Breaktru Forum
eCigarette Forum => Modding => Topic started by: david4500 on March 08, 2015, 06:08:24 PM
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https://oshpark.com/projects/k3tN98E9
(http://i.imgur.com/z9fqXVn.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/khk8zQ3.png)
Parts: https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=bc14af5dff
In a 1590G:
(http://i.imgur.com/qUPvaZT.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/sHuO6XB.png)
Maybe room for a tact fire switch in a 1550P:
(http://i.imgur.com/Vjb8w3a.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/2U7o5kC.png)
Much thanks for help the guys from http://www.reddit.com/r/BoxModders/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/boxmodders/. The board is based on their 555 pwm mosfet with p-fet schematic & diagram.
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Great job David. Thanks for sharing with us
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What software are you using for the visuals and schematic?
I see an issue of not knowing what the duty cycle is. Maybe an LED that dims as according to the duty cycle.
I also think for some reason that having it outputting from pin 7 won't work, I say this from experience with what I've built. I ended up using pin 3 to get the duty cycle.
I'm thinking about switching the diodes out for schottky diodes, I have them already but the pain about them is they are 2 times the size of a normal diode. My fault for not paying attention when ordering.
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Diptrace for the pcb design, schematic and 3d preview.
SolidWorks for the render of the enclosure and pcb.
I followed a diagram which was stated to work. The guys on BoxModders had two different diagrams/schematics. I followed the one that used a pfet. That may be why the circuit is connected differently to pin 7 instead of pin 3.
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David! of course youre here LOL
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David! of course youre here LOL
I certainly am. Nice to see your work being posted here. All of these pcbs really seem to be taking off. I'm anxiously awaiting this pcb from oshpark... should have it by the end of the week.
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Got these boards today
(http://i.imgur.com/tpNR3WW.png)
Discovered an error on the pcb. The pattern for the p-channel mosfet, the gate and source are backwards from the actual component. Oops. I was able to get the board to function by flipping the pfet belly side up and bridging solder from the legs to the pads. The oshpark project has been deleted until I make a correction.
Fix with upside down pfet here:
(http://i.imgur.com/gPTsukO.png)
Test fire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85d_IIGTmCk
On the low end of the 10K pot, the whine was audible and gave me a headache. I have some 100K and 50K pots on order to lower the frequency.
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I just want to understand this project correctly....
from what I read/understand, being a mosfet based circuit, its going to deliver the full voltage from the batteries/power source but it uses pulse with modulation to change the duty cycle?
So at 50% power, and a 3.7v source (under load), the 510 connection would be seeing the full 3.7v but with an output that looks like this on an oscilloscope? _|-|_|-|_|-|_|-|_|-|_|-|_|-|- (forgive the crappy looking attempt at a square wave)
I understand the PWM is generating a duty cycle wave, but what about the frequency of that wave?
I always think of my first VV/VW mod which was the Vamo, and I believe was also a PWM based device, but the frequency was pretty slow, and you could tell/hear the duty cycle and it was kind of a funny vape at times. Im guessing a high frequency PWM would "smooth that out"?
Thanks
Very interesting stuff. David4500, I am following all your work, very impressive.
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Actually, the batteries are in series so it 'sees' 7.4 volts which is modulated with the 555 timer to give a lower average voltage. If you modulated a 3.7 volt input you would get a pretty anemic vape. This is a nice simple solution for an efficient buck converter.
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Actually, the batteries are in series so it 'sees' 7.4 volts which is modulated with the 555 timer to give a lower average voltage. If you modulated a 3.7 volt input you would get a pretty anemic vape. This is a nice simple solution for an efficient buck converter.
Thanks for the correction, but it was only an example to help ask the question.... Regardless of what the battery voltage is, its always going to deliver that same source voltage to the coil regardless correct?
So a 50% PWM duty cycle is still firing at 7.4v in its on state, then 0 volts in its off state... essentially regulating the power via PWM though duty cycle (lower average voltage as you said), not via directly though supplying a steady bucked voltage to the coil right?
So that leads me to my next question... quality of vape. What type of frequency of PWM are we talking about, is it still "smooth" like the OKR or Mech, or can you hear/feel the PWM like a vamo?
I assume a higher frequency would provide a better result, but david4500 post says he feels it would be of benefit to lower the frequency via changing the pot value...
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Frequency is 1.44khz (1440hz) set by the 10K pot and 0.1uf capacitor
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1.44%2F%2810*0.1%29%3DFrequency+in+khz (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1.44%2F%2810*0.1%29%3DFrequency+in+khz)
OKR is 600Khz. A Vamo is around 33hz.
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O wow, that's much higher than I thought it was going to be.
Thanks for also referencing the OKR and Vamo... really helps put things into perspective.
Out of curiosity, what has been you favorite board so far between all the designs you have tried?
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There's quite a big difference between a DC-DC converter like the OKR and a PWM regulator. Converters use PWM but the output is purely DC. PWM regulators output a pulse that varies in length. The reason the frequency is high for a converter is because the output is filtered to DC and it takes much less capacitance and inductance to filter a higher frequency.
For PWM regulation the frequency is not particularly critical. When using PWM to power an atomizer it's low because it keeps any noise out of the audible range. PWM regulators can squeal when frequencies are higher. Also, it's better for efficiency when the frequency is lower. MOSFETs are much less efficient at higher frequencies.
PWM regulators do have some big advantages in that they are simple and highly efficient. However they are limited in maximum output by peak input voltage and of course they are not DC so there's limitations in what they can power, motors and heating elements are perfectly suited for that type of regulation.
