Source for quality 510 connectors?

[beamrider]

Started building another dna20 mod, only to find that out of the 8 brass 510 connectors I have (from madvapes) every single fucking one has the insulator split. I havent found anyplace to order just the insulators, and I'm pretty much done with this garbage. Does anyone know of some place that might sell a better connector? Nice delrin insulator maybe, stainless steel connector?  Someone has to make something a step above, all these high end mod makers cant be using this junk.

[Breaktru]

Yeah they suck. Next time lubricate the insulator before pushing them out. They are made like garbage.

4 for $1.49 at: Avid Vaper

[beamrider]

I did lube them all up 1st, with some PG.  Actually I use an insulin syringe , and try to get some of the PG in between the insulator and center pin.  The settings on the 20 ton press the factory probably uses could have been off, I spose....

And thanks for the heads-up on the replacements, those look quite a bit different than stock ones.  I'll order some, and if they're actually silicone, it should be possible to solder to the pin without having to remove it.  If you're quick, that is, but for the price I don't really care if I smoke one.

[Visus]

I used an old mechanical pen's spinner bit  click mechanism as my insulator its delrin and fits perfectly.  I am looking for some more, it will never fail its epoxied  in place..

I have seen circuit board wafer washers that small in some electronics

http://www.alliance-express.com/insulator-washers

If someone knows  size  dimensions --help me out here. post them I have found quite a few places that make the insulators but have no idea the size.. 
I have 2.5mmOD X 1.7mmID X 3-5mmTall 2mm lip height on top 

[Breaktru]

I used an old mechanical pen's spinner bit  click mechanism as my insulator its delrin and fits perfectly.  I am looking for some more, it will never fail its epoxied  in place..

I have seen circuit board wafer washers that small in some electronics

http://www.alliance-express.com/insulator-washers

If someone knows  size  dimensions --help me out here. post them I have found quite a few places that make the insulators but have no idea the size.. 
I have 2.5mmOD X 1.7mmID X 3-5mmTall 2mm lip height on top 

I posted the measurements in this thread --> HERE

[mamu]

I buy all my connectors directly through a China supplier as madvapes is always out of stock.  I've approached them about making ss connectors.

I no longer fix the center post with epoxy from underneath, and haven't for a long time now, as I really much prefer an adjustable center post, so I used to replace the insulator that comes with the standard connector with an avidvaper insulator - BUT was still having issues with people damaging the insulator and *sigh* overtightening the atty which causes the insulator to work its way up and over the center post which not only damages the insulator, but causes connectivity issues. 

So what I do now is use a connector spacer that madvapes sells, dremel the center hole a bit larger, then insert it onto the center post from the underside.  No more insulator problems with shorts or it working itself up and over the center post.  A bit of extra work and a bit of extra money to buy the spacers, but maaan it's nice to have no more damaged insulators or service issues with this as well as still having a flexible center post. 

And with using these spacers, I'm back to using the insulators that come with these standard connectors - I've not had any problems with them or with them being torn from the supplier I buy from.

connector spacer...


dremel the center hole just large enough to slip through the underside of the center post... I use this attachment...


slip the spacer onto the center post from the underside...


now the insulator is not only protected, but can't work itself up and over the center post when someone overtightens the atty or has a connectivity problem...

[Visus]

Thats the exact wafer washer I was posting about.    Wow  nice

[CraigHB]

I've approached them about making ss connectors.

I hired out a machine shop to make a bunch of SS connectors for me.  They're awesome, 304 stainless body, Delrin insulator, brass center post.  They mount from behind with a 3/8" panel nut.  Totally bulletproof.  The bad news is how much it cost me to have them made.  In any case, I'm stocked with connectors as long as my builds are in small numbers.  I dont' sell them, but if anyone wants the engineering drawings I can make them available.

[mamu]

Awesome, Craig - PM incoming.

[beamrider]

Is it just me, or is the 510 connection not really optimum ?  THere's got to be a better designed system that can be used for this application, but it seems like everywhere you look, it's 510.

I did a small experiment with leftover 510 connector parts.  SOldered my wire to the center post as usual, inserted it into the body of the connector, but without an insulator.  Filled it from underneath with a syringe and 14(?) gauge blunt needle, using silicone caulking, then screwed a carto onto the body, just barely finger tight.  I'll let it sit for a few days to cure, then see what it looks like.

[kortt]

Is it just me, or is the 510 connection not really optimum ?  THere's got to be a better designed system that can be used for this application, but it seems like everywhere you look, it's 510.

