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Breaktru Forum  |  eCigarette Forum  |  Modding  |  Topic: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
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Author Topic: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration  (Read 21841 times)

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Offline c1truz

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Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« on: November 20, 2013, 10:49:59 AM »
To start I just wanted to say thanks to everyone that contributes to this site.  I stumbled upon it one day while searching for some components to try to make a mod.  I've been contemplating doing this for about a year now.  I was going to start with a simple VV mod but decided to go with a MCU project instead.   I started cheap but for prototyping who cares? Right?   So what have I done so far?  Pretty much nothing.  I've read this forum.  Picked up a few parts.  Read a book(ADHD doesn't make this easy) and that's about it!.

What I PLAN on doing is:

Dual 18xxx setup. 

V V 3.X - 6ish

PWM controlled output voltage.  I have some calculations on paper that calculate for the voltage change as the battery voltage drops but we all know things work/look better on paper. 

Typical V W A R  and Battery Charge Sensing/Calculations etc etc. 

Circuit protection.

I'm sure I forgot some things.

I know its not going to be easy but i needed a hobby and think I have found it.

What I've gotten so far:

Plenty of batteries laying around.
Arduino Micro for starters.  Im sure this will change.
Some switches, wire, resistors etc etc etc.

Waiting on a few solderless breadboards
16x2 LCD but will change because of its obvious size
and a box full of wachamacallits from digikey. 

So hopefully I can get this started within the next week or so. 
I will keep this thread updated with the good, bad and the explosions raged:!  Hopefully I will be able to somewhat contribute even if its with my mistakes. 






Offline Mandro

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2013, 12:10:23 PM »
Good luck. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

Online Breaktru

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2013, 12:37:22 PM »
Thanks c1truz for sharing your plans to build an MCU mod  :thumbsup:
It's a lot of fun learning and building but sometimes frustrating.
I personally don't think PWM is the way to go. I prefer a constant output voltage over a pulsed output (my opinion)

Offline c1truz

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2013, 01:28:35 PM »
The pwm may change. Heck  Ill prob do both eventually.    I was just trying to keep cost at a min for this first project.   I love programming and troubleshooting things So im ready for the challenge. 

BT what are the reasons you prefer constant vs pwn?   Just curious since you have obvious more experience with mod building than I do.   I understand the differences in theory but that doesnt always translate 1:1.

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2013, 04:11:26 PM »
In terms of ground-up circuit design there are pros and cons with PWM versus the flat DC output provided by a DC-DC converter. 

It's a lot cheaper and easier to implement a PWM regulated output compared to a DC-DC converter.  PWM regulators have a much lower part count.

PWM has higher efficiency than a converter does.  Even the most efficient converter won't do better than about 85% under maximal loads.  PWM easily gets numbers upwards of 95% for maximal loads.

DC-DC converters are complicated beasts.  If you want the highest efficiency, you want to use a voltage mode converter which can be a RPITA to tune. 

PWM regulators have the issue of much higher switch currents.  If you want to design a PWM regulator to handle very low resistances, then the switch has to handle input voltage over atomizer resistance.  Currents can get very high in that case which results in circuit noise that can be quite troublesome.  It also requires a bigger switch.  DC-DC converters only have to be designed for the maximal voltage and current applied to the atomizer plus a margin of tolerance.  Circuit noise is less of an issue.

Converters are not as limited in voltage input.  You can design a converter to accept a wide range of input voltages.  Input voltage must always be higher than output voltage for a PWM regulator and even then, there are lower input voltage limits.

In terms of vaping performance, I prefer a flat DC output myself, but to be honest I think anyone would be hard pressed to tell in a blind test.


« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 04:20:50 PM by CraigHB »

Offline c1truz

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2013, 11:01:18 PM »
Thanks for the great info Craig!   Gonna def keep my brain working, researching everything i can. 

This obviously is just a mock up but I had to throw something together real quick with the lcd I got in the mail today  :D

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2013, 01:55:08 PM »
Looks like a good start.