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I got an idea for a pass-through style box using this board... I thought it would be a fun way to use PWM, but my supply would be 12 volts.
What in this circuit needs to change? Is it just a matter of modifying some of the cap and resistor values?
Thanks for the help!
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You will have to confim with David but I am fairly certain the only changes needed will be the ones he's making to the design to correct his mistakes. The pcb of course needs to be populated with components that are rated for the job. For example. Don't use 16v caps with 4s input, etc
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I run my pwm up to 15v input without trouble
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Newest version. Issues fixed.
https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/4JRetcg2
You can use up to 4 cells in series (16.8 volts). The timer is the lowest rated components at 18 volts. Everything else is rated for 20v or higher.
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I populate all mine with 50v but o wanted to let you confirm any limitations of your own design
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Very nice.
Unbelievable with right battery and fet it can be ran upwards to 900watts+ lol holy shiz
David I love the sound lol, its like the spooling of an electric rc car esc..
Yeah it would get annoying after a while.. maybe :laughing:
I know its switchable but are the bats wired in parallel or series for this board and can insert a charger when parallel?
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The sound never gets old all I vape is pwm
To it
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I'm gonna post this question in this thread,
What is the interest in using 8.4 volts? I feel things get a little scary beyond 4.2 volts.
I going to put this idea out there I think you could use a 556 to add a 10 ( or whatever you like) second cut with the additional 555 time circuitry. I only bring this up because if it's running at 8.4 volts how long does it need to be on to produce satisfying vapor?
I think for your next trace maybe make a tap point to solder in a voltmeter to know the status of the batteries.
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In terms of PWM, peak voltage determines maximum output voltage. With the series cells typically used, maximum output voltage would be minimum battery voltage with 100% duty cycle. Series cells can be run down to 6V to make use of all the available battery capacity. 6V is a reasonable voltage maximum for a regulated mod.
For an unregulated mod it's possible to use series cells to obtain higher power with no detriment. If you write it out in terms of wattage, it's obvious doubling the voltage and doubling the resistance provides the same power compared to a given voltage and resistance. It's always better to use higher voltage to obtain higher power since currents are reduced resulting in less power loss due to resistance in the current path. The problem is that most atomizers are not designed to accommodate a coil twice as long or coils in series. In order for things to work in a similar manner, the coil has to be twice as long or in series instead of parallel for dual coils.
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For an unregulated mod it's possible to use series cells to obtain higher power with no detriment. If you write it out in terms of wattage, it's obvious doubling the voltage and doubling the resistance provides double the power compared to a given voltage and resistance.
Fixed it for you ;) and thank you for your never-ending help and advice on this forum, you are a great asset here. I have to read your posts several times as there is so much in-depth info in them.
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Fixed it for you ;) and thank you for your never-ending help and advice on this forum, you are a great asset here. I have to read your posts several times as there is so much in-depth info in them.
You are both right...
1 ohm + 3.9v = 3.9A / 15.21 Watts
2 ohm + 7.8v = 3.9A / 30.42 Watts
I think the point he was trying to make was that higher voltages you see more efficiency/ less loss as you have less loss via resistances, and you can actually downsize the wiring/gauge requirements when you start using higher voltages.
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I do make mistakes sometimes, thanks for correcting that.
Take two coils in series each one Ohm, series resistance is 2 Ohms, 7.4V with 2 Ohms is 27W, current flow is 3.7A
Take the same two coils in parallel, resistance is 1/2 Ohm, 3.7V with 1/2 Ohm is 27W, current flow is 7.4A
That's the point I was trying to make, same power with half the current. As power loss increases with the square of current it makes a big difference. With series coils there's much less power loss between the battery and load. There's normally not a lot of resistance there but when you get into higher amperages, small resistances can become significant. For example a resistance of a tenth Ohm in the current path between battery and coils would result in a power loss of 7.4A squared times 100 mOhms for 5.5W with the parallel coils. With the series coils it's 3.7A squared times 100 mOhms for 1.4W.
Another advantage with removable cells in terms of series versus parallel is you don't have to be concerned with the potential for meltdown if one of the cells is installed backwards or if there's a big charge mismatch. Parallel cells have to be protected from that occurrence. It's not an issue with series cells.
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Newest version. Now slightly smaller.
https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/KVKnPnxr
(http://i.imgur.com/VE5RDtF.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/knS0mAN.png)
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What could you recommend on soldering SMD components?
I had a nightmare with them when I didn't pay attention to the size I brought (capacitors the size of pinheads) during my first attempt at my take on the 555 timer. I end up using through hole but defeated my intention of space saving.
My problem with SMD is I don't think I have what I need to pull it off
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I just use a decent temp controlled soldering iron and do it by hand... I do have a hot air station but I haven't actually used it yet for soldering, just de-soldering components and heatshrinking.
The right tips do help... just watch some more vids on youtube on the process.
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Flux, plenty of flux. I just use a hakko 888d station set to 660F and use the stock chisel tip. Watched a few youtube videos on "hand soldering surface mount".
If you want some decent sized smd caps or resistors for your own board, try 1206 or 1210 case. They aren't super small. The smallest I've used is 0805 and I found them alright to work with.
http://www.resistorguide.com/resistor-sizes-and-packages/#SMD_resistor_size
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I've done 0403 (1005 metric), those are difficult. 0603 (1608 metric) is what I use most of the time. I solder everything by hand with a fine tip. For the Hakko station I find the T18-BR02 tip works the best with very small parts. It's mainly about the tools, a fine tip, fine wire solder, a pair of sharp tip tweezers, good magnification, and liberal application of flux. A narrow chisel tip should work well down to 0603. The shorter the tip the better.