I did a small experiment with leftover 510 connector parts.  SOldered my wire to the center post as usual, inserted it into the body of the connector, but without an insulator.  Filled it from underneath with a syringe and 14(?) gauge blunt needle, using silicone caulking, then screwed a carto onto the body, just barely finger tight.  I'll let it sit for a few days to cure, then see what it looks like.

You could also try filling the connector with silicone without the center pin in it and then drilling or punching a hole in the center.  You probably could use something small like a needle to put the hole in then the pin would fit tight.  I might have to try it myself...good idea you have there

[CraigHB]

Awesome, Craig - PM incoming.

Here's the drawings for you in PDF format; link

Some notes about this design;

The insulator is specified as POM (Delrin)  I wanted to use Polyimide (Kapton) which has very high heat tolerance, but it was cost prohbitive.  PTFE (Teflon) is better than POM for heat tolerance, but again expensive.  If you go with the Delrin, you will need to solder the wire to the center post before pressing it in.  If you pay for the better material, you won't have to do that.  Polyimide can for sure withstand the heat of solering, but I'm not sure about PTFE.

The backing nut is a standard nickel plated brass 3/8" panel nut.  It's not specified in the drawings.  Those nuts can be found at specialty hardware shops like drillspot.com.  It's better to use brass since it's a good conductor and minimizes electrical losses.  You do get about 5 mOhms insertion loss for the 304 SS body, but that's the cost of a really tough material for the threads.  You can solder the nut or use a standard 3/8" crimp lug behind the nut.  Those can be found at any hardware store.

I designed these connectors some time ago before the use of oversize atomizers that use center post air flow.  You may want to reduce the height on the drip cup a half mm or so otherwise airflow can be obstructed on those types of atomizers.  It's not a concern for me since I don't use atomizers like that, but when I make mods for others, I always turn that lip down a half mm for airflow.

[Breaktru]

Now that is a quality connector that no amount of money can buy. Great job craig. I've seen it before on your PowerBlok mods and it is amazing

[CraigHB]

Well, necessity is the mother of invention.  I have no issue sharing these drawings since I have no plans to produce and sell them.  I take them for granted anymore, no more connectors wearing out or getting loose.  I've been using these for a couple years and not one has shown any detectable wear on the threads or suffered any other connector issue.  They are seriously bulletproof.

I'd like to change that lip on the drip cup, but it's way too expensive to redo them.  I'd either make it flat with notches or reduce the height.  I'd still rather have a polyimide insulator, but I've not really had much need to resolder a connector.  The one or two times I've done it, I've just popped the center post out with a pin punch beforehand.

In any case, I can't believe that no one has yet made a connector like this for sale at the retail level.  It seems like a simple thing really.

[mamu]

Thanks so much for sharing, Craig.  Absolutely awesome connector and with a built in catch cup - quite innovative. 

I got my first look at your mods by googling "PowerBlok mods".  Very very impressive - major wow factor there with what you've done with your mods and the know how you have to build it from the ground up.

[CraigHB]

Thanks Mamu, means a lot coming from you.  Your work was an inspiriation years ago when I started building mods for the first time.  Haven't seen that photo, must be from one of the guys I've built one for.  But yeah, that one has the lip turned flat.  The connectors on the ones I build for myself look like this.  You can actually back up a level on that link and view the contents of my web space.  There's a bunch of pictures of the smaller 1400mAh box and the bigger 6000mAh box I do right now.

[redwolfe]

The connectors Craig designed are the best I have used for making mods. It's a shame that they can't be had for about $8-10 a piece (connector, insulator, pin and panel nut) on a site like Madvapes but they can only be had through a machine shop and cost about $13 each for 200 made like I did. That is a large chunk of change to spend. These aren't for sale as they are going into a mod case I designed for production.

[Breaktru]

The connectors Craig designed are the best I have used for making mods. It's a shame that they can't be had for about $8-10 a piece (connector, insulator, pin and panel nut) on a site like Madvapes but they can only be had through a machine shop and cost about $13 each for 200 made like I did. That is a large chunk of change to spend. These aren't for sale as they are going into a mod case I designed for production.

You ain't kidding brother. Big bucks to layout for 200.
For the few hobby mods I make a year for myself it's not worth it.
They do look awesome though.

[Littlefeather]

Craig

Very nice looking work you've done.

