic in a VG (vegetable glycerin = VG) only base or if you have another mixture using both PG and VG.  The last box(I have marked as green) is the strength of the nicotine in the base.  This will be a separate label line or sticker on the bottle and will be 52mg, 73mg, 100m, or 150mg (low and extreme upper values deleted).  This the most important number you enter.  If you enter a nuber that is lower than what is actually in the juice, you can make yourself VERY Ill or dead.

    The next line down says "Target Nicotine Strength         _____mg".   This the strenth of the nicotine in the final product and wat you will be vaping.  An analog cigarette is 36mg of nicotine.  Most people who vape seem to like the nic between 18 and 24mg when they start.  You will also see this written as 36% and 18 to 24%.  They are the same thing.  Enter the number that corresponds to what you want for a nicotine hit.

    Next line "Amount to Make"     ______ml  is the size of the batch you want to make.  Everyone, including me, will tell you to start with a small bottlle(i.e., 3ml, 5ml, and at most 6ml) in case you screw up, and you will at some point, we all have, you don't waste a lot of materials.

   Water/vodka/PGA  is the amount, if any, of one or more of those liquids you use to "thin" your juice.  VG and AVG (Aqueous Vegetable Glycerin) is very thick and can reduce the efficiency of the coil and wick assembly in your PV (Personal Vaper).  For now disregard this line.  Yes, people do cut with vodka and Everclear (190 proof alcohol) .

    The next 7 lines are for entering the flavors  and the amounts, of each, to be used in your recipe.  Most of the flavor concentrates are a 100% PG base mixture.  Only if you order a VG base concentrate will that change and you will have to enter anything in the PG % VG % spaces.  What you will enter is the percentage of each concentrate you wish to use.  How much to use is pretty much up to you.  My advice is to follow a published recipe until you get use to the mixing thing.  I am a heavy mixer.  Meaning I use a larger percentage of flavor concentrate than some.  I like a heavy aroma and taste.  If I am doing a simple 2 part mix, say Double Mint: I use 12% of each Flavor Concentrate (Spearmint and Menthol), where some people wouldn't think of a 24% flavor profile.  hey may stay down around 10% total.  It is all in what you like and you will determine that with experience.

    The final two line to consider are the Target PG and VG boxes.  The calculator considers aii of PG and VG in all of the components of the mix. And here you will tell the calculator how much of a throat hit you want.  PG does two things, supposedly.  One, the more PG the bigger the throat burn.  Second, it acts like salt in your food, it wakes up your taste buds.  At any rate you have to some PG and the calculator will prompt you to insure get some PG.  Most people will start with an 80/20 PG/VG mix and correct from there as they vape their own recipes.

  I hope you find this helpful.  If you have any questions, don't fail to ask.

Offline Entheos14

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2014, 03:12:48 AM »
First I want to say: I'm sorry if I've interrupted a discussion with a question of my own. I  can't find the "new message" tab either on top of the forum or the bottom so that is my first question????? But, I'm having trouble with the calculator myself - always needing to add more PG after the "warning" box appears once I click "calculate" I've described as I know best below. Again, I'm sorry if I'm posting in the middle of a thread????

I am attempting for the first time to mix my own ejuice using the e-juice me up calculator. I have 36 ml.  PG nic which I cut in half by mixing it with the exact same amount of VG. So, now I have a nic base which is 50/50 PG - VG. I put that data in the top line of the calc. and in doing so, rather than typing in the original strength of 36 - I cut it in half since I cut the nic base in half till I ended up with a nic base of 18, which I put in the last box on the top line. I then established I wanted to end up with a nic level of 12 ml. Then I added my flavors: Blueberry -16%, and sweetener - 4%. (both are 100% PG). Then I type in the "target box" = 45% PG, 55% VG. I then hit calculate and like so many other recipees I've tried, I get the message warning that I don't have enough PG??? I have a equal mix of PG/VG in my Nic base, and then all the other additives are PG, and then I choose to end up with the mix being 55% VG and YET - I get the warning there's not enough PG??? I don't understand? To correct it I need to reduce the VG level down till it is 46% instead of the 55% which I want? It just doesn't add up to me??? I'm adding more PG than VG in the batch and yet the program demands I add more PG? The program does instruct I add more VG = 22 drops I guess to counter the 20 ml of PG Flavors in order to get to the 55 VG level, but shouldn't it just require I add less VG to balance the mix? I've played with the settings some and the only way I can get a 55% VG is to make my NIC level = 10 ml.. What can I do perhaps to the NIC BASE to make my recipees come out right? Should I add more PG or VG to it? Help me to make sense of this please!