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Craig, have you ever used hot air? I have an old weller and one of the el'cheapo's with hot air. Ive never tried.
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I was also wondering if solder paste is needed to get solder under the big drain pad on the back of the mosfets? Or does the wire solder (with plenty of flux) wick in there easily?
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Craig, do you have any PCB fabricators to recommend aside from Oshpark?
Ian, I apply some flux to drain pad, lightly tin, apply more flux, place the mosfet, dab flux on the drain tab, tin the tip the iron (chisel tip), apply to the tab and pad and dwell for a few seconds while soldering. You can see the solder melt along the sides and hopefully underneath the drain as well. Although paste would probably be best... I just don't have any.
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Craig, have you ever used hot air? I have an old weller and one of the el'cheapo's with hot air. Ive never tried.
Well, the "proper" way to do SMD is with reflow, either hot air or some kind of oven. Thing is I've been doing electronics projects since the time of discrete transistors and through-hole components and never really graduated from hand soldering. So no, I don't typically use reflow soldering at all. I have done it a few times in a frying pan to remove components, but not for assembly. I don't have a hot air station, but it's on the list of tools to buy.
Craig, do you have any PCB fabricators to recommend aside from Oshpark?
I've been using Osh Park for years now. I started using them when it was just a guy taking co-op orders from DorkBot PDX. I've tried a few others before, but the prices with Osh Park are the best I've found. I'm not loyal to them in any way so if I find someone cheaper, I'd use them. Can't imagine anyone can beat those prices though. You wouldn't believe what I've paid to have PCBs made in small quantity before.
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Newest version. Now slightly smaller.
https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/KVKnPnxr
(http://i.imgur.com/VE5RDtF.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/knS0mAN.png)
Would it be possible to pay someone to do this? I can solder, I just don't know how the hell to solder for SMT/SMD components. I would gladly pay someone for the work, if they could make one or two of these for me. How much would you charge, if it were possible to do this. I've seen the digikey parts list post. It's about $8 not including S&H for the components for this.
Parts List, (SMD/SMT)
http://www.digikey.com/classic/Ordering/AddPart.aspx?WT.z_cid=Shared_Cart
https://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=bc14af5dff
OSH Park - DualParaMos-555PWM v1.4
https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/KVKnPnxr
Awesome design btw David. Very nice.
As far as the soldering SMD/SMT components, I believe it looks possible, but... I could probably do it, but I'll just pay someone that has more experience then myself, to do it this time. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpj3tilIaik
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Well, the "proper" way to do SMD is with reflow, either hot air or some kind of oven. Thing is I've been doing electronics projects since the time of discrete transistors and through-hole components and never really graduated from hand soldering. So no, I don't typically use reflow soldering at all. I have done it a few times in a frying pan to remove components, but not for assembly. I don't have a hot air station, but it's on the list of tools to buy.
Thanks Craig. I was just curious. Since I have a crap load of Davids boards here I might give it a shot.
I've been using Osh Park for years now. I started using them when it was just a guy taking co-op orders from DorkBot PDX. I've tried a few others before, but the prices with Osh Park are the best I've found. I'm not loyal to them in any way so if I find someone cheaper, I'd use them. Can't imagine anyone can beat those prices though. You wouldn't believe what I've paid to have PCBs made in small quantity before.
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:)
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While I am will to attempt it, I am not willing to take the risk of money wasting the parts in a soldering massacre.
Although I am thinking what I could do is mount one side of the board with the parts and tact them in with solder paste and then place into a conventional oven.
Maybe release a through hole version for the noobs.
Also maybe through in an "On' indicator LED.
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While I am will to attempt it, I am not willing to take the risk of money wasting the parts in a soldering massacre.
Although I am thinking what I could do is mount one side of the board with the parts and tact them in with solder paste and then place into a conventional oven.
Maybe release a through hole version for the noobs.
Also maybe through in an "On' indicator LED.
I'd like to see that. :)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/1zvbo1i.jpg)
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. . .
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would it be possible to add some sort of feedback to adjust the duty cycle as the battery voltage goes down. i'll be watching this with interest it looks a really cool project.
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It's kind of tricky to do that with a 555 timer since that's an analog circuit. You'd have to set up a network of components to adjust the charge and discharge rates of the capacitor based on battery voltage. I wouldn't know where to start with something like that. When things start getting out of hand with analog circuits it's usually easiest to simplify by going digital. Then it's only a matter of coding a task rather than ending up with an unruly network of analog components. That's pretty much the reason micro-controllers were invented in the first place.
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thanks, looks like i'll have to bite the bullet and start learning to program the arduino.
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It's actually pretty easy to do a PWM driven mod with Arduino or any other MCU. Most have a peripheral PWM module that only takes a few lines of code to control.
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the less code for me to do the better lol. sorry for the thread hijack but do you have any tips for learning programming micro controllers.
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I bought my last run through seeedstudio.com and have been pleased with the boards
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the less code for me to do the better lol. sorry for the thread hijack but do you have any tips for learning programming micro controllers.
You could get some practice by looking into C programming.
Use the book C for dummies.
For Arduino I started with the book
Beginning Arduino by Micheal McRoberts
Start a thread about it though.
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Yes Arduino is pretty much the defacto starting point these days. Though you probably would not want to limit yourself to that platform. A lot of people do start on Arduino and stick with it for the duration. You can do that if you want, but you don't have to.
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I'll second arduino. It's easy so long as you have some basic C. Understanding programming helps a bit too ;).
