Breaktru Forum
eCigarette Forum => Modding => Topic started by: redwolfe on December 20, 2012, 01:28:36 AM
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With the upcoming release of the DNA20D, I've been preparing for its release and lately gathered many parts for the prototype of my mod. I have already purchased a few cels from Hobby King (the 2200 mAh 20C turnigy lipos) and am waiting for them to arrive. I have 6 of the 2200 mah cells coming and when I've used those I plan on going to 2 1000mah cells in parallel to make the mod slightly smaller. It only cuts off about 20mm from the total height of the mod but I want to use as little space as possible and still have a long battery life. I have a DNA micro usb charger on hand and am waiting for the remaining parts. Now the big obstacle I am having is getting the enclosure made and because I enjoy making 3D models, I took the time to make one via 3DSMAX. I really like how it turned out. I have talked to a local machinist who is a good friend and vaper and he has told me that because I am making a custom case out of aluminum I would pay out the rear end. He did suggest using delrin for a protoype enclosure to make sure the measurements are correct because it will be much cheaper. I have even thought about going the same route Craig did with his awesome Powerbloks and having a few cases made by means of Selective Laser Sintering but my search for a local place has come up with nil for the moment. I'll keep looking and hopefully find something soon.
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Can't wait to see the final product
good luck on finding somebody to manufacture the box for you,
Styl3®
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Can't wait to see the final product
good luck on finding somebody to manufacture the box for you,
Styl3®
Me 2. Can't wait
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Now the big obstacle I am having is getting the enclosure made and because I enjoy making 3D models, I took the time to make one via 3DSMAX. I really like how it turned out. I have talked to a local machinist who is a good friend and vaper and he has told me that because I am making a custom case out of aluminum I would pay out the rear end. He did suggest using delrin for a protoype enclosure to make sure the measurements are correct because it will be much cheaper. I have even thought about going the same route Craig did with his awesome Powerbloks and having a few cases made by means of Selective Laser Sintering but my search for a local place has come up with nil for the moment. I'll keep looking and hopefully find something soon.
If you use SLS it will cost about $60 a pop if you order 10 enclosures using glass filled nylon. It seems that a quantity of 10 gets the best price break, but that's a rather high number of units just for personal use. The price per unit goes up with a lower quantity. It's probably a couple hundred dollars for one unit.
I use Solid Concepts (https://www.solidconcepts.com/).
CNC actually provides a much cleaner finish than SLS, though the material wont be as rigid unless it's done in metal. You'll have to do some sanding with SLS and it has to be painted since the material is porous. The up side is it's very strong and very light with good heat tolerance.
From what I've found, it seems that SLS is the cheapest rapid prototyping service. It also provides the most functional, durable parts of all the additive methods. The only way to get parts made cheaper is to pay $5k for a mold and pump out a couple thousand of them.
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You could, just for the prototype, make your own from ABS to make sure your dimensions are good before spending out money to have them fabricated.
I found this article
http://talkingelectronics.com/projects/Boxes/BJones-BoxArticle.html
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But then it's ABS which is not particularly rigid, flexible, tolerant to temperature, or tolerant to solvents. It's cheap though. However, you can do the same thing with tougher sheet plastics like Plexiglass and Lexan. Though none of them are as tough as GF nylon.
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Yeah something like that , you should be able to at least make a proto type just to make sure everything fits. I also found a link for home vanuum forming. But don't think you could form a thick enough substance...
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I don't know if you've used a 3D modeling progam, but the professional ones are good enough you really don't need to physically build the model to make sure everything fits. You build the model in the program and it makes sure everthing fits for you. That's kind of the whole point of the program, but also to ouput the plot files required for the tooling.
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Wow, thanks for all the advice on the enclosure. I will definitely take it all into consideration. I spent the last six hours modeling in 3dsmax and have come up with these renders. The 2000mah version is on the left and the 2200mah is on the right. I may just stick with the 2200mah version since its not as big as my original designs were. Its only 113mm x 40mm x 20mm. The 2000mah is 106mm x 40mm x 14mm.
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Wow, thanks for all the advice on the enclosure. I will definitely take it all into consideration. I spent the last six hours modeling in 3dsmax and have come up with these renders. The 2000mah version is on the left and the 2200mah is on the right. I may just stick with the 2200mah version since its not as big as my original designs were. Its only 113mm x 40mm x 20mm. The 2000mah is 106mm x 40mm x 14mm.
Looking good wolfe. Owwwwww.
I wish I had 3D cad expertize like you guys. Makes me drool..... guess I have to stick with the off the shelf enclosures
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Looking great there redwolfe. Personally, I would take a look at a model that stacks two of the 1000mAh cells for a shorter fatter version. It's probably just me, but I've acquired an aversion to mods that carry some length. I'd much rather go thicker than longer.
@Dave, the hardest part is getting a hold of some software capable of outputting STL files without costing an arm and a leg. I happen to have a buddy that turned me on to a student license for Solidworks which costs about $6k for a professional license, IIRC. I hadn't used a 3D modeling program up until that point. Took me probably about 20 hours of working with the tutorials before I could actually design an enclosure. Probably half that for you since you're used to working with complex software. Not like you have to take a course in college to learn how to do this stuff.
Google Sketch-Up is a fairly full featured 3D modeling program that can be used for free. It can output STL files with a plug-in which is a critical requirement. However, it does lack the precision of a professional program and does not work with assemblies which is important when doing fit checks. Though it would be possible to design a part and output the manufacturing file with it.