Offline Erck89

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2014, 11:33:22 AM »
I am having trouble with my understanding some of the calc.
If I have a 50/50 VG/PG base, how do I do the drops for the PG less than the VG drops?
Like the calc calls for.

   Sky:  All of your concentrates and nicotine are mixed in PG.  The calculator knows the amount of PG used in all of those and has you add (At the PG line of the calculator) only the amount of PG needed to bring your base to the desired ratio.  If all those numbers combined don't reach your desired ratio, it will tell you to add PG, which you do by increasing the PG ratio number or decreasing the VG Ratio number.  This is set up for normal operation so you don't have to do anything except adjust the VG and PG ratio numbers.  If you have special ordered flavor and/or nicotine in VG or a combination, you would check the VG or VG and PG blocks in the center of each flavor line.  Hope tha helps.    Eric

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2014, 05:25:10 PM »
Thanks Eric.

@Entheos14
Did that help?

Update:
The main issue is the Nic 18mg to 12mg. There is not enough leeway to adjust the final PG/VG Target Ratio to what you want. Plus adding flavoring of PG will effect the target ratio.
If there was a bigger gap in your starting Nic Strength and your Target Nic Strength it would be possible to get your 55% VG target.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2014, 06:17:12 PM by Breaktru »

Offline Entheos14

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2014, 06:12:15 PM »
In my instance the program directs me to add 1.27 ml of VG for the recipee, but then the alert demands I add more PG? Why does it not just direct me to subtract some VG - thus making the suggested mix as I want? . . or does it not work that way?  As I've read, changing the percentages of PG/VG does solve the problem, but I don't want a mix with less than 50% VG?

What REALLY seems strange to me is this: My nic mix is 50/50 PG/VG, and all my flavorings are PG as well. I attempt to make my batch at 50% each PG/VG. It is then I get a warning that I need MORE PG???? Why when I've added more PG in the mix than VG except for the program indicating a need to add more VG on the finished recipe? When I want a "neutral" PG/VG - why does the program have me add MORE VG in volume than I've added PG in flavor?????? - seems that is why I always come up with a negative PG? - make sense to you????

 Sometimes the "alert" shows a - (negative) PG of 1 drop, so I'm ok with that - I just ignore it since I'm making a 8 - 10 ml batch.

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2014, 06:31:56 PM »
You were typing at the same time I made an update to my post #34

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2014, 07:20:07 PM »
I think I understand it correctly now but . . to be sure:

If I had a higher beginning Nic solution - then my problems would be resolved? Is  that right? I started with a PG based bot of Nic 36 ml. Then I added equal % of VG thinking that would make mixing easier, but I still have the original (some left without VG mixed in), and when I input that data in the top line (Nic strength) with the corresponding strength adjusted back to 36 instead of 18 - I still find the same problem? It doesn't make any difference which solution I place in the top line or "Nic Strength" ????

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2014, 07:31:35 PM »
A thought:

 If I add now an "equal" amount of PG to the nic base which I diluted with an equal portion of VG which resulted in a 50/50 PG/VG solution, then I'd end up with a Nic base of 66.6% PG/ 33.3 VG - right?  I originally mixed 60 ml's each of the PG based Nic with 60 ml of VG. If I now add 60 more ml of PG - then I'd have the 66/33 mix as stated. Now - would that help with my recipee's?

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2014, 07:47:50 PM »
I think I understand it correctly now but . . to be sure:

If I had a higher beginning Nic solution - then my problems would be resolved? Is  that right? I started with a PG based bot of Nic 36 ml. Then I added equal % of VG thinking that would make mixing easier, but I still have the original (some left without VG mixed in), and when I input that data in the top line (Nic strength) with the corresponding strength adjusted back to 36 instead of 18 - I still find the same problem? It doesn't make any difference which solution I place in the top line or "Nic Strength" ????

Adding the PG flavoring of 20% will be a problem. The highest percentage would be 11.62% combined PG flavoring. The 36mg nic to 18mg is still not enough leeway to turn 100% PG to 55% VG.
You have to understand that this NOT a problem with the calculator but rather a mathematical fact. If you find a calculator that can do what your asking then you found a calculator that is NOT correct.