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I started with Picaxe and then went to Atmel ATtiny micro's using assembly language programming, as its very similar to Picaxe Basic. I could never wrap my head around C, I did try... Picaxe is a gentle introduction to micro's. They will do pwm and sample voltages, but they have speed limitations, which may or may not be an issue. I found Picaxe very easy to get going with despite zero previous experience.
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I use assembly a lot also. I've learned C and have used it, but the only time I program is when doing electronics projects with MCUs. Every time I go to use C I have to learn it all over again. With assembly all you need is the MCU's instruction set and you're ready to go. Problem with assembly is it's not very efficient in terms of writing code, takes a lot of lines to do anything. C is good because it's compact and efficient, but it's pretty cryptic IMO and definitely something that doesn't stick in your memory.
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(http://i.imgur.com/BnpZZsl.png)
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That's wonderfully neat David.
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(http://i.imgur.com/GxgmfY0.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/sCTGdSk.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/eyCplfr.png)
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That is clean David
Bravo
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Where can we order these new boards with fire button?? Very nice!
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Had to redesign the previous board. Working good so far.
(http://i.imgur.com/qsYv9K0.png)
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Looking good david. Good job man
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I've been reading a lot about PWM mods after someone suggested this thread to me on ECF in regards to an alternative to the typical OKL/OKR/NAOS/MOSFET boxes. Though I'm a little confused after reading one of themodfathers threads where he says that his boards are essentially less powerful than a regular mosfet box. Is that the case with these and all PWM devices? I've ordered 3 of these and 3 of his boards and a bunch of 555 ICs but am still curious what to expect.
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Probably because it's not possible to obtain 100% duty cycle with a 555 based PWM driver. Well, it's possible, but you would need more electronics to do it making it easier to use an MCU instead of a timer. If using an MCU to generate the PWM signal, it's possible to obtain 100% duty cycle. Also as max current output is limited by the battery for a PWM regulator, you can get more power out of a converter since current is limited by the converter itself. Kind of hard to put it simply other than to say converters conserve power directly where PWM regulators conserve power indirectly by way of RMS values.
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Craig said it well. At 50% you'll be more powerful than a parallel box but at 100% less than a series unreg. The draw for me is all the adjustment in between without worry of build restrictions beyond battery safety.
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Yes PWM regulators are the most simple and efficient regulators. The down side being they are not DC. Generally not a problem for powering things like heaters and motors, but limited in applications. Another thing they can't do is put out a voltage higher than the input. However, only boost converters can do that and converters are most commonly used in a buck configuration to step down voltage same as PWM regulators. Converters can buck and boost at the same time, but those are complicated regulators typically not available in modules with high power outputs. Though high output ones are used in limited applications like the DC-DC LiPo chargers used for powered models. e-Cig controller boards can be found with fairly high outputs using buck-boost, but those are still limited in output compared to the ones that only buck.
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Thanks for the explanation! At the point of posting my last comment I had done about zero research on PWM in regards to box mods(I have quite a few raspberry pi and arduino projects) and took it as it being less powerful than a parallel mosfet box, I wasn't thinking series.
Yesterday my components came in and I got a few PWM PCBs populated as well as an OKL2-T/20 box put together and PWM is definitely ideal for me. An unregulated series box is a little bit too much for me, but with PWM - perrrfect!
For the price difference from an OKL2 board I'm surprised more DIY modders aren't using PWM yet.
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Ordered a set of the 1.4 version boards yesterday, and 2 sets of the parts (modified) to go on them.
This will be my first PWM attempt.
OKR's, OKL, Mosfet unregulated and straight unregulated have been done, as well as Vamo style chips. Still have an evolv 30 watt in the box ready to go, but THIS project sounds more like what I want.
:thumbsup:
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PWM is by far my favorite sport of regulation mechanism for box mods now. Hell it even beats unregulated and my OKL2. Personally I found themodfathers themodfathers mini PWM board easiest to assemble and use with essentially the same effect and the completely populated board with a mosfet cost me under $2 freaked_out: well worth it!
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PWM is by far my favorite sport of regulation mechanism for box mods now. Hell it even beats unregulated and my OKL2. Personally I found themodfathers themodfathers mini PWM board easiest to assemble and use with essentially the same effect and the completely populated board with a mosfet cost me under $2 freaked_out: well worth it!
Those look interesting, and I may possibly get a set later. Just not enough information for me at the moment. I'm the kind that likes to see a full wiring diagram that I can print out and view as needed. This DualParraMos is going to be bad enough without that.. LOL
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(http://i.imgur.com/Cu0H6xE.png)
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Those look interesting, and I may possibly get a set later. Just not enough information for me at the moment. I'm the kind that likes to see a full wiring diagram that I can print out and view as needed. This DualParraMos is going to be bad enough without that.. LOL
I hear ya! Here's a diagram I made for myself(a bit crude, I made it in my phone but it works). Its actually the same as a regular mosfet build except where you'd normally take power from the battery to the switch then the switch to the mosfet, you use the output of the board. Other than that you just have to solder one diode in each direction to the outside legs of the pot and connect them together to the "dio" hole. The muddle pot leg goes to "wiper" and pwr and gnd are self explanatory. For the price its pretty much unbeatable. Though I do like the all in one boards, I'm just not great with SMD components so soldering 3 SMD and the rest through hole for the same end result is good with me!
Sadly I got my first OKL chips in the same order as my PWM components and sadly, what would have been my favorite box a month ago gets essentially no use now :p
Oh well, someone else will enjoy it!
Good luck on your PWM adventures!
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You've been busy David. Go ahead and send me one.
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Received 3 each V1.4 boards. Did one up the other day and it seemed simple. Then I learned how bad my soldering job was when the thing smoked... It's now a full 7.4 volt board instead of adjustable..