I've been lurking here for a while and am just about finished with my first mod DNA20 project. Love the looks of your 510 connector and just wanted to verify if I would have your permission to see about having some made user your PDF.

Sincerely
Littlefeather

[Littlefeather]

Craig

Sorry! These old eyes just re-read your post giving permission to use your connector plans. 

[Visus]

Their 510 adapter is top notch this makes it that much easier if quality matches 510 adapter it will be the one other than the cad built connectors.


510 with nut modders connector..
woot

http://www.fasttech.com/products/1/10003955/1563302-510-to-510-adapter-for-e-cigarette

[CraigHB]

The problem with those is the brass body.  The threads wear out, and pretty fast if you swap atomizers around a lot.  That was my main motivation for designing an SS modders connector.  Also, the crappy rubber insulators they use break down pretty quick.  They can split and short out the center post, it does happen rather often.  It's a real pain to replace those insulators in some cases and a real annoyance.

If anyone wants to mass produce my connector and sell it you're welcome to.  I'd consider it a service to the vaping community. 

[kortt]

It would be cool to get some sort of co-op going on some decent machined connectors.  I don't have much in the way of a modding budget but I'd like to have a chance to use some decent connectors. Would be nice to see some company like madvapes, etc, jump on the bandwagon.

[Littlefeather]

Well, I'm not a company per say but I sent the PDF to a couple of companies I know and will let you all know when I hear back.
It would be very nice to find them at a cost effective price. I did ask for quotes in brass also. I do like copper & brass!

I know most of you are all about electronic power, efficiency and capability but there is also the purdy factor! I know! Everybody’s purdy factor is different. Thank god we aren’t all the same and all like the same things. That would be reel boring!

[Littlefeather]

The problem with those is the brass body.  The threads wear out, and pretty fast if you swap atomizers around a lot.  That was my main motivation for designing an SS modders connector.  Also, the crappy rubber insulators they use break down pretty quick.  They can split and short out the center post, it does happen rather often.  It's a real pain to replace those insulators in some cases and a real annoyance.

If anyone wants to mass produce my connector and sell it you're welcome to.  I'd consider it a service to the vaping community.

Craig
Are the brass ones you're talking about wearing out faster, are they the ones from FT or Madvapes or your design? I know brass is not as durable as SS but just wanted to verify which ones you were speaking too, or if it was an, In general brass connectors?

[CraigHB]

Yes, it's hard to find a competitive price to get connectors machined.  That's why I've not done it myself.  Though, when you get the numbers up, the price goes down, but you're talking like 1000 units.  The Chinese shops do stuff a lot cheaper.  I found one to do my connectors for about $12 a piece in low(ish) quantity.  They did a surprisingly good job further breaking down my attitude that Chinese shops never do good work.  Sometimes Chinese shops do really good work.

In terms of looks, I don't think 304 Stainless can be beat.  It's just a great looking metal.  Though it's not a great conductor, but the body provides a lot of mating area through the threads which makes up for it to an extent.  I said 5 mOhms before, but I forgot that includes the wires and connections.  I took the measurement using volts over amps at the board connection compared to the atomizer connection.  It's probably more like 2 or 3 mOhms which wastes 200 or 300 mW at 10 Amps compared to 10 or 15 mW for a brass connector.  Really not a big deal when you consider a 10 Amp draw would be for a load of about 30 Watts.  That's barely a percent.

I've not had any connectors made with a brass body, but it would be no problem to do it.  Brass is a lot cheaper than stainless for material cost and machine labor so that's why all the ones you find presently are made of brass.  They could be made with stainless, but they don't do it.  Though, there's still the issue of the crappy silicon/vinyl insulators they use. 

I don't know that the makers of 510 connectors have ever thought in terms of wear on the threads.  They ~can~ wear out.  If you don't remove and replace your atomizers much, it's not a problem.  If you do, the threads wear to the point that the atomizer won't stay in eventually. 

A friend of ours vapes and uses the eGos.  She likes to fill her cartomizers from the battery end and she ends up replacing the battery units because the threads wear out before the cell inside of them does.  When I used the cartomizers and only dripped into them, the threads on my connectors would wear out just from replacing cartomizers. 

I use a rebuildable now, but I still remove and replace it an amount for cleaning and service.  I don't know that I'd wear out a brass connector, but it's certainly nice to know that can't happen.  It's also nice to know I'll never have a center post failure.  I had a one or two of those before.