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2014, 07:58:25 PM »
A thought:

 If I add now an "equal" amount of PG to the nic base which I diluted with an equal portion of VG which resulted in a 50/50 PG/VG solution, then I'd end up with a Nic base of 66.6% PG/ 33.3 VG - right?  I originally mixed 60 ml's each of the PG based Nic with 60 ml of VG. If I now add 60 more ml of PG - then I'd have the 66/33 mix as stated. Now - would that help with my recipee's?

Yes 66.6% PG / 33.3% VG at 12mg. But you won't get a target of 55%VG and adding 20% PG flavoring.

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2014, 10:57:22 PM »
I'm sorry to belabor this subject with you yet again, but hopefully this will be the last.

You helped me think of this possibility: I have the original 36 ml Nic, only half the bottle which is now 60 ml. in volumn. The mixed bottle of PG nic/VG is 120 ml. in volumn. So, if I add my half bottle of Nic PG  to the Nic mix, would I not then end up with a bot of 180 mi. with the Nic base of 30%? - a stronger base NIC with more PG also?

1. PG/VG NIC 18 ml. potency - 120 ml. volumn (60 ml. 36 ml. nic base + 60 ml. VG)
2. PG NIC - 36 ml. potency -   60 ml. volumn = 1/3 the volumn of mixed nic or 12% if added?

The PG Nic with 36ml strength (line 2) represents 1/3 the total of (line 1 + line 2) IF combined.
So, it would represent 1/3 the combined total. Since it's diluted by 66%, would it not therefore represent 12% Nic then? And if combined to the mix which has a Nic base now of 18%, would I not then add 12% to that, and then have a Nic base of 30%?
If my calculations are true, then I'd have a Nic base of 66% PG/ 33%VG with a Nic. potency of 30 ml.. Correct?  IF this is right, then I'd have a higher PG base nic liquid to begin and then possibly no longer have a problem with 50/50 or even maybe 40 PG/60 VG mixes? 

  I hope you're not frustrated with me and I truly thank you for trying to help me understand. I'm just trying to make it easier using the calculator plus attempting to at least get my batches = 50% PG/VG

Thank You, Bill

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2014, 01:41:25 AM »
Not Yet   raged:   LOL
Maybe I am not on the same page.
Is the base and the nic 2 different things or does all the base have nic in them.
I am thinking you put X amount of PG and X amount of VG and X amount of Nic.
Not sure how to Explain....at the bottom under Ingredient on the PDF it has
PG 70% - 0.83ml - 17drops - 16.6% of Total   and
VG 30% - 1.5ml - 30drops - 30% of Total
2 diff. amounts but the base I have is 50/50 PG/VG mixed together then I have 48mg nic
can not reduce the PG with it aready mixed at 50/50    :wallbash:

   Sky:  I was finishing a long explanation when I lost the whole thing when my security system decided it was time for a scan.  So, I am going to cut to the chase.  I now understand your problem.  And mate, you can't get there from here.  Well, you can, but not easily and you are going to continue to have problems.  The problem is - You do not have a bottle of VG, a bottle of PG, and a bottle of nicotine in a 50/50 PG/VG base.  You need to get a bottle of each PG and VG.  When you complete the nicotine line put your nic content in (48) and then put 50 in the PG box and 50 in the VG box  IN the body of the form you will see 2 lines: Target PG and Target VG.  This is where you define how you want your vapor to suit you.  PG controls the throat hit and VG controls the vapor quantity.  More pg equals more throat hit or burn (or in my case cough).  Normally we start DIYers with 70PG/30VG.  Now, ask Craig to figure out what you need to do to that 50/50 base nicotine to make it more useful.  He is top notch in that department.  8oz. of PG Is about $9 and 8 oz of Vg is about $8.  Hope this helps.