So now I've spent some money on a better soldering system, Hot air!! Will attempt another board after it comes in!
Oh, yea, love the pre-made board I got from you David! Works like a charm!!
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Ok, I'm doing something wrong here. Three boards - ver 1.4, three sets of parts. None working.
1st board done using my old soldering iron. Yea, not the greatest. Got it all going, turned the board down, hit the switch and something fried. smoke came off the board.
2nd attempt. Got a new hot air system, low temp solder and off I went. Wasn't paying attention to the temp of the hot air, used it at 300.. The board looked great when done though! Hooked up my tank for a test, fired it and flames flew from my atty.. Board never fired again. Think I over-cooked some of the chips with the heat so high. Maybe...
3rd attempt. Temp turned down to 200, double checked all the chips visually, checked to make sure what I could check, power in, switch continuity, and wiring to the 510 all are at what they should be and.. Nothing..
So, am I missing a critical step here? A secret code? Or do I just need to take another class for soldering life skills? raged:
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In my expierence when the board didnt fire, one I resoldered the 15k res. And she worked and the second was the diodes. I didn't realize they had any markings on them and just plopped them in. Check under a magnifying glass. Be sure that if the diode in a vertical position has its arrow pointing down that the horizontal one is pointing to the left, and the opposite if it is pointing up. That also worked for me when my board was uncontrollable(more than likely why your Atty shot flames, it was probably running at max voltage).
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Oh snap, after actually looking at the picture I took I think what I was seeing as arrows or polarity indicators were actually the number 4 lol
So disregard what I said about the arrows, but still just pull one of the diodes off with tweezers and flip it around and solder it back on. Did the trick for me
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Oh snap, after actually looking at the picture I took I think what I was seeing as arrows or polarity indicators were actually the number 4 lol
So disregard what I said about the arrows, but still just pull one of the diodes off with tweezers and flip it around and solder it back on. Did the trick for me
There are lines to indicate polarity.. So you were partially correct! On my 1st attempted board, I did have one of the diodes reversed, but my old soldering iron actually caused a circuit line to be lifted. Dead board now
On my 2nd and 3rd, my problem was I had the 555 turn the wrong way.. DOH!!!! So, good news they both were brought to life!! :) Bad news, my 3rd board, I tried to take the on/off switch back off, forgot I still had it connected to the battery.. DOH!! Dead board that auto fires now LOL :wallbash:
At least I do have 1 of the 3 working, know where my mistakes were and feel confident I can do the next batch without problems.!! :thumbsup:
Already have my plans to make a few more of these in motion!!
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The marking on the components can be hard for the naked eye to see at times. Make sure you have proper lighting and use a magnifier. For soldering, if doing it by hand I have the Hakko FX888D set to 640F using the stock chisel tip and use mg chemicals flux and kester solder. If using hot air station I have it set to 240-250C, use the second to smallest air nozzle, and use mg chemicals leaded solder paste.
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Normally I'm not the type to put someone on blast but this kind of pissed me off, mostly because the profit he's trying to make with giving no credit where its due-
http://m.ebay.com/itm/201416562020
Im sure he will probably change it since he's since added the little bit about it not being his board, but before he gave credit to no one but himself and his excuse - "its not like every one knoes (sic) who david is" with that logic I can sell the iPhone as a monkeyPhone because I don't know who designed it -_- I hate people sometimes. Especially when they ruin the concept of open source for everyone.
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Lol
Thats biznuss Monkey even though my processor is intel and my sound card is turtle beach and other components etc..
Ya that just plain buy sell do again
you dont give credit to the enclosure manufact or the resistors 555 etc etc.
He bought it he can do what he will free enterprise..
If he posted on the forums as being his mental origin mod then lets lynch em rfol but ya IMO David has no dog in that fight esp should something go wrong open source or not..
But David I think also got the 555 from someone else he was just kind enough to map route and publish for us..
There's quite a few making pcb's for the 555 mod.. Theres also a whole blog of guys on fb making them and selling them as their own not divulging creation person.. Check out Box modders on fb..
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Ehh. If you truly feel that way I'd have to guess you probably don't make anything of value and give it away for free. Or perhaps im just a man of principles, who knows. However, if you look at a listing by anyone who knows how to sell something, you'll notice people do list the enclosure brand, mosfet brand/part number, chip manufacturer/model, etc because people want to know these things and they are what the box is based around. People know a hammond box is a hammond box, its visible on both parts of the enclosure, almost every 20A box is labled as a Raptor or OKL, brands that use DNA boards sell them as DNA mods and so on.
Think of it from the position of the person who put their time into that design. They aren't a paid worker from vishay or another company where they are compensated for their design, they do it out of good will to help the community. To capitalize on that and give no credit to who essentially did what he more than likely just can't is rude. Especially if you're trying to make $70 profit off it. Most people would be a bit discouraged from releasing their designs for free to the public when they could just keep the design to themselves, sell the boxes and make the $70 profit. I know I would and if you browse the forums you'll see that is the case with a ton of people who either design PCBs or 3D printed parts and previously used shapeways.
Not to mention no one has paid for the design, I'm pretty sure you're using it under some creative licensing, the board belongs to you, not the design. There is a difference. There is a reason I can't make t-shirts and sell them with someone's artwork that doesn't belong to me, even if I buy a copy of the artwork on amazon or the image is on google.
Once this kind of thing keeps happening, then you'll see the value in a simple knod to the well deserving people once you're stuck learning to use Eagle or back to stretching jumper wire from hole to hole when the next type of mod has no free PCBs available, haha
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Do you know the genesis atomizer?