An afterthought; if you plan to go with SLS, one thing that can mess you up is the 1mm mininimum feature requirment. It's strict. The resolution with SLS is not as good as CNC. I had to do my enclosure walls at 2mm to allow for an L mating. I initially did a 1.6mm enclosure wall which was not acceptable because of a 0.8mm tounge. I had to redo all my drawings.
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Since I have already ordered the 2200 cells I plan on using those first. Then I will go to the 2 1000mah parallel version. I must have redesigned the enclosure 6 or 7 times before the current models. Both are as small as I think I am going to get them for now. I also did a drawing in Illustrator and printed it for reference. It's pretty small considering how big the render looks.
My 3d modeling skills come about 50/50 from classes and self taught. It comes in handy to kill time for fun or for something like this. Also learning a complex program takes time and patience. There have been several occasions when I have become frustrated with what I was doing and had to walk away.
@Craig
Edit: After replying with the above, I noticed you said you had to redo your drawings with 2mm walls. I have designed my drawings with that wall thickness to begin with so I should not have a problem if I decide to go with SLS.
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You're covered then. Just wanted to mention that because it got me bad when I went to production. I was delayed for a time redoing all the drawings. Was pretty discouraged with that since I had put quite a bit of time into the set I thought was ready.
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Since I have already ordered the 2200 cells I plan on using those first. Then I will go to the 2 1000mah parallel version. I must have redesigned the enclosure 6 or 7 times before the current models. Both are as small as I think I am going to get them for now. I also did a drawing in Illustrator and printed it for reference. It's pretty small considering how big the render looks.
My 3d modeling skills come about 50/50 from classes and self taught. It comes in handy to kill time for fun or for something like this. Also learning a complex program takes time and patience. There have been several occasions when I have become frustrated with what I was doing and had to walk away.
@Craig
Edit: After replying with the above, I noticed you said you had to redo your drawings with 2mm walls. I have designed my drawings with that wall thickness to begin with so I should not have a problem if I decide to go with SLS.
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I like what you said about the getting frustrated and walking away. The walking away trick deffinatly works, just walk away for an hour or so and then 9 times out of 10 you can resolve the problem. Where if you stayed trying to resolve it 3 hours later you are no clearer to solving the porblem.
Best tip ever "walk away" :thumbsup:
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Well last night while I was double checking my enclosure render I found a few errors I couldn't fix in the state it was. I ended up redoing it from scratch. Hopefully it will be the last time. :) Anyway I ordered a DNA20 chip as well so I have that to look forward to next week. Can't wait for it to get here. I will try to mod it into something until my lipos arrive. Now to get the enclosure made.
Pics below. The forum isn't letting me post attachments right now for some reason.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6trrnd9i2u2nqlf/dna20_01.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6trrnd9i2u2nqlf/dna20_02.jpg
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I submitted my renders to Solid Concepts and it would cost around $160 each for the enclosure pieces. That kind of cash I don't have right now so I need to find another option.
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I submitted my renders to Solid Concepts and it would cost around $160 each for the enclosure pieces. That kind of cash I don't have right now so I need to find another option.
That's too bad wolfe. Fantastic modeling. Wish I could reach out and grab one they look so good. But I would cut the length in half. I'm a compact kinda guy... LOL
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The forum isn't letting me post attachments right now for some reason.
I tried to fix the link but there is something wrong with it. Also it is a secure hyper-link (https) that I believe is not compatible with the forum coding.
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I tried to fix the link but there is something wrong with it. Also it is a secure hyper-link (https) that I believe is not compatible with the forum coding.
I was having problem pos actual pictures. I kept getting a 409 error and the site saying that my request was processed but my browser couldn't compile the data. I had never seen something like that before.
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I was having problem pos actual pictures. I kept getting a 409 error and the site saying that my request was processed but my browser couldn't compile the data. I had never seen something like that before.
The links that you posted in Reply #14 have stopped working. They worked the first time.
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I submitted my renders to Solid Concepts and it would cost around $160 each for the enclosure pieces. That kind of cash I don't have right now so I need to find another option.
CNC is cheaper for onesy twosies I think. Did you try that option?
There's just no way to get things custom made cheap. If you order a larger quantity you can get the unit cost down, but that won't help if you don't plan to build a number of them.
Another option is build your own 3D printer, but it's not cheap either. It could pay for itself if you make enough parts with it. The CNC type would be best for what you want to do. The additive type are also popular, but they don't have very good resolution among other drawbacks. There's a whole community of hobbyists into that kind of thing, lots of info on the net.
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Lets try this. The forum is still giving me grief for adding attachments.
Here are the newest renders for my enclosure.
[Photos Deleted]
Below is the error message I get when I try to add attachments.
[Photo Deleted]
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CNC is cheaper for onesy twosies I think. Did you try that option?
There's just no way to get things custom made cheap. If you order a larger quantity you can get the unit cost down, but that won't help if you don't plan to build a number of them.
Another option is build your own 3D printer, but it's not cheap either. It could pay for itself if you make enough parts with it. The CNC type would be best for what you want to do. The additive type are also popular, but they don't have very good resolution among other drawbacks. There's a whole community of hobbyists into that kind of thing, lots of info on the net.
I submitted a quote request for the CNC option. I do plan on building quite a few as gifts for close friends. I may have to get a few of your stainless connectors from you since they look the best out there in my opnion. Too bad they aren't available at a vendor.