[Littlefeather]

Thanks for the quick reply. Yeah, I've been there and done that with the ego's and have run thru several batteries with the threads wearing out.

[mamu]

This may be an alternative solution for those on a budget and not able to afford Craig's connector...

They are top cap replacement heads for a cloned mech mod... the middle one has a brass floating center pin with a delrin insulator, aluminum body though - not stainless steel...
http://www.fasttech.com/search?replacement%20top%20cap

[Breaktru]

This may be an alternative solution for those on a budget and not able to afford Craig's connector...

They are top cap replacement heads for a cloned mech mod... the middle one has a brass floating center pin with a delrin insulator, aluminum body though - not stainless steel...
http://www.fasttech.com/search?replacement%20top%20cap

That's funny. I was going to post that same top cap yesterday but saw that it was aluminum and thought that it may be worst than the brass ones. Aluminum is a better conductor than brass but easily strips. I worried about cross-threading too.

[mamu]

Craig's connector is definitely the best available.

I was thinking the floating brass center post and delrin insulator by itself might make that top cap a good buy to solve center post, shorts and insulator issues.  It's unfortunate that it comes with an aluminum body and threads.

The top cap for the Chi You clone is advertised as stainless steel.

For me, those top caps are too big in diameter.  I need something around 12-15mm in diameter total - connector plus catch cup.

[Breaktru]

For me using the standard crappy 510 connectors will have to do. I only make mods for myself and the small store bought boxes are too narrow to accept a wider 510 base. Craig custom designed his enclosures around his super connector.

Being that I only make for myself, I'm not concerned about a drip cup. I haven't had a single leak since switching to rebuildable atomizes. But if you are building for a customer, you can't stop "User Errors" from happening so adding one may prevent a return repair.

Also I refill my tanks on the mod so I only unscrew them when I need to rebuild. Wear and tear on the connector is much less than it was prior to RBA's.

[kortt]

I think even if we had a source for getting delrin insulators to upgrade the ones on the currently available mass produced connectors would be a huge improvement.

[CraigHB]

Yes, the diameter on anything for a 18650 tube mod can be a little big for a box that uses a small battery like a flat cell or 14500.  I could use one on my bigger boxes, but the smaller ones I make only have about 16mm available for the connector.

Some of the T6 grades of aluminum are pretty tough, not that much softer than brass so it would be possible to use it, but you'd have the same problem with the threads.  Not much help there.  Though it's a very good conductor and it's inexpensive for material and machining costs. 

There's a pretty huge difference in the toughness of threads in steel compared to any other inexpensive metal.  Titanium is even tougher than steel, but the stuff is cost prohibitive.  The material is expensive and it's expensive to machine because it's so hard.  It's not a great conductor either, probably not much better than SS.  I'd have to go look it up, but I remember it's rather low on the conductivity chart.  Can't remember if it's above or below SS.

I seem to never avoid spilling juice out of my atomizers at some point.  So, the catch cup has been quite handy for me.  Helps keep any spills from running down the mod.  Though, it really would be no big deal if it wasn't there.  It's not something that happens all the time.

It's certainly possible to use the brass connectors available presently without issue, but I have no regrets paying the money for something that's indestructible.

[Visus]

The whole link needs an update
its truly great for inexpensive connectors.

I like the top caps idea as being the proper size for an atomizer connection not a 510  lol big whopping 1/2" connectors like a hybrid...
Un feasable but cable connectors last a good long time

Im designing a hybrid vv madmod for bottom feeding and a 510 on a bottom feeder that is not SS seems nasty.  I cleaned a ego head with vinegar and it rusted overnight seriously decaying rust so cheaping out on a connector is where we all have had to rifle thru different sites to find a proper 510 and finding Craigs being the one needed customizable no drip cup or air ridge etc but slag and jostle the wagon limber instead of excessive in the 510 connection.

Shivers, rust, mon'' rust, vaping a carto sometimes rust there so I now need that connector .  lol

[CraigHB]

SS is  impervious to any solvents used for cleaning, however, I have found one thing it's not resistant to at all.  I spilled some ferric circuit board etching acid in the sink and it quickly burned a permanent spot in the stainless tub.

The center post on my connector is brass for good conductivity and solderability so that part is not as resistant to non-neutral solvents like vinegar.  It would be a good idea to pay the premium to have that post nickel plated.  I didn't specify that in the drawings.  The ones I did are bare brass which does require some polishing every once in a while to keep it shiny for optimal contact performance.  Though the abrasion from removing and replacing the atomizer tends to keep it shiny anyway.