That was designed open source by Raidy he had a coop on all the parts needed to make the atomizer. Along comes zen and he releases it and people buy it by the millions as his creation knowing nothing about Raidy.
Now that was an intellectual jack but Raidys was fine with it.. That guy postd to ebay with a pwm mod, he made the mod, warranties (if any) the mod, not David. David basically just took steps out for many people its not very difficult to make this board, its uber simplistic once you learn a cad program, heck on some programs the computer almost maps it out for ya you only have to move around a few parts.
David is not the 555 circuit for ecig originator so I have no idea what your rant is about. Yes it awesome that he shared with us this board but as I said there quite a few who make the board and share it, you can buy their boards sell them do whatever you want with them. If David wants to copyright/trademark his board he would/does watermark it..
I think its naive of you to think that because its free source someone cannot capitalize on it..
Craighb made the 510 connector that fatdaddy, varitube, everyone uses today; do you see any mention of him anywhere? He was more than happy to share design etc and help out fellow modders building for their self or selling the best product they can, to help get people off smokies is the goal for many if you can turn a dollar out of it woot for you..
You can read about the 510 we use today birth right here on this forum.
I do understand what your saying but it seems, 'to them the acknowledgement is not necessary' we know who's who and can offer to tell people when they post about it or in public say ohh this mod is great, I do it all the time.. Mamu grew huge because of that word of mouth, Break would have been absolutely monstrous in the ecig industry.. Many people have used his/mamu designs for profit, the guy that did the oem evercool mod etc. So many people gave for this industry many awesome designs. You have no idea who actually made the very 1st ecig but I do.. :laughing2: :thumbsup:
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Oh goody, ecig trivia! Herbert Gilbert, 1963, made the first smokeless tobacco cigarette for his brother, cousin, friend, patient or someone close to him to get them off cigarettes :applaude:
Somehow I feel as though you've got a leg in this race... Like you're trying to justify your own actions. Though the thing you failed to mention in both cases is their willingness for their designs to be adapted and used. I guess now I should reference people who want to be mentioned? Such as baps, who much more recently than the 510 or geni tank was trying to decide how to go about posting his new 3D printed mod on shapeways to keep this exact thing from happening to what he put his time into. Or one of the other people who use what you call the 555 circuit for ecigs(really its just one of a few circuits based on the 555 timer, it's initial use had absolutely nothing to do with ecigs at all. Check out monostable 555 schematics for future trivia :p) TheModFather, who kindly asks in his post to at least give him credit for his boards and to leave his logo intact. Im sure we can go back and forth with people who made something with the intent of people freely capitalizing on it, and people who don't mind their work being sold with no personal gain to themselves however would appreciate the little respect needed to mention who did most of the work for you, you know, like a person with some decency. Keeping with your whole "he didn't make the " ecig 555 circuit"" thing, look at most any wiring diagram now. What do you notice? The designers name somewhere that you can't remove it? Or a constant watermark across the entire image. Now why would they do this? Rather than dancing around with silly semi relevant facts, I'd enjoy your perspective on this. Because how I see it, though Mamu, relayed, david4500, thunderhead, and so on, did not design how to wire the OKL or TO-220 mosfets(obviously because they didn't make them -_-) their work is the diagram itself, which clearly they don't want being saved and reposted as someone else's because they made it, they put their time into, even if only an hour or two. But what you're saying is the people who used to crop out the persons name on their diagrams and repost them with no credit to who actually made it did nothing morally wrong? Well clearly the people makong the diagrams now putting their names in an unremovable spot didnt think so. The fact that you do is a bit troubling and well, as you put, naive. As is most of your argument to be honest, and I would assume the same goes for your understanding of PCB design. I have to wonder where your circuit boards are located? Since they're so easy to make surely you've got a bunch under your belt that you don't mind me taking, populating and selling as my own. A link to your osh park profile would be nice, I'm always looking for new business ventures :D
Realistically like I said I think this is just a matter of principle. I'm the kind of person who appreciates what people do and don't think anything is owed to me and am grateful for what a select few have done for the vape community and for that feel they deserve recognition when I'm biting off their design or completely using something they've sunk their time and skills into. You, clearly do not feel the same. I'm sure that's not our only difference. No harm in that!
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Hold on there grasshopper..
I have not sold a single ecig, have no time for that.
What has happened to me personally:
I owned a music studio for ten years and had music created in front of me as musicians get a vibe in the studio atmosphere and flow.
3 #1 hits stolen, published, and climbing the charts to number 1 a month to a few months after they were created in my studio.
One track I personally programmed the drums, two producers had made that custom drumset that took them many days/months to create so as soon as I heard it reproduced I knew it was my pattern and their drumsets that noone but us had at that time..
3 #1 hits in less than a few month stolen by proxy of bugs in my studio..
These were not open source lol
There's a huge difference, I know how it feels for intellectual property to be stolen, oh yes..
Later in many days a free source music production site opens up called beatlab I loaded loads of custom sounds as did many other producers.. They were recorded sounds from nature, edits of samples, and really unique things that make sound. Free source -- are they used in music today oh yes, frequently. I could list a slew of songs with my custom sounds in them but they were free open source and I smile every time I hear them..
Back when I started my studio many couldn't afford or work the gear that I had so I was way ahead of the game in digital music and sound. I opted out of the industry to pursue other interests but still gave to it and have over 20 #1 hit that hail from musicians/artist out my studio, one just announced he's running for president :laughing2:..
I give credit to all I can if I remember to, I usually do not forget but thats me..
Its fair as can be, its free source, now say with me free source...
If a builder tells ya who his internals are from then he may lose his biznuss to them IDK their mindstate but ya makes sense to me..