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yeah if you could find somebody with a 3d printer...wow thats the way to go
Craig, i just watched a 3d printer making a working wrench in one hit with all moving parts.............. Pretty Star trek like their replicator.... i am blown away. Now
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yeah if you could find somebody with a 3d printer...wow thats the way to go
Craig, i just watched a 3d printer making a working wrench in one hit with all moving parts.............. Pretty Star trek like their replicator.... i am blown away. Now
Yeah, it is amazing technology. Like the Jetson's
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I now know what i want for Christmas .......... :laughing2:
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Well luckily i do know someone with a 3d printer. I could ask him to take a look at it for me and see what he says.
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:wallbash: OK I figured out why the price of the prototype enclosure was so high. I submitted the two pieces as seperate files and had 'inside/out' finish selected. I resubmitted the pieces as one STL file and selected no finish and standard dry blast. It brought the price for 1 down to $123! MUCH more reasonable!! 6 for $70! Now to get them made! :rockin smiley: :thumbsup:
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Nice one .... happy days
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They won't take two separate parts as one file. The online quote system will take it, but you'll get a call from an engineer saying they can't produce it. Shouldn't matter much though. The cost goes by unit quantity and the amount of material used per unit. Two files that contain one part each should cost about the same for the both of them as two parts in a single file. If you really want to use a single file you could probably connect the parts with breakaway leaders to make them producable as one part, but I wouldn't do that myself.
For lowest cost, select nylon 12 GF under material, None (Unfinished) under Hand Finish, and Wet/Dry Blast under Surface Treatment. You will need to sand and paint the parts to finish them. The upside is you will be amazed how strong and light they are. The stuff is a fiber composite and it has all its advantages. The solvent tolerance is really good too. My parts have held up well to juice, alcohol, mineral spirits, and acetone with no degredation in hardness.
I had a lot of trouble with paint. Most paints don't cut it, juice dissolves them over time. I found a hard lacquer that holds up well to juice and finger grease. You might want to test your paint against juice exposure first. I assumed an enamel would work well on the first build and then had to strip and refinish after I realized it was no good.
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They won't take two separate parts as one file. The online quote system will take it, but you'll get a call from an engineer saying they can't produce it. Shouldn't matter much though. The cost goes by unit quantity and the amount of material used per unit. Two files that contain one part each should cost about the same for the both of them as two parts in a single file. If you really want to use a single file you could probably connect the parts with breakaway leaders to make them producable as one part, but I wouldn't do that myself.
For lowest cost, select nylon 12 GF under material, None (Unfinished) under Hand Finish, and Wet/Dry Blast under Surface Treatment. You will need to sand and paint the parts to finish them. The upside is you will be amazed how strong and light they are. The stuff is a fiber composite and it has all its advantages. The solvent tolerance is really good too. My parts have held up well to juice, alcohol, mineral spirits, and acetone with no degredation in hardness.
I had a lot of trouble with paint. Most paints don't cut it, juice dissolves them over time. I found a hard lacquer that holds up well to juice and finger grease. You might want to test your paint against juice exposure first. I assumed an enamel would work well on the first build and then had to strip and refinish after I realized it was no good.
I tried again and submitted the separate files and they came out to $95 a piece. The single file with both parts came to $124. Just wondering why you wouldn't want to connect the parts with breakaway leaders since that seems to be the better price with them in the same file.
I don't mind sanding and painting the parts myself since I intended to do that anyway. I have Dupli Color automotive spray paint
and clear coat I will be using to paint them.
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Hmm, bigger difference than I thought. Well, you'll have some stumps you'll have to sand down if the parts are connected. The stuff is pretty hard and takes quite a bit of elbow grease to remove a lot of material. I wouldn't want to deal with it.
Don't know why your order has such a higher unit cost than mine did, it was $60 a set for my parts in quantity of 10 versus almost $200 a set for yours in quantity of 6, yeah? That doesn't sound right, unless the price has gone up drastically since 3 months ago.
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Hmm, bigger difference than I thought. Well, you'll have some stumps you'll have to sand down if the parts are connected. The stuff is pretty hard and takes quite a bit of elbow grease to remove a lot of material. I wouldn't want to deal with it.
Don't know why your order has such a higher unit cost than mine did, it was $60 a set for my parts in quantity of 10 versus almost $200 a set for yours in quantity of 6, yeah? That doesn't sound right, unless the price has gone up drastically since 3 months ago.
The $200 price tag is for only 1 set. If i do 10 of each it will be about $80 a set. I would rather have them connected and sand the stumps down for $124 for 1 set. I have the tools to do it so it will be a bit more (or a lot more) effort required for me. Plus i just realized last night i have to model the parts yet again anyway. So that should be fun. Practice makes perfect though right?
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Well, revising your drawings is pretty much par for the course. You'll be bummed if you get the parts and something is not right. Always makes me nervous when I actually submit drawings for production. It's like, "hope there aren't any mistakes." Seems you can never proof things to your own satisfaction.
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Going back to the 3d printer just been looking at different home type 3d printers and came across this the solidoodle and really reasonably priced starting @ $499 see here
http://store.solidoodle.com/
You could get that back in no time !!!!!
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Going back to the 3d printer just been looking at different home type 3d printers and came across this the solidoodle and really reasonably priced starting @ $499 see here
http://store.solidoodle.com/
You could get that back in no time !!!!!