One thing to keep mind is that with the "off the shelf" converter modules, you only need a digital pot to interface with an MCU  There's none of the headaches I mentioned before.  That last post was in terms of designing things ground-up from scratch.  For a PWM system, you only need a good power MOSFET in lieu of a converter module.  I would recommend a MOSFET driver of some kind, though it would be possible to drive the MOSFET off one of the MCU's I/IO pins since PWM frequencies are usually under 100 Hz.  In any case, you'll want to use heavy isolation for the MCU side of things.  Powering an atomizer is a noisy affair any way you do it. 

Offline c1truz

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2013, 10:07:31 AM »
Small update.  I set up a voltage divider to get the source voltage and current sensor this weekend.  Everything works as expected except I have to fine tune the calibration on both.  My main problem is the bidirectional current sensor.  It puts out about ~2.5v with 0 current or a reading 500ish from the analog pin but it fluctuates with no current 475-511.  Just have to figure out the best way to get it zeroed in.  Didn't really have time to mess around with it but it shouldn't be hard to get.     I'll do some research and write some code while im at work today and maybe figure it out. 

Everything is coming along nicely even though I'm a little slow.  But with me just starting MCU programming I feel that i've already come a long way. 

Online Breaktru

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2013, 11:33:02 AM »
Sensor: Zero Current Output Voltage is Vcc x 0.5 volts so if you are using a 5v VCC then you should see 2.5v with 0 current.

If you are using a Hall Effect current sensor it is subject to interference from magnetism such as an inductor. I had that using a DC-DC converter.
Placement of the sensor effects your readings. Fine tuning the code is necessary after placing your components in a mod due to the location of the sensor in the mod. If it is in a breadboard you will notice that moving the sensor around will cause your readings to fluctuate.
On the breadboard, adjust your code so to be in a ball park area with your readings. Once you install your components in a mod fine tune your code accordingly. Once this is done further code tuning in unnecessary.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 11:38:15 AM by Breaktru »

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2013, 12:51:13 PM »
I use a differential amp with a current sense resistor.  Hall effect sensors are nice because they have very low insertion resistance, but they have their disadvantages as Breaktru pointed out.  Differential amps have to be calibrated in code for offset and gain since there's tolerances in the components that have to be compensated for.  They work really well though.

Breadboards can be a real problem for anything that involves a frequency of any kind due to the large amounts of parasitic impedance they introduce.  As a stop gap you can use proto boards that plug into a breadboard to limit stray impedance.  I do that sometimes.  The best thing to do is just prototype your whole design on a proper circuit board.  You can get them from Osh Park super cheap (http://oshpark.com), that's who I use.  The prices are really good and the quality is really good. 

Offline c1truz

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2013, 01:36:40 PM »
Thanks to both of you again.  I was reading about the fluctuation before I saw your replies.  It is an ACS714 or something like that.   Don't remember the letters off the top of my head.   I did have it working for a while last night then all of a sudden it was reading .1x amps when its supposed to be 0.  But now that I think about it I was moving things around quite a bit so that could  partially be one of my problems.  I'm going to run through my code and get it close.  Then prob TRY to get a  few boards made.  Maybe my lack of looking but I didn't realize you could get them so cheap. 



On a side note I also have some samples coming from TI soon.  08100w , 4050c etc etc to play around with those also. 
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 01:41:51 PM by c1truz »

Offline c1truz

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2013, 08:07:51 PM »
Just wanted to post a small update.  I havent really had much time to do anything as far as a physical device.  I did decide against the pwm for now.  Not because I couldnt but because I got some ti samples and im waiting on some components to get them up and running.  I also designed a charging board for li ion / poly.  Its in the process of being made right now.  Have a 3.3v mcu thats supposed to be delivered tom and an oled otw too.

I have a boost circuit designed and will work on the board this weekend. Its hard to find a few hours of non stop time with a 9 month old :) 

Any tips on the board design for a boost circuit.  Heat issues, noise, etc etc.  I may be doing it wrong but im doing each section of the board seperate at first.  Looking to fit my first in a 4x2 box and maybe shrink from there.
 
Well anyway....happy modding everyone. 

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2013, 10:45:37 PM »
You don't have to worry too much about input ripple for boost, one of the nice things about it.  For boost, you get all the noise on output unlike buck which puts all the noise on input.  So, it's less of an issue powering the MCU.  Just the normal decoupling caps should be sufficient.  One thing extra you might want to do is isolate the ground plane for the MCU from the booster.  Just put a separation in the ground plane so the supply and return currents for the booster steer around the MCU and it's peripherals.  The inductor ripple is pretty big for boost so you don't want those high currents getting near sensitive parts of the circuit.  Below is a drawing of what I mean.