Like it or not its free and your free to not like the non disclosure because you know who's who..
David does have a board thats his creation, thats his fet boards those are his intellectual property for the most part noone else has e cig fet boards out there that I know of and those if you look have his watermark..
The guy selling on ebay says hey I have a pwm mod for sale do you want a pwm mod if so press buy. Simple..
It looks like crap IMO, his wire routing is unattractive lol.. Idk if david would want his name mentioned in that mod at all. lol
Mentioning Bap -- Bap wanted to profit off his teeny tiny 2 18650 awesome mod, totally different scenario. Evolv now gives you a print similar to his mod for free for the DNA200 just download the file send it to 3d printer sell it or use it for free no need to say hey this is Baps or who ever, you bought it, its yours.. They don't care if you sell many putting your name on it etc or just the one for yourself..
Naive about free source well maybe now your not :laughing2:
I was bored and and posted on your rant basically because I always say who the creator of something is on these forums etc so we get traffic and posts going. Do I care? No; but I do care to enlighten a person to who's who people like to know trivia as you said and look it up thus traffic and posters chatting, maybe building a mod.. I think I brought you here from ecf not sure but ya see how it works lol..
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Normally I'm not the type to put someone on blast but this kind of pissed me off, mostly because the profit he's trying to make with giving no credit where its due-
http://m.ebay.com/itm/201416562020
Im sure he will probably change it since he's since added the little bit about it not being his board, but before he gave credit to no one but himself and his excuse - "its not like every one knoes (sic) who david is" with that logic I can sell the iPhone as a monkeyPhone because I don't know who designed it -_- I hate people sometimes. Especially when they ruin the concept of open source for everyone.
No issues. I message with Frank on Facebook.
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No issues. I message with Frank on Facebook.
Tell em bad potato lol Your mods to dang clean for a bad potato :laughing2:
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(http://i.imgur.com/7leICvD.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/JcQVivf.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/OaQ3tRV.png)
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Excellent David :rockin smiley: Very precisely laid out. Smart template too :applaude:
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Your boards (and mods) are always beautifully laid out.
It's easy to tell that a lot of thought goes in to them.
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Thats clean
Uber niiice neat modding there
If was in a shop sold in extreme vape section :laughing2: ;bow;
Those mosfets looks so pro. Their packaging looks futurista modernista..
:thumbsup:
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Thanks fellas
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All the links for your boards seem to have been 404'd on OSH Park David! :(
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The projects I had on Oshpark are no longer shared. My apologies.
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The projects I had on Oshpark are no longer shared. My apologies.
freaked_out:
Damn glad I still had some in my cart.. ;)
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Are these still available anywhere? I'd love to get one! All the links are broken though.
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What about this project?
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What about this project?
David does have another board out. The PWMPCB052916 https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/pBB3aSMX
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Since I still have a few of the 1.4 boards around, I decided to do something. Attached.
CMOS chip instead of the 555. Using a 3.7 lipo, a standard USB charging board, and too much wire ;)
It works. Don't think I'll try it again, unless the change I make next to it does better. Just not enough power. Might be good for my wife who really likes 2.9 to 3.2 volts for her vapes, but really not good for doing a MTL hit that has a full feel to it. LOL
I'll try a 7.4 battery in it this weekend, remove the USB charger and see how that goes.
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Thanks for sharing your build SDaddy. :beer-toast:
At least your wife will be happy with it.
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Since I still have a few of the 1.4 boards around, I decided to do something. Attached.
CMOS chip instead of the 555. Using a 3.7 lipo, a standard USB charging board, and too much wire ;)
It works. Don't think I'll try it again, unless the change I make next to it does better. Just not enough power. Might be good for my wife who really likes 2.9 to 3.2 volts for her vapes, but really not good for doing a MTL hit that has a full feel to it. LOL
I'll try a 7.4 battery in it this weekend, remove the USB charger and see how that goes.
The choice of the MOSFET used can make a real difference but can also affect how well the PWM works with it. For vaping limiting to the mfg & footprint I actually prefer to use the PSMN0R* parts like the PSM0R9-25YLC since they have about 40% less resistance when on. Another trick you can use is adding a voltage booster to power the PWM ... which then drives the MOSFET Gate to a higher voltage and lower the resistance.
That particular design is really intended for use with 18650's and series builds, a few 10th's of a volt can make a big difference on how it works.
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Thanks for sharing your build SDaddy. :beer-toast:
At least your wife will be happy with it.
I'm just trying to stay out of trouble!! It isn't working but the wife is happy... ;)
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The choice of the MOSFET used can make a real difference but can also affect how well the PWM works with it. For vaping limiting to the mfg & footprint I actually prefer to use the PSMN0R* parts like the PSM0R9-25YLC since they have about 40% less resistance when on. Another trick you can use is adding a voltage booster to power the PWM ... which then drives the MOSFET Gate to a higher voltage and lower the resistance.
That particular design is really intended for use with 18650's and series builds, a few 10th's of a volt can make a big difference on how it works.
It was done more for the Sh!t5 and Giggles, because someone keeps saying something to the notion if you use a cmos, you'll be the only one and you need to take a picture of it... and to see if it would work. It does LOL
I can't retain "fresh" information much these days, and as I have turned to lipo batteries that will never be marked as a "tobacco product" ( Doh: ), gotta use what I got.
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It was done more for the Sh!t5 and Giggles, because someone keeps saying something to the notion if you use a cmos, you'll be the only one and you need to take a picture of it... and to see if it would work. It does LOL
I can't retain "fresh" information much these days, and as I have turned to lipo batteries that will never be marked as a "tobacco product" ( Doh: ), gotta use what I got.