That would be great for prototyping but since it uses ABS filament that would not hold up very well in the long run.
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Z axis resolution is typically .3mm on that, too coarse for something like a small mod enclosure. It might be possible to get the resolution you need out of it, but maybe not. Also, it's limited to ABS filament which is not a particularly tough plastic. The enclosure for an e-cig mod needs to be able to endure a lot of abuse like heat, solvent exposure, impact, and abrasion. The price is right though. Most other 3D printers either in kit form or ready to use start over $1000. You'd have to try it, but you'd be paying your nickel and taking your chances.
CNC printers are better since the resolution is typically .1mm and you can use Delrin stock. It's a good plastic, fairly tough, good solvent tolerance, good heat tolerance, but it's not as hard and rigid as the composites used for SLS. If money is no object, there's even a carbon fiber composite you can use with SLS that has amazingly high flexural modulus (rigidity), higher than aluminum. You can make stuff with aluminum stock using a CNC printer as well. You can also make fairly complex two sided circuit boards with one.
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Still think it would be good for prototyping. And once the model is perfect you could then go to production. There is also a guy, in the UK, that rents them out for £89 per week http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Makerbot-Replicator-Twin-Extruder-1-week-rental-Reprap-3d-printer-/271118725503?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f1fef717f
I don't know if there might be something like that where you are.
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Just got a call from Solid Concepts about the quote I submitted. They thought I had some trouble with the system since on their end it showed I submitted 2 identical quotes. I checked my account and it showed only the one I ordered. Not sure what that problem was. He also asked if there was a certain time frame I needed the enclosure in and I said no the normal time is fine. I can't wait to get it.
Checking the tracking on my Lipo cells shows they were in Singapore on the 19th. Hope I get them very soon.
Now to get my DNA20 chip into a temporary box today so I can test it. :)
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:beer-toast: Sounds like things are moving along nicely. Won't be long now. Makes sure you do some thorough testing of the board before installing it into a box. Just saying
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:beer-toast: Sounds like things are moving along nicely. Won't be long now. Makes sure you do some thorough testing of the board before installing it into a box. Just saying
I planned on doing that well before it went in the box. It may not even go in a box until I get my lipos and prototype enclosure. So until then it will be kept out for testing.
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Be careful about resoldering wires. If you're not using a good variable temperature iron, you can easily fry the board resoldering wires onto it. I'd use solid wire. It's a lot tougher than stranded. As long as it doesn't need to be flexed repeatedly, it doesn't fray and break easily at the solder joint the way stranded wire does. It looks like the display is rather delicate. I'd handle it with a lot of care.
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Right now the only iron I have on hand is a standard 30 watt one. My Dad just bought a really nice 100 watt iron today but I won't use that one as it doesn't have variable control on it. There was no way I would use stranded wire and though it would work it looks like it could break pretty easily if you weren't very careful.
True the display is somewhat delicate. I'm thinking of a way to protect it. I might sandwich it between 2 pieces of plexi-glass and secure it with some clear vinyl tape.
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Finally got my DNA20 chip bread boarded and testing it out. That was the longest 3 hrs ever! :laughing2: Vapes really well even though it's not in a box. I'm pretty freaking proud of myself right now.
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Very nice RW :beer-toast:
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:rockin smiley: Woo-hoo! The Li-po cells I ordered almost a month ago from Hobby King just arrived! ;cheers;
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:rockin smiley: Woo-hoo! The Li-po cells I ordered almost a month ago from Hobby King just arrived! ;cheers;
Nice - got mine yesterday
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Today I spent several hours in Fritzing working on the PCB for my mod and I got it finished with a little help from Synchro (thanks buddy) and wanted to know what everyone else here thought about it. If there are any errors at all or improvements I can make please feel free to point them out. This is a 2-layer board. Yes I know there is a bit of empty space there but the current design is how I had it in my head earlier today when I thought of it.
Since I have already ordered through-hole PTC's for the mod I will use those first and then redesign it to use SMD style fuses.
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After doing a little further reading I found some of my own errors. :facepalm: I removed right angles in the traces and changed them to 45 degree as best I could. Also added the ground layer to the negative end of the battery (hopefully that's right). This is fun stuff.
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Well, the first one is almost finished! Got the PTC fuse, lipo cell, microUSB charger, and up/down buttons wired on. Now I need to get it in a nice enclosure. Next time I won't do it like this, I just wanted to use it lol.
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Well, the first one is almost finished! Got the PTC fuse, lipo cell, microUSB charger, and up/down buttons wired on. Now I need to get it in a nice enclosure. Next time I won't do it like this, I just wanted to use it lol.
Cool RW. Betcha can't wait to have it completed.
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Cool RW. Betcha can't wait to have it completed.
I really cant wait. It's kind of awkward to use in it's current condition. LOL
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Hurry up and finish it RW as i can't wait any longer.... the suspense is killing me :laughing2:
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Just thought I'd give a little update. I decided to ditch the large PCB I was working on and decided to go with a simple smaller one with pads for soldering SMD PTCs and the Lipo Tabs. I have already ordered them from OshPark and they should be here within the next few days. The render preview is below. It measures 19mm x 31mm
Also got SolidWorks for modeling. Which I should have done weeks ago, no idea how I skimmed right by Craig mentioning it. I love this program and what I can do with it.