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2014, 10:38:14 AM »
Yes I put 75 nic - 84 PG/VG - 40 flav
I am going to use ml but I don't have a way to masure that way yet....
So I thought I would do a small mix with drops

   Sky:   Good Morning.    Last night after loosing a dissertation that would make a professor happy, I cut to the chase and answered your PG/VG problem only.  This morning I would like to address the flavor profile you mentioned.  You said you had a 20% flavor profile and you lowered it to 10% in hopes of changing the PG/VG numbers.  It is true, the calculator considers the base used in each concentrate (flavor), but you are wasting product, time, and effort, but most of all - taste.  If you have a mix that has multiple flavors and ends up with a 34% flavor profile and you cut it to 10%, you might as well vape straight pg.  Use the flavor profile that works for your taste.  You are gong to hear people say you should never exceed a 20% profile.  Poppycock!  I made a flavor for someone, that ran 37% of the single flavor, before he said it was right.  Conversely, I make a flavor for myself that the profile is a total of 14% and it is awesome.  So, don't chase PG/VG problems with flavor profile changes and forget what people say about never use more than a 20% profile. 

    Eric

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2014, 10:56:07 AM »
First I want to say: I'm sorry if I've interrupted a discussion with a question of my own. I  can't find the "new message" tab either on top of the forum or the bottom so that is my first question????? But, I'm having trouble with the calculator myself - always needing to add more PG after the "warning" box appears once I click "calculate" I've described as I know best below. Again, I'm sorry if I'm posting in the middle of a thread????

I am attempting for the first time to mix my own ejuice using the e-juice me up calculator. I have 36 ml.  PG nic which I cut in half by mixing it with the exact same amount of VG. So, now I have a nic base which is 50/50 PG - VG. I put that data in the top line of the calc. and in doing so, rather than typing in the original strength of 36 - I cut it in half since I cut the nic base in half till I ended up with a nic base of 18, which I put in the last box on the top line. I then established I wanted to end up with a nic level of 12 ml. Then I added my flavors: Blueberry -16%, and sweetener - 4%. (both are 100% PG). Then I type in the "target box" = 45% PG, 55% VG. I then hit calculate and like so many other recipees I've tried, I get the message warning that I don't have enough PG??? I have a equal mix of PG/VG in my Nic base, and then all the other additives are PG, and then I choose to end up with the mix being 55% VG and YET - I get the warning there's not enough PG??? I don't understand? To correct it I need to reduce the VG level down till it is 46% instead of the 55% which I want? It just doesn't add up to me??? I'm adding more PG than VG in the batch and yet the program demands I add more PG? The program does instruct I add more VG = 22 drops I guess to counter the 20 ml of PG Flavors in order to get to the 55 VG level, but shouldn't it just require I add less VG to balance the mix? I've played with the settings some and the only way I can get a 55% VG is to make my NIC level = 10 ml.. What can I do perhaps to the NIC BASE to make my recipees come out right? Should I add more PG or VG to it? Help me to make sense of this please!

  eos14:  You blew it.  You tried to save some steps in the process and now you basically ruined a bottle of nic.  At this point, all you can do is change the "Target PG" and "Target VG" numbers to auto-adjust your recipe. Remember to enter the PG and VG percentages at the tip of the form in the Nicotine description line.

SKY:  YOU CAN DO THIS ALSO.  THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS I FORGOT WHEN I REWROYE THE LOST REPLY.   ERIC

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2014, 01:27:16 AM »
Guess I'm a Dumb Dumb.. ? http://breaktru.com/smf/Smileys/aaron/scared.gif
Nic Base is 100%vg  50mg
Flavs are (ALC) no VG/PG.. planing on letting it breathe to remove the Alcohol.
I assume I'll need to add a small amount of distilled water to thin it ? 1% water..

my end result will be 100% VG  there is no PG nor do i want it in my recipe..

I think the VG should be 99% + my 1% water ?
It showing -Neg PG 

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2014, 05:46:02 AM »
(sorry if this has been asked or explained before)

Just curious why one cannot open recipe files as one would any other file type (that I'm aware of) by double clickin'; i.e., how come you can only do so from within the software itself?  Not sure 'bout anyone else, but since I started DIY 4 months ago, I most always have a bunch of recipes open at a time and go back and forth between them, so it is a li'l cumbersome to open them this way.

I know it takes a minimal amount of time, but unfortunately, one of my pet peeves is wasting time on anything, so 's just been buggin' me and thought I'd finally do some research and see if I could figure out a solution/workaround. 

Any thoughts/input appreciated!  :)

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2014, 08:35:07 AM »
(sorry if this has been asked or explained before)

Just curious why one cannot open recipe files as one would any other file type (that I'm aware of) by double clickin'; i.e., how come you can only do so from within the software itself?  Not sure 'bout anyone else, but since I started DIY 4 months ago, I most always have a bunch of recipes open at a time and go back and forth between them, so it is a li'l cumbersome to open them this way.