Actually, I had figured that from your earlier post ... was replying mostly to help educate anyone else that might be reading it.
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Hey fellas! Glad to see some activity around here, I've been lurking the whole time... hoping some new posts would pop up. People making there own mods is slowing down at the moment? Everyone happy with the stuff from China? Not sure what been going on... but I've been working on plenty of projects the whole time.
Newest personal PWM board design:
(http://i.imgur.com/byAuWo9.png)
Mounts for screws/standoffs for M2.5, clicky tact fire switch (there is a secondary 6.2x6.2mm footprint underneath there if wanting to use a tact like the DNA and SX boards use, LED when firing, 4 position rotary switch for frequency selection (selects different value capacitors), MIC1557 timer, 5v LDO to power a 50K digipot, tact up/downs, 12v boost board from Pololu for nfet gate drive when slide switch is turned on, when switched to off the 12v boost board gets powered by USB and goes to a 2S charging IC.
https://www.pololu.com/product/2117
First 4 layer board designed. Hoping everything works as planned, have components and boards on order from Oshpark. Excited to get one assembled and tested.
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Ya David China upped their game huge and now even DNA 200's are inexpensive.
Most were drawn to mod for a more powerful vape and now its common to have over 50watts dependable even in a little cheap mod; it costing 16 bucks is 50 watts now..
Pbusrado has given thumbs up to a whole host of mods operating as advertised..
I still love to build myself and are on fb smart pwm page among many other modding pages and none of those pages have new post since dec-jan 16'.. Smart pwm is very active everyone is loving the board and Mark just keeps making it better..
It was awesome to have the most powerful mods in the beginning of vaping mods but now yep cheap and accessible for everyone..
I've yet to buy a consumer mod but --- those new mini mods are so freakin cute and ~75watts w TC lol..
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(http://i.imgur.com/RURoPio.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/JXM3mbo.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/Ljv2tky.png)
Really enjoying the digipot & 2S USB charging
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(http://i.imgur.com/RURoPio.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/JXM3mbo.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/Ljv2tky.png)
Really enjoying the digipot & 2S USB charging
I bet you are!
Have you heard of the BQ29209? I don't really trust on board charging, I much rather use my actual balancing charger or swap batteries with 18650 mods, but someone testing one of my boards mentioned it to me
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I'm using an MCP73213. It doesn't balance, so the IC you mentioned (thanks) might be nice to pair with it.
I haven't had any issue with the charging circuit (so far). I'll vape for a while when I get home from work, plug into USB at the end of the night and have been checking the batteries with a multimeter in the morning. They are both at 4.19v.
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Just the 2S charge board
(http://i.imgur.com/0agE0Zx.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/elIZkqF.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/q3FF2ix.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/YpjPJBf.png)
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Yes! Just what I need!! :yes"
Just the 2S charge board
(http://i.imgur.com/0agE0Zx.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/elIZkqF.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/q3FF2ix.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/YpjPJBf.png)
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I posted some more info on it on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenPV/comments/4yy4pp/2s_usb_charge_board/
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David I read your reddit and went over the chips datasheet
There's literally 100's of chips/samples on Ti that will do so much more in same/similar package.
Temp/charge monitoring, balance, and charge at ~2A+, 2s-6s, etc etc.
Not to be quaint but ya could have just used a usb port and a 8.4v wall wart charger but what fun would that be..
Too lazy now, but ya I had a chip that was awesome lined up, but no, did not care to do since I like the perhaps "safer" can I charge in with parallel chips at 1.2A..
That is sweetness tho nice work...
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Suits my needs pretty well at the moment. Can plug into my computer or phone charger and like magic, it's charged in the morning.
I'm not the brightest bulb and TI's data sheet usually make my head spin. Some of the other smarter PCB guys will probably come up with something more capable soon.
What IC were you planning on using?
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I love Ti's datasheets lol
They are what I started to learn from so I guess that's why lol.
I dun remember but it was sweetness with computer monitoring, 2s-6s chip, adjustable up to 6A
it was relatively common on search..
Mine was not for box internal but for a stand alone unit..
But they do have numerous cell phone/notebooks chips that are amazing and up to 2A+ charge
Very cheap too..
http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/power-management/battery-charger-ic-overview.page?keyMatch=charger&tisearch=Search-EN-Everything
http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/power-management/battery-charger-ic-products.page#p1152=1;1&p338=Li-Ion/Li-Polymer&p1153max=1;2.5&p1686=Switching Charger
http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/power-management/battery-charger-ic-products.page#p1341=SMBus
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(http://i.imgur.com/vu9yx54.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/zW6Hn3g.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/eYOIM3w.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/sgJDkis.png)
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(http://i.imgur.com/tcrnrDC.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/BDNSFiR.png)
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(http://i.imgur.com/sgJDkis.png) freaked_out: freaked_out: freaked_out:
Wow thats beautiful David
What's going on with R1 tho?
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I didn't do everything correct when designing the board. Had to omit components and bridge pads with wire or zero ohm jumpers to get it functional. Haven't had the time to revise the schematic & pcb design.
R1 is an omitted pullup for the N1 nfet, a zero ohm jumper connects the source and drain instead.
Similar tings going on on the back of board as well.
(http://i.imgur.com/dp7613W.png)
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my 555 timers have a line across the top no indent or little circle in the corner. what direction do i place my 555 on a pcb?
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my 555 timers have a line across the top no indent or little circle in the corner. what direction do i place my 555 on a pcb?
What's the part number and manufacturer? You will need to lookup the Datasheet for the pin configuration.