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Took me a while to learn how to use Soildworks, but it's fine once you get it down. It seems to be pretty flexible and it's easy to do what you want. Other than the cost, I have no complaints about it. I was just lucky to have a friend that turned me on to a student license. Even the student license isn't cheap.
That PCB looks more reasonable. Was wondering why you were using such a large PCB just to make a few connections.
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I personally found SolidWorks easy and quick to learn. Been at it for 2 days so far and it's by far the quickest software I've learned to use. Not completely, but I can do most of what it offers.
I've already finished the latest model for the enclosure as well as the model for connector. The connector is not meant to be a copy of Craig's design, but rather inspired by it. Some of the dimensions are different and I also added two shallow slots on the outside edge for airflow just in case tanks sit flush with the top.
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Now that looks super good. And you learned this all in a couple of days? Fantastic
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Nice work. I like that connector design. Can I have one? lol
How much knowledge will transfer from 3dsmax over to solidworks? Is it a mater of transferring terms like vertex snapping or boolean subtraction, etc over to what solidworks calls them or is it more like blender?
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3dsMax and Solidworks are very different from each other. 3dsmax is a program that focuses on modelling for animation while Solidworks focuses on modeling for manufacturing. The only similarity I see between them is the boolean/proboolean subtraction, addition, and unify. I have not used Blender so I don't know how similar it is to Solidworks.
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3dsMax and Solidworks are very different from each other. 3dsmax is a program that focuses on modelling for animation while Solidworks focuses on modeling for manufacturing. The only similarity I see between them is the boolean/proboolean subtraction, addition, and unify. I have not used Blender so I don't know how similar it is to Solidworks.
Ok, I see. I've been using 3ds for about 8 years and tried to learn Blender...totally different animal in most respects. It's sometimes hard to switch once you get set in your ways lol. ;bow;
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Ok, I see. I've been using 3ds for about 8 years and tried to learn Blender...totally different animal in most respects. It's sometimes hard to switch once you get set in your ways lol. ;bow;
I know what you mean. I have only been using 3dsmax for about 3 years and I still don't fully comprehend what it is capable of.
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I was curious if this would work, but since I have PCBs coming for the Lipos, instead of wiring the DNA charge board to the DNA20 board, can I instead wire from the charge board to the pads on the PCB next to the Lipo tabs? Will this work or should I just wire to the DNA20 board as intended?
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I was curious if this would work, but since I have PCBs coming for the Lipos, instead of wiring the DNA charge board to the DNA20 board, can I instead wire from the charge board to the pads on the PCB next to the Lipo tabs? Will this work or should I just wire to the DNA20 board as intended?
Yes the charger can be wired directly to the Li-Po pads and do not have to be wired to the Charge points on the DNA
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Awesome. I noticed that's how the Darwin is wired but i wanted to ask and make sure before i attempted it.
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Woo-hoo! My PCB's arrived today.
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Hey cool. Always nice when cool new stuff arrives.
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Yes DZ, very cool :rockin smiley:
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Those Osh Park PCBs are really nice, aren't they. Great quality and super inexpensive too!
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Yeah they are fantastic quality! Price is great too. I do wish it didn't take so long to get them, but unfortunately you have to deal with it being in a co-op.
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A week turn around time is about the best you can do even even when ordering direct. For most PCB fabs, the price jumps quite a bit when you go shorter. Even then, it's quite a bit more expensive. Waiting for PCBs is something you just have to get used to. At least the turn time is under 2 weeks for the two layer boards. I have to wait 3 to 4 weeks for the four layer boards I use.
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Update on my DNA20D mod:
Finally got a reliable solder station, the Hakko FX888. Solders wonderfully. I turn it on and its ready to go in less than 5 seconds. Tomorrow I plan on throwing together the DNA20 so I can actually use it.
I am still working on the actual enclosure. Thought I had it all finished but I messed up on the measurements and had started over again. Will have the 3d model finished tomorrow or possibly on Monday. Very excited to have this finished soon and a working device in my hands.
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Congrats on the S.S. Don't know why I waited so long before buying one. What a pleasure.
Good luck w/ finishing your enclosure.
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Today I finally got the wiring done for my DNA20D mod. All thats left to do is epoxy the 510 connector and potentiometer in place and drill out the holes for the OLED screen, Pot, and USB connector. Though when I connected the batteries to the board, this was what came up on the screen. Disconnecting the cells fixed the problem but I still want to know what happened to cause it.
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That's a communications error. There's a couple ways that can happen. One is a timing issue between the controller and the display, a software glitch. The other is a connection problem or an electrical noise problem causing an issue with communications. It's likely just a glitch. If it doesn't happen repeatedly, I wouldn't get concerned over it. Though ideally, the display should never fail to comunicate with the controller properly. It's up to the programmer to ensure that can't happen due to a software timing issue, but it can happen once in a while if the coding isn't as tight as it should be.
In any case, good to see you getting your DNA mod together.
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Today I finally got the wiring done for my DNA20D mod. All thats left to do is epoxy the 510 connector and potentiometer in place and drill out the holes for the OLED screen, Pot, and USB connector. Though when I connected the batteries to the board, this was what came up on the screen. Disconnecting the cells fixed the problem but I still want to know what happened to cause it.
Yes it is a rare occurrence but it can happen as it did in my beta test version. Disconnecting the batt will correct it.
I had pointed it out in the beginning to Brandon and I suggested a reset button for those of us who solder the battery directly in place.
