Breaktru Forum

eCigarette Forum => Modding => Topic started by: Breaktru on November 15, 2011, 05:16:50 PM

Title: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on November 15, 2011, 05:16:50 PM
.44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
The Plus is same circuit as the .44 mini booster but with an 18350 battery rather than the 14500.
Also can take a AW ICR 123/16340 Protected 750mah 3.7v battery.
I used the 04050CAS because the mount studs are much shorter but requires much effort to solder too. A real P.I.A.  :wallbash:
The box is the same height and width but deeper. Some modding required to house the battery.

Voltage range is 3.79v to 6.2v. Nice vape from this 1200mah battery

**I am happy to share info with all that drop by this forum. So dropping a mention when you post your mod elsewhere would be a decent gesture.
Show your support by signing up as a member and please participate by posting**

The left hand box in the photo of side by side boxes is the .44 Plus (18350) and the right is the .44 (14500)

(http://breaktru.com/ecig/44plus_1.jpg)(http://breaktru.com/ecig/44plus_2.jpg)(http://breaktru.com/ecig/44plus_3.jpg)
(http://breaktru.com/ecig/44plus_4.jpg)(http://breaktru.com/ecig/44plus_5.jpg)(http://breaktru.com/ecig/44plus_6.jpg)
(http://breaktru.com/ecig/44plus_7.jpg)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
New Addition:

.44++ (Plus Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Same as above but will hold an AW IMR 18490 - 1100mah or AW IC 18500 - 1500mah.

Some modding required to house the battery. I was able to fully recess the battery connector.

Voltage range is 3.99v to 6.1v. Even better results than the 18350.

(http://breaktru.com/ecig/44plus_18500_1.jpg) (http://breaktru.com/ecig/44plus_18500_2.jpg)
(http://breaktru.com/ecig/44plus_18500_3.jpg) (http://breaktru.com/ecig/44plus_18500_4.jpg)

Schematic and parts (http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,215.0.html)
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: raceengine on November 16, 2011, 10:57:05 AM
 :drooling: great work breaktru! how did you achieve 3.79-6.2v?
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: NewMod on November 17, 2011, 06:43:25 AM
That is a beauty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :drooling: wow
Question: Where the control is for setting the voltage up and down, is it possible to put 2 tactile switches in instead of the screw switch? and if yes, how do we wire it

Thanks..........awsome PV man wow  :applaude:
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Scottinboca on November 17, 2011, 12:09:55 PM
Man, oh man!!! Nice!  :begging:
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on November 18, 2011, 04:21:36 PM
I have another one coming soon.
Same box but w/ an AW IMR 18490/18500, 1100mah.
This should hit the spot.  :yes"

(http://www.oveready.com/images/uploads/18500-RD.jpg)
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: vaperkarma on November 18, 2011, 06:13:27 PM
The .44 plus sounds really nice with the 18350 and your next one with a 18490/18500 will definitely be a winner.
I'm sure it will be a tight squeeze for the parts, but I know you can do it.
Good work dude. Me likes
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: abah on November 19, 2011, 01:41:38 AM
PM sent for info about 14500 boost  :drooling:
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: vapertina on November 19, 2011, 04:30:59 PM
Simply the perfect little stealth mod. Another master piece  :rockin smiley:
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: DRA on November 19, 2011, 07:49:50 PM
Love this one too.... I want one  :yes"
I'll be checking back to see how the 18490 works out   :drooling:
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: charming on November 20, 2011, 11:07:36 AM
HOOT, HOOT!  :cheer:
Wonderful work. More power to the 04050c.
Just what I need. What type of battery do you recommend?
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on November 20, 2011, 11:49:24 AM
HOOT, HOOT!  :cheer:
Wonderful work. More power to the 04050c.
Just what I need. What type of battery do you recommend?

Thanks charming,
I recommend using an AW IMR battery. The IMR's are "C" rated as 10C which means that they can provide more amperage.

To get the amps from the C rating, just multiply the capacity of the battery in mah by the C rating then divide by 1000.

The importance of C values is with discharge rate. Say your battery has a 15C discharge rating, and is a 3600mAh – do the basic maths. 3.6 amps x 15C = 54 amps. This means the battery can deliver 54 amps.

1C = 1 x Capacity

A Trustfire 2400mah is 1.5C
1.5C = 1 x 2400mah or 2.4Ah __ 2.4 amps x 1.5C = 3.6 amps
Trustfire is capable of a 3.6 amps discharge rate

An AW IMR 600mah is 10C
10C = 1 x 600mah or 0.600Ah __ 0.600 x 10C = 6 amps
IMR is capable of a 6 amp discharge rate
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Haileah on November 21, 2011, 05:08:23 PM
How about some photos of the new 18490 mod?  :drooling:
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on November 21, 2011, 05:11:35 PM
How about some photos of the new 18490 mod?  :drooling:

Waiting for the battery
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: herbsman05 on November 24, 2011, 03:07:12 PM
:drooling: great work breaktru! how did you achieve 3.79-6.2v?

same question sir, how did you achieve the wide voltage range? is it just a change of resistors?
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on December 16, 2011, 02:58:54 PM
New Addition:

.44++ (Plus Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Same as above but will hold an AW 18490 - 1100mah or AW IC 18500 - 1500mah.

Some modding required to house the battery. I was able to fully recess the battery connector.

Voltage range is 3.99v to 6.1v. Even better results than the 18350.