As far as PCB design for the booster, keep decoupling caps close to controller pins.  If using external MOSFETs (which I recommend), keep your gate runs as short as possible.  Pay close attention to gate charge values for MOSFETs in data sheets.  It's tempting to use ones with the lowest RDSon, but if the gate charge is too high they might actually be more wasteful than ones with higher on resistance and lower gate charge.  Usually you want to keep gate charge under 20nC @ 4.5V VGS with the lowest on resistance you can find.  Definitely don't go over 30nC.

600kHz seems to be the sweet spot for switching frequency.  Any higher and switching losses go up greatly.  Lower and you get too much inductor ripple.  600kHz works great with an inductor 470nH to 1uH.  Lower inductance for better efficiency, higher inductance for less ripple and less sensitivy to load (CCM to DCM transitions).
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 11:25:18 PM by CraigHB »

Offline c1truz

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2013, 09:54:40 PM »
Thanks for all the advice.  Taking it all in and still working on board design.  I have 90 percent of my parts in and no board more than 30%.  Ugh better get on it!

Offline kortt

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2013, 10:18:26 PM »
Look at all those purdy parts :D  I just got a box from Newark today...just waiting on one more delivery now.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Online Breaktru

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2013, 06:16:22 AM »
Thanks for all the advice.  Taking it all in and still working on board design.  I have 90 percent of my parts in and no board more than 30%.  Ugh better get on it!

And now the fun begins. Exciting, Ain't it

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2013, 04:35:46 PM »
My component collection for me is equivalent to my wife's jewelry collection to her.  Though, I can buy a bag of capacitors for a hell of a lot less than she spends on new earings.

Online Breaktru

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2013, 04:49:42 PM »
It's worth it. A few trinkets to keep them out of our hair so we can tinker  :thumbsup:

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2013, 04:51:25 PM »
Oh hell, she does what she wants anyway.  But, my component collection is way, way better than her jewelry collection.

Offline Visus

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2013, 11:30:08 AM »
Nice begins to a nice oncoming mod.


Don't overlook  ti's 8060 the 6 amp version of the 08100 its also an amazing sample.  Its underrated as well.   If you have not vaped a ti mod your in for a treat once you get it working..

Offline beamrider

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2013, 12:45:54 PM »
I'll agree, the 8100 is solid.  5v on my 8100, vs 5v on anything else I own, is a big difference.  No sag, smooth drag....:)

Offline Visus

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2013, 01:07:02 PM »
I'll agree, the 8100 is solid.  5v on my 8100, vs 5v on anything else I own, is a big difference.  No sag, smooth drag....:)

No sag makes a huge difference and the ramp up  is instant, when dry burning it is not a slow progress, instant!.... 
Press button cherry red 

Your post op gives me inspiration for my future lcd/nokia mod as well, these pcb's deserve a good nesting.. I hope break keeps this forum for many years lol..





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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2013, 01:42:14 PM »

.. I hope break keeps this forum for many years lol..


If more members like yourself and other few loyal members would post, this forum will be here for awhile. But it frustrates me to see many guests and members with ZERO posts just lurking. Every once in awhile I shut down the site briefly due to lack of participation.

Offline c1truz

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2013, 02:01:50 PM »
Ya I saw that the other day.  Is there a way you can sort members by posts and time registered and remove them? 

Btw Im almost finished wiring 04050c mcu booster I started last night.  Ill post when im done.  I did screw up and cut the hole too big for the screen but  #$/! Happens. 

Offline Visus

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2013, 02:05:21 PM »
If more members like yourself and other few loyal members would post, this forum will be here for awhile. But it frustrates me to see many guests and members with ZERO posts just lurking. Every once in awhile I shut down the site briefly due to lack of participation.