I mentioned it starting in post number...... REST (http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/battery-mods/357550-mails-dna20-has-arrived-8.html#post8309127)
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Well joy...today was planning on getting my DNA20 box finally finished. While working on it, I slipped, knocking the box away and my ring caught the OLED screen and snapped the cable straight off the board. :wallbash:
It would be so much better if the screen was directly mounted on the board...
I'm going to email Brandon and see what he can do.
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That sucks. Those FPC cables are really a pain in the neck. I did a non-ecig project some time ago that used a display with one of those. However, mine had a connector on the PCB, the cable wasn't soldered in. I could remove and replace the display. Still, had a cable fail on me where it connected at the display. Glad I'm not using any of those right now. I try to avoid them.
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My condolences :facepalm: boy do I know what that's like
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oh boy that is painful. Sorry to see that. Hope Brandon comes through for you
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Aw man :( That is too bad. Hopefully it can be fixed? I fried a DNA12 somehow during my last build, and even at $35 it's a costly loss.
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I got an email from Brandon this morning telling me to return it and he'll send out a new replacement for me. :thumbsup:
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I got an email from Brandon this morning telling me to return it and he'll send out a new replacement for me. :thumbsup:
That's great news. Good ole Brandon... what a guy
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Wow, that's awesome customer support!
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For sure, that's above and beyond.
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I got my replacement DNA20 board today :D. Now I'm just waiting on a shipment from mouser. Ordered a couple Hammond enclosures, PTC fuses, tactile switches and potentiometers. I still have to get some epoxy as well. Gonna see if I can get it locally first before I order it from HMC Electronics, as the $10 minimum shipping isn't worth it to me unless I make a larger order. This is what I plan on getting, though
Devcon 5 min Epoxy (http://www.hmcelectronics.com/product/Devcon/14250)
Devon plastic welder (http://www.hmcelectronics.com/product/Devcon/14300)
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With the cost of gas, driving to the store isn't that much cheaper either :(
BTW, you can ask Mouser to ship stuff via first class mail in the Shipping instructions. If you select USPS priority mail then put a shipping note to send first class, they'll do it. For small items, I've had shipping fees under $2 from them.
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I got my replacement DNA20 board today :D. Now I'm just waiting on a shipment from mouser. Ordered a couple Hammond enclosures, PTC fuses, tactile switches and potentiometers. I still have to get some epoxy as well. Gonna see if I can get it locally first before I order it from HMC Electronics, as the $10 minimum shipping isn't worth it to me unless I make a larger order. This is what I plan on getting, though
Devcon 5 min Epoxy (http://www.hmcelectronics.com/product/Devcon/14250)
Devon plastic welder (http://www.hmcelectronics.com/product/Devcon/14300)
Sounds like you're all set. Don't forget to post the results.
Haven't used the Devon but I find the Loctite Professional Job Size Epoxy the best I've ever used. Super strong and clear.
(http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/a6/a6f832f6-c10d-4ff2-b239-a467d1c9d67a_300.jpg)
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With the cost of gas, driving to the store isn't that much cheaper either :(
BTW, you can ask Mouser to ship stuff via first class mail in the Shipping instructions. If you select USPS priority mail then put a shipping note to send first class, they'll do it. For small items, I've had shipping fees under $2 from them.
Thanks for the shipping tip for Mouser Craig, I'll keep that in mind for next time! It wasn't too bad this order, only $5 but it's the slowest UPS option. Should be at my door on Monday.
Sounds like you're all set. Don't forget to post the results.
Haven't used the Devon but I find the Loctite Professional Job Size Epoxy the best I've ever used. Super strong and clear.
(http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/a6/a6f832f6-c10d-4ff2-b239-a467d1c9d67a_300.jpg)
Cool I'll give that stuff a try Breaktru. The Devcon stuff I was going to order because it was recommended by Mamu, but if I can get the same quality stuff locally I'll go that route. The JB-Weld I got a few weeks ago didn't work too well unfortunately.
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I got my Loctite at Home Depot. Also sold at Walmart
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This is not my DNA20 but one I built for someone.
(http://i47.tinypic.com/2qu7jmo.jpg)
(http://i45.tinypic.com/29z7cqs.jpg)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2ykg7ew.jpg)
Before you guys comment the atty connector was not secure when I snapped these photos.
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Looks really nice.
Potting it is not a bad idea, makes it impervious to juice. Of course, you can't repair it when you do that. Good and bad there.
Is that a 3.7V battery? Usually when it says "pack" it means it's a 2S battery and above. Did you rewire the pack?
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Looks really nice.
Potting it is not a bad idea, makes it impervious to juice. Of course, you can't repair it when you do that. Good and bad there.
Is that a 3.7V battery? Usually when it says "pack" it means it's a 2S battery and above. Did you rewire the pack?
It is a Hammond 1509b case
It is a single cell 3.7 6000mah pack with 65-130c discharge :)
it can be snagged here http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__24307__Turnigy_nano_tech_A_SPEC_6000mah_1S_65_130C_Hardcase_Lipo_Pack.html
It is a brick house I used it for 5-6 hours and the battery didnt drain hardly at all.
On the potting thing, when I repair peoples mods for them juice is always present inside the mod or the pos. wire comes off with time.
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Looks great Dz! Nice size, giant 6000mah cell, you could vape that a whole week before it needed a charge :laughing2:. Though Hobby King states it is a 1S2P cell so it's 2 3000mah cells in parallel.