I know it takes a minimal amount of time, but unfortunately, one of my pet peeves is wasting time on anything, so 's just been buggin' me and thought I'd finally do some research and see if I could figure out a solution/workaround. 

Any thoughts/input appreciated!  :)

The ".rec" files contain the saved data for the software and is written to propagate the eJuice Me Up form text boxes. If a user intentionally or unintentionally edits the ".rec" file when open it may cause the software to crash.

An alternative would be to print out recipes using "Print Card".

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2014, 05:12:56 PM »
 :wallbash:  Sabrina:

     I do not understand your problem.  I open, at times 6 or 7 recipes at a time and jump back and forth between them.  I am going to walk you thru exactly what I do.  I love doing this, because I drive Dave crazy.  He writes back and says, Eric, you can't do it that way.  You have to go by way of Toledo.  He's a really good guy and I don't know , with all the people we have on this forum, how he keeps it going and the question answered.

   OK, young lady, I'm 71 years old and may use old words.  If you don't know what a thing of a bob is, ask Dave.  No, I'm teasing.  Just ask on the board and at least a half dozen people, including me, will answer.  Hell, anything I don't know, I'll ask my grand kids.

   For starters, I download the Breaktru calculator, often, and rightly so, referred to as the best calculator on the internet and fill out the header data (the nic info and the PG/VG numbers in the middle of the form).  With that done I click on the "FILE" button in the upper left corner of the form.  This will cause a "drop down" menu to appear.  (Normally I would insert a picture here, but it's easier to housebreak a chicken then put some graphic in one of these replies)  The top index item says "open" and the second one says "save".  Left click "save".  Click on "Documents" and then "My Documents".  That is how hard it was in my case.  You may have to click on "Libraries" first, then documents and my documents.  On the file name line or somewhere around it, it will have you make a file type selection.  Open that menu and select ".rec".  That window will close and you will end up back at the calculator form.  Click on the FILE button again and click on the "Save" button.  Like magic. the MY Documents menu will appear and near the bottom left, a blue box about a1/5" long and an1/8th inch wide will appear.  In the area, type FILE NAME, make sure the extension is .rec, and "Password Protect" is not checked and hit CR or the "Save" button. congratulations, you have earned the right to go to the ladies room.
       
Here we go with using the form (calculator)  If you look at the calculator, the first line says "Nicotine Strength e-Juice    PG____%  VG____%    _____mg"   the PG (propylene glycol = PG) block (red) is the base liquid the nicotine is added to in the bottle.  In your case it is 100% PG.  So 100 goes in that box.  The next box, VG (Yellow here) is used if you are using a nic in a VG (vegetable glycerin = VG) only base or if you have another mixture using both PG and VG.  The last box(I have marked as green) is the strength of the nicotine in the base.  This will be a separate label line or sticker on the bottle and will be 52mg, 73mg, 100m, or 150mg (low and extreme upper values deleted).  This the most important number you enter.  If you enter a nuber that is lower than what is actually in the juice, you can make yourself VERY Ill or dead.

    The next line down says "Target Nicotine Strength         _____mg".   This the strenth of the nicotine in the final product and wat you will be vaping.  An analog cigarette is 36mg of nicotine.  Most people who vape seem to like the nic between 18 and 24mg when they start.  You will also see this written as 36% and 18 to 24%.  They are the same thing.  Enter the number that corresponds to what you want for a nicotine hit.

    Next line "Amount to Make"     ______ml  is the size of the batch you want to make.  Everyone, including me, will tell you to start with a small bottlle(i.e., 3ml, 5ml, and at most 6ml) in case you screw up, and you will at some point, we all have, you don't waste a lot of materials.

   Water/vodka/PGA  is the amount, if any, of one or more of those liquids you use to "thin" your juice.  VG and AVG (Aqueous Vegetable Glycerin) is very thick and can reduce the efficiency of the coil and wick assembly in your PV (Personal Vaper).  For now disregard this line.  Yes, people do cut with vodka and Everclear (190 proof alcohol) .