The battery section at ecf should have a link here. 
The hobby of building a mod is exciting and rewarding but many people have no idea mods like these exist.  Its funny if a fellow vaper asks what device I use and I say a Ti evercool or a breaktru boost 4050 mod, they will not know how awesome that is, and I want them to know that. lol  Yes more people are needed but they do not  know.  I was waiting to get better pic and video of the performance of my unit to post at other forums..    I cannot believe its more powerful than most ecigs and no rattle snake sounds pure classic dc flat line vape..  They must know of the Ti/Okr mods so when then I will be the winner of a bragging chicken dinner.

Offline c1truz

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2013, 02:07:33 PM »
Oh and I have an 8100 and 8060 sitting right here.  Just havent goten to them yet. 

Offline kortt

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2013, 05:00:06 PM »
I've sent folks over here when asking modding questions, but I never see them posting.  The Canadian forum I participate in has a modding section but not a lot goes on there....which is kinda sad.  I've learned more from this forum that all the other forums combined.  No bullsh*t politics or grandstanding over here!

Online Breaktru

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2013, 05:35:33 PM »
I've sent folks over here when asking modding questions, but I never see them posting.  The Canadian forum I participate in has a modding section but not a lot goes on there....which is kinda sad.  I've learned more from this forum that all the other forums combined.  No bullsh*t politics or grandstanding over here!

Thanks kortt, I really appreciate it. We have great posting members here. And they stay on topic when posting.
There are many members here that have not returned after getting what they needed from the forum. I've seen them posting their new mods after I personally tutored them through PMs and postings. Shame ain't it.

Offline mamu

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2013, 10:07:38 PM »
Thanks kortt, I really appreciate it. We have great posting members here. And they stay on topic when posting.
There are many members here that have not returned after getting what they needed from the forum. I've seen them posting their new mods after I personally tutored them through PMs and postings. Shame ain't it.

Just wanted to pop in and say I appreciate you and your forum, breaktru.  Please don't shut it down. 

What got me here was I was searching for any news or what people might be saying about the DNA30 and came across your thread.  So joined your forum.  Then got to looking around and oh my there are some really awesome threads and help and tutorials and sharing here. 

Bestest modding forum on the net!! 


Offline redwolfe

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2013, 09:54:57 PM »
Just wanted to pop in and say I appreciate you and your forum, breaktru.  Please don't shut it down. 

What got me here was I was searching for any news or what people might be saying about the DNA30 and came across your thread.  So joined your forum.  Then got to looking around and oh my there are some really awesome threads and help and tutorials and sharing here. 

Bestest modding forum on the net!! 



Seconded! I come by and see what's going on every so often. Sometimes I just don't have anything new to add to discussion or to post. Life got in the way with working at a vape store, and I got diagnosed with eye cancer (melanoma) in August, surgery in September and now I'm minus one eye. (Check my avatar  :laughing2: ) Takes me a little longer to put mods together now. It kind of put me in a bind for awhile since I was adjusting to everything.

Anyway, pretty excited on the DNA30 release! Hope to get a few in the first run.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 09:59:40 PM by redwolfe »

Offline Visus

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2013, 10:11:05 PM »
Yeah I feel like a vapor snob now lol

pffft  30 watts easy, 50 watts even easier
 lol I never go past 13 watts now changes week to week and atomizer dual single etc.
maybe one day i will get the full impact at 50 watts lol

No close the forum ever


another fan
 
 :rockin smiley:

Offline Mandro

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2013, 04:38:16 AM »
 Another fan here

I've gone from knowing nothing about electronics to knowing a little but with 4 box mods due to this excellent forum.
I don't use anything but my box mods at home and I'm so proud of them. All thanks to the information, support and encouragement that I get from here.

 :rockin smiley:

Online Breaktru

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Re: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2013, 07:48:28 AM »
Thanks everyone. I appreciate the support  :thankyou:

@Redwolfe:
I'm so sorry to hear that you lost your eye to cancer. I read awhile ago that you had an eye problem but I didn't realize it was cancer. I've had an eye patch on for 24hrs in the past due to an accident and it was difficult doing things. I remember driving home from the hospital and it was difficult. I know I wasn't suppose to drive but I had to get home  freaked_out:
I wish you the best and hope you are adjusting well.

Dave

Breaktru Forum  |  eCigarette Forum  |  Modding  |  Topic: Mod Project...Thanks for the inspiration
 

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