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This is not my DNA20 but one I built for someone.
Before you guys comment the atty connector was not secure when I snapped these photos.
Excellent mod :rockin smiley: I like it.
Besides what craig pointed out about encasing the components in glue, COOLING. Encasing traps in the heat.
I like to epoxy the underside of the 510 connector which not only prevents juice from leaking into the enclosure, it prevents the connector insulator from being crushed.
:thumbsup:
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I waited until the epoxy was nice and thick then a placed it on there, it is not very deep but should be enough to handle a drop or 2 and can be popped right out. Now that is for the circuit, the connector on the other hand it is pretty thick.
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I got my order from Mouser today :) now's time to drill out this case and get everything wired up and finished. Should have it done soon.
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Lets try this. The forum is still giving me grief for adding attachments.
Here are the newest renders for my enclosure.
Below is the error message I get when I try to add attachments.
What happened to the photos?
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They probably got deleted on accident. The design has changed anyway so those photos are pretty much irrelevant.
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They probably got deleted on accident. The design has changed anyway so those photos are pretty much irrelevant.
I'll delete the place holders for the missing photos
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I got my order from Mouser today :) now's time to drill out this case and get everything wired up and finished. Should have it done soon.
:popcorn: okay
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Got the cases back from my friend who was nice enough to drill out the holes I needed. Working on putting it all together now. I should have it done later tonight :) Can't wait.
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Got the cases back from my friend who was nice enough to drill out the holes I needed. Working on putting it all together now. I should have it done later tonight :) Can't wait.
Great news. Can't wait to see it too :popcorn:
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Me 2 cant wait to see it :)
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Sweet! Love that mod porn freaked_out:
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Sounds exciting, look forward to seeing it.
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FINALLY its finished!!!
7-20 Variable Wattage
2 1200mah Lipo cells in parallel for 2400mah
300g round actuator tactile switches for fire/up/down
built in Micro Usb charger
Hammond 1590A Aluminum box
Craig's Stainless Connector
I realize that the screen is off center from the cutout but I was so anxious to finally get this together I didn't care. It's working and vaping just AMAZING. Thanks goes to everyone for the advice on everything. Thanks Craig for the Stainless Connector, I really appreciated it, vaping on it and knowing it will never wear out is a huge plus. Thanks Dave for the tip on the Loctite Epoxy it worked perfectly! :thankyou: :thankyou:
This was a fun project and a great start to a new hobby. :)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag123/RedWolfe90/DNA20%20First%20Build/2013-03-15021636_zps65ee9648.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag123/RedWolfe90/DNA20%20First%20Build/2013-03-15022812_zps819d1bc6.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag123/RedWolfe90/DNA20%20First%20Build/2013-03-15021145_zps0be4d772.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag123/RedWolfe90/DNA20%20First%20Build/2013-03-15021655_zpsba6626ef.jpg)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag123/RedWolfe90/DNA20%20First%20Build/2013-03-15021712_zps38b216c0.jpg)
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Looks great. Good to hear you're really enjoying the modding and your first was a success. Love the USB charging in my own mods, I'm sure you'll be really pleased with it. I've been getting great longevity out of the LiPo cells. They seem to hold up really well, better than the round cells.
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:thumbsup: it came out really well. Great job and congrats :rockin smiley:
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Wow, looks great! I'm curious as to vape time on that. You'll have to keep us posted on performance.
:rockin smiley:
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Awesome Job redwolfe :)
Craig you ever going to offer those connectors of yours? :)
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Hmm, probably not. I had enough made for myself and I've already given away as many as I'm going to part with. Problem is, it's too expensive to make them. I'd have to charge more than most people would pay to make it worth my while. Then I'd end up with a bunch of expensive connectors I have to sell at a loss.
If someone wants to form a co-op for a hundred units, I might be able to arrange something.
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Hmm, probably not. I had enough made for myself and I've already given away as many as I'm going to part with. Problem is, it's too expensive to make them. I'd have to charge more than most people would pay to make it worth my while. Then I'd end up with a bunch of expensive connectors I have to sell at a loss.
If someone wants to form a co-op for a hundred units, I might be able to arrange something.
I don't blame you Craig. They are awesome connectors though. I wish a vendor would sell something better than the crap they are selling.
I've replaced a few myself because of them wearing out.
The last couple I replaced I used the 510 extension with the nut and flush mounted it (didn't use the nut). I held it in place by cutting grooves in the sides and epoxying them into the enclosure. The grooves allow the epoxy to grab better so it doesn't spin when tightening the atty.
I don't know what they are made of but they seen stronger than the soft brass ones.
Also, I've notice that all 510 extensions are not made the same. I have 3 types and two don't cut the mustard. The last batch I bought have a slot in the center pin and the pin sits a little higher than the other two making better contact w/ the atty. It also has a better insulator. Believe it or not it was cheaper than the others and is a better connector. They were a $1.79 a piece.
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Connectors are a big source of issue when building your own mods. I also used the over-the-counter ones for a time, but I got fed up with them failing or wearing out. I just bit the bullet and payed through the nose to have a bunch custom made.
To get them down to a price someone would be willing to pay, a supplier would have to produce them in the thousands. That's quite an investment. The other thing is the Chinese have an unfair advantage there. They're able to make stuff for a fraction of the cost anyone else can. That being the case, they tend to use the cheapest materials and processes possible. That's why the ones you see for a few dollars are made of plated brass with soft rubber insulators. They're really cheap to make that way.