[octoman]

  thanks buddy for sharing your connector with us. If only someone would start a co-op

[Breaktru]

I would definitely buy some for a bigger mod box if the co-op price was right. They are sweet looking as well as quality superior.

[CraigHB]

If an order could be put together for 1000 units, I imagine it could get the cost down to about $5 a piece.  To go full tilt on quality with a polyimide insulator and nickel plated center post, it would be about $10 a unit I imagine.

[redwolfe]

If they were $5 a piece I would get a few for personal use myself.

[CraigHB]

For sure, I'd stock up more as well.  I paid a lot more than that for my low quantity.  Plus it provides an opportunity for improvements (make the lip flat with notches on the drip cup).

[beamrider]

Hell, for $5-10 apiece, I'd surely be in for at least 20.

[Visus]

Fasttech has a service that may honor this request they have shelved and purchased  everything I have  asked and the price would be marginally better.   

another idea at it

[Littlefeather]

Mamu gave me an idea with the little atty washer. Thanks! Light bulb goes on! I picked up this .020 PTFE film a couple of years ago at an estate sale along with a bunch of other materials. You can pick up a sheet for about $10-12 dollars. That’s a lot of washer worth!
http://www.eplastics.com/Plastic?search=ptfe+.020
Saw a friend scrapbooking and using this technique. You’ll need two paper punches, one 1/8” & one ¼”. Remove the catch guard on the ¼” punch (1/8” drill bit took the rivet out). You’ll need to be able to see the back side for alignment. The fit is perfect! Fix all those egos and new mods! Made 100 in about 20 minute including vape break.

[kortt]

DANG!  Good idea!  Thanks for sharing. 

[Visus]

excellent idea

break has posted idea similar with modifying the white top caps on carts, this makes it a lot easier if had a sheet and punches lol..   Small hole punch first, line it up,  big hole punch woot.

[Erck89]

Yeah they suck. Next time lubricate the insulator before pushing them out. They are made like garbage.

4 for $1.49 at: Avid Vaper

   One of the things I do is repair eGo style batteries that people have knocked the threads out of or, more often, no longer can get their device(s) to make contact with the center electrode (as the Chinese call it).  The seal that center contact goes into is called a bung seal and the are 4 different variations.  Most often, the determining factor on which one to use is how close the PC board comes to the top of the connector.  When they get compressed the center contact no longer makes contact with the device center contact.  That bung seal can be replaced without removing the connector from the battery body or DE soldering anything.  Just pull the center contact from the seal with dental tool with a heavy 90 degree bend extending about 1/4" and ground flat on the inside surface.  Work it around the contact, prying it up a little at a time.   Be gentle, the wire may be a bit short.  How pull the old bung seal out and cut it free of the wire.  Your new bung seal WILL fit over the contact.  Work It completely over the contact pin.  With forceps or whatever works for you, get the seal started into the hole.  With the flat end of a tool a little smaller than the inside of the connector, push the seal the rest of the way into the hole.  You have to push hard and rock it in circles.  Don't worry about the wire/  With the seal in place, work the wire down into the hole and then use the same flat ended tool to push the contact into the seal.  Works like a champ.

             

[Breaktru]

Well they finally started selling Stainless Steel 510 connectors. The center pin is nickel plated brass so it can be soldered. Unfortunately the negative can not be soldered because it is SS. Recommended mounting is to press fit it into a metal enclosure to complete the ground path.
AVID VAPERS

[mamu]

$7.99 ach!  forget that lol.

I wonder if ss can be soldered to using aluminum solder?  Or just scruffing the area to be soldered with a dremel and then using flux prior to soldering?

Maybe I should do some detective work and see what China supplier Cisco is getting them from. 

[Breaktru]

Yeah 7.99 is a bit much for me.

I found a video on soldering SS to copper with a torch, Silver Solder and Flux.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suvkKuEURww

[bapgood]

I will get the part number when I get home, but I picked up a ss solder kit from a local weld supply place. It makes soldering to even thicker ss fairly straight forward with just an iron.

People have reported cleaning the ss up real good and using a flux like the below is all that is needed to solder to ss using regular solder and iron.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007BGYQEC/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AKJ57Q9VZBBO8


I solder to ss quite regularly now. Here are some pics of a ss battery holder I made. I pressed in the end cap and soldered it a little to make sure it stayed put, as well as soldering a wire to the tube.