    The next 7 lines are for entering the flavors  and the amounts, of each, to be used in your recipe.  Most of the flavor concentrates are a 100% PG base mixture.  Only if you order a VG base concentrate will that change and you will have to enter anything in the PG % VG % spaces.  What you will enter is the percentage of each concentrate you wish to use.  How much to use is pretty much up to you.  My advice is to follow a published recipe until you get use to the mixing thing.  I am a heavy mixer.  Meaning I use a larger percentage of flavor concentrate than some.  I like a heavy aroma and taste.  If I am doing a simple 2 part mix, say Double Mint: I use 12% of each Flavor Concentrate (Spearmint and Menthol), where some people wouldn't think of a 24% flavor profile.  hey may stay down around 10% total.  It is all in what you like and you will determine that with experience.

    The final two line to consider are the Target PG and VG boxes.  The calculator considers aii of PG and VG in all of the components of the mix. And here you will tell the calculator how much of a throat hit you want.  PG does two things, supposedly.  One, the more PG the bigger the throat burn.  Second, it acts like salt in your food, it wakes up your taste buds.  At any rate you have to some PG and the calculator will prompt you to insure get some PG.  Most people will start with an 80/20 PG/VG mix and correct from there as they vape their own recipes.

  I hope you find this helpful.  If you have any questions, don't fail to ask
   
    When you have finished with a recipe, ,click, on FILE and on the down menu, click on SAVE.  On the Save line, ensure the extension is ,rec and the password protect box is NOT checked before typing "File Name" on the title name line and click on SAVE or the CR.

   When you are ready to do another recipe, click on the e juice me up shortcut button.  A copy of the form will come up,  Click on FILE and then click on OPEN.  Use the calculator and Click on FILE and SAVE when the dropdown Menu shows.  This will take you to the My Documents menu where you will type a file name for the new recipe and hit Save or CR.

    If you want to open multiple recipe, send $1,000,000,000,000,00 to my wife and I will tell you the secret.  No, it's so easy, you will figure it out and I'll get nothing.

    Click on the shortcut, click on FILE, click on OPEN, scroll through the first recipe you want to open and double cjick on it.  When that recipe comes up, move it all the way over to the edge opposite the shortcut icon, click on the shortcut icon, selection the next desired recipe,  and  double click on the recipe title.  Minimize the recipe you want to use later and move the other one over where it will be comfortable.

    NOW THE MOST IMPORTANT INSTRUCTION OF ALL.  cLICK ON FILE AND RENAME THAT FILE BEFORE YOU CLOSE IT OF USE IT AGAIN.

               Eric
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 05:38:33 PM by Erck89 »

Offline Erck89

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Re: Having Trouble Understanding Calculator
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2014, 10:27:42 AM »
Guess I'm a Dumb Dumb.. ? http://breaktru.com/smf/Smileys/aaron/scared.gif
Nic Base is 100%vg  50mg
Flavs are (ALC) no VG/PG.. planing on letting it breathe to remove the Alcohol.
I assume I'll need to add a small amount of distilled water to thin it ? 1% water..

my end result will be 100% VG  there is no PG nor do i want it in my recipe..

I think the VG should be 99% + my 1% water ?
It showing -Neg PG

    OK, get a copy of the calculator to look at as I am going to refer to the lines without explanation of their location on the form.

    First and foremost, you have to buy 100% VG base Nicotine and any concentrate that IS NOT alcohol based, and that is a bunch.  these have to be special ordered or special instructions INCLUDED ON THE ORDER.  Now, you have a pure VG ingredient stock.

    To the calculator form:  1) Nicotine Strengh e juice - in the PG box put 0% the VG box will go to 100%
\                                        2) On each Flav line used, put a 0%in the PG box.  The VG amount will change to 100% automatically.
                                         3)In the middle of the form are two lines, "Target PG  %" and "Target VG   %".  Change the PG box to 0%,and the VG line               will go to 100% automatically.
                                          4) Hit the Calculate button.
You will have an all VG mix

    This will work.  I tested it. 

   With all that VG, you may want to add 2 to 3ml of water and as far as steeping to remove the alcohol goes.  That is not why you steep.  When the alcohol hits the hot coil it will immediately dissipate, alcohol boils off at 140 degrees F.  Leaving a small bottle open to disapate the alcohol totally, would take months.  The reason you steep is to allow allthe molecules (i.e., ingredients) to blend, giving you the true flavor of your mix.  Most will blend in 2 to 10 days.  Some, like peach, take up to as much as 6 WEEKS to  complete the process.

   Hope this is useful.  Enjoy         Eric

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