I actually sent out to a Chinese machine shop for my connectors. It would have been cost prohibitive through an American machine shop. I imagine if I did a run of 1000, I could get the cost down to maybe $5 a connector, but I don't have the money laying around to do that and I don't have the contacts to move them.
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They are some nice connectors in the event :)
redwolfe did you use evolvs charger or another one?
Has anyone used the sparkfun or chineesr usb chargers with the evolov boards?
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I used Evolv's charger board. It's just small enough to fit in the space in the box. Any other board would have either been to long or too wide.
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They are some nice connectors in the event :)
redwolfe did you use evolvs charger or another one?
Has anyone used the sparkfun or Chinese usb chargers with the evolv boards?
Yes I used all 3 on both Evolv boards. Any USB charger will work.
Like R-W said, it's the space you have to consider.
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Just thought I'd give a little update on my DNA20 "Brick" as I've been calling it.
With a 1.5 ohm atomizer, which is what I normally use, I got right around 30-32 hrs of vape time, which is incredible. Far longer than anything I have owned or used in the past.
A 2.3 ohm atomizer, I get a whopping 42-43 hrs. freaked_out: Yes it may sound outrageous but I am not kidding. I can use this for 2.5 days before it needs to be charged again with this load.
Both of these loads above I use at around 9-11 watts.
And finally when I need an extra kick, I load up a 1 ohm dual coil A7 RBA and pump it up to 17 watts. Boy can this thing kick like a mule! Of course vape time does suffer a lot so I rarely use it like this. I get right around 11 or 12 hrs on this load.
All in all I am very happy with it. I took it with me to VapeBash last month and everyone who saw it WANTED one. If you were there, you know why. Some of the DNA20 mods there, were BIG. Much bigger than they needed to be in my opinion.
I even got an offer from a vendor to supply him with the mod to sell them in his store! I have designed a new enclosure and made it a bit smaller than this one. This also means that battery mah is less--2000 mah instead of 2400 mah like the original. I only decided this because the li-po cells in mine are twice the cost of the ones I picked out to use for the new one.
I'll keep everyone updated. When I have a prototype in my hand I will share it here.
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Fantastic endurance :thumbsup: Li-po's are great
Nice to hear about your VapeBash experience. Must have been great to be there with your cool self built mod. :rockin smiley:
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Dang, that's some awesome vape time. Thanks for the update. :rockin smiley:
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Yeah the run time is pretty sweet. In fact just today I was out fishing on Lake Michigan with my Dad. Took a BCC VapeOnly tank and a bottle of juice to refill. The Brick had a full charge when I left and now, 12 hrs later and according to the battery indicator, it still has 3/4 charge. Not too bad.
I forgot to mention a few weeks ago the ohm meter on the display stopped showing the atomizer resistance so I had to open it up and disconnect the battery. Super easy since I just clipped the positive wires and resoldered them. At the time I was wishing I would have put in a JST connector to make it even more easy. Its too bad there isn't a hard reset button on the board too. That would make it even less painful. :laughing2:
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Great run time. Better with the battery soldered to avoid losses w/ the JST connector. No big deal unsoldering and resoldering. I'm sure it's a rare occurrence when you need to do that.
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I forgot to mention a few weeks ago the ohm meter on the display stopped showing the atomizer resistance so I had to open it up and disconnect the battery.
Sounds like a software bug. I guess they forgot to put a reset button on the DNA20. That should actually never happen. I have a controller reset button externally accessible on my mods, though I've never had to use it other than to reset the hit counter. The software I run is pretty bullet proof, simple and written in assembly, no software bugs for me.
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Sounds like a software bug. I guess they forgot to put a reset button on the DNA20. That should actually never happen. I have a controller reset button externally accessible on my mods, though I've never had to use it other than to reset the hit counter. The software I run is pretty bullet proof, simple and written in assembly, no software bugs for me.
That's one of the reasions I want one of your Powebloks Craig. LOL I pray for the day a production run will come for it :)
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Hehe, maybe someday on the production run.
One thought about the DNA20, as someone who's programmed a number of MCU apps, if I don't incorporate a hardware reset, at the least I always incorporate a software reset. MCU programming 101 states, "always have some kind of reset." Usually, it's just pressing a set of buttons simultaneously. The DNA20 may have something similar, but not documented. May be something to investigate. Could save you some trouble next time.
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There is actually an undocumented way to put in a reset button in the DNA.20 Haven't done it because it's quite rare that the need occurs. On two occasions I just removed battery power.
Like Craig, I have never needed to reset my MCU mods although on my first MCU mod I installed a reset button internally.
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A software reset is usually adequate and it's a really simple thing to add to your program. A properly designed digital device should never require a reset, but you just can't always account for every possible condition and program every exception. For a simple device like an e-cig mod, you can, but more complex devices, not so much.
For my mods, I use a hardware reset that cycles power on the whole system. I wanted to cover the digital pot and that's the only way to do it. Since it was already there, I gave that button the primary function of being a reset for the hit counter.
A reset should never be required, but if it ever does, I want the access. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Especially since the batteries are soldered in and my boxes are sealed shut. Learned that one the hard way, enclosure absolutely has to be juice proof when circuit boards are involved. Though the bottom is vented, the rest is sealed and thats good enough to keep things dry inside.