(http://breaktru.com/ecig/44plus_18500_1.jpg) (http://breaktru.com/ecig/44plus_18500_2.jpg)
(http://breaktru.com/ecig/44plus_18500_3.jpg) (http://breaktru.com/ecig/44plus_18500_4.jpg)
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: fsors on December 16, 2011, 10:08:11 PM
 :rockin smiley: :rockin smiley: :rockin smiley:

Lookin Great!
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: novoleen on December 17, 2011, 09:03:14 PM
Wow that's some tight package you got going in that mod.
Very nicely done break.  :applaude:
If you ever consider selling one, look me up.  :-*
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on December 19, 2011, 05:20:48 PM
:drooling: great work breaktru! how did you achieve 3.79-6.2v?

Sorry for the late reply.
See posting: http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,215.msg2061.html#msg2061 (http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,215.msg2061.html#msg2061)
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: pnguin on December 21, 2011, 01:27:14 AM
Awesome. You and Para are the Kings of cramming 10lbs of stuff in 5lb box.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: novoleen on February 04, 2012, 06:58:36 PM
Can I use a 16340 in place of the 18350 battery. I was wondering if it would fit.  :Thinking:
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on February 04, 2012, 07:06:11 PM
Can I use a 16340 in place of the 18350 battery. I was wondering if it would fit.  :Thinking:

Yes novo, I use the AW IC 16340/ICR123 - 3.7v. It works fine for the boost mod but at 700mah it doesn't last so long.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Brian9523 on February 05, 2012, 12:58:54 PM
I have used the AW IC 16340's in place of the 18350. very close in length. Yes 700 mah don't last as long but it's a very good battery and performs well.
Ultrafire makes an 880mah, but I would avoid them for boost mods. They don't have the ump to drive the boost.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Topper on June 20, 2012, 03:30:23 AM
Next mod I will try will be with well known here PTN04050c
Already order free samples from TI and they arrived but... instead of modul/board like in this mod, I receive only "naked" chip?
Please, could someone give me information - is it possible to order as a free sample this board http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ptn04050c.pdf or must to buy it on retail price ? 
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Dznutz on June 22, 2012, 03:22:17 AM
Next mod I will try will be with well known here PTN04050c
Already order free samples from TI and they arrived but... instead of modul/board like in this mod, I receive only "naked" chip?
Please, could someone give me information - is it possible to order as a free sample this board http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ptn04050c.pdf or must to buy it on retail price ?



What do you mean by naked?
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Topper on June 22, 2012, 04:46:37 AM
I mean only chip, unsoldered w/o any board and elements around it :)
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: octoman on June 22, 2012, 08:09:32 AM
Next mod I will try will be with well known here PTN04050c
Already order free samples from TI and they arrived but... instead of modul/board like in this mod, I receive only "naked" chip?
Please, could someone give me information - is it possible to order as a free sample this board http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ptn04050c.pdf or must to buy it on retail price ?

How about checking out the TI.com site. They list vendors that carry the boost module.
Where did you get the chip only?
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Topper on June 22, 2012, 08:38:38 AM
From the TI.com site of course - order samples, as I mention already.
Through-Hole Module (EUU) | 4
Even package is described as Through-Hole Module (EUU) | 4 I'd received only chips.
Strange  :Thinking:
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Tripolitis on July 02, 2012, 03:03:42 PM
hi everybody.
I have a question.
When you press the on button,the battery is getting warm?
and the circuit is making a noise like zzzzzzz
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on July 02, 2012, 03:44:37 PM
hi everybody.
I have a question.
When you press the on button,the battery is getting warm?
and the circuit is making a noise like zzzzzzz

Did you build a boost mod like the one in this topic?  I am assuming you are Greek? Just checking if the translation is correct in case you are using a Greek to English translation method.
The battery should NEVER get warm. Make sure you don't have a short or shorted atty/carto.
What battery are you using? Did it work at anytime and the problem occurred afterward or was the problem from the start.

When you say on button, do you mean the button to fire the atty or an on/off switch.
A buzzing sound from the boost module usually indicates that it is not getting enough power from the battery due to an under rated battery like a 14500 Ultrafire, a cheap knock-off battery or a circuit wiring problem.

Post more details so we can perhaps provide more help.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Tripolitis on July 02, 2012, 03:53:11 PM
Thank you very much for your answer my friend
Yes i am Greek and i don't use Google translator.
Yes i made a boost like the one in the topic.But mine is ready to explode  :laughing2:
The Battery: AW black 18650
The atomizer:Iatty  1.5 ohm resistance  in another mod of mine works fine so it is not shorted
On button:the trigger for the atomizer  :yes"

i used a 22k resistor and a 4.7k resistor.the only change i have made is that i used 2 of this http://www.alifragis.com.gr/products_img/9305002.jpg
25 v 100uf.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on July 02, 2012, 04:27:35 PM
Thank you very much for your answer my friend
Yes i am Greek and i don't use Google translator.
Yes i made a boost like the one in the topic.But mine is ready to explode  :laughing2:
The Battery: AW black 18650
The atomizer:Iatty  1.5 ohm resistance  in another mod of mine works fine so it is not shorted
On button:the trigger for the atomizer  :yes"

i used a 22k resistor and a 4.7k resistor.the only change i have made is that i used 2 of this http://www.alifragis.com.gr/products_img/9305002.jpg
25 v 100uf.

Sorry for asking about the translator. I just want to make sure I understood the whole question.

Sounds like a wiring problem.
The battery is an excellent battery. Did the mod work at all or did it stop working after sometime?
Did you use the 22k resistor across Pin 3 & 4 and did you use the 4.7k in series with a 100k pot between Pin 3 and gnd? That should work fine.

Not sure of the spec's and quality of the caps. The datasheet for the 04050c says the min ESR for the output cap should not be less than 10m
To eliminate the possibility of a problem with the caps, you can remove them in the circuit and try firing up the boost with out the caps attached.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Tripolitis on July 02, 2012, 04:47:43 PM
don't say sorry my dear friend there is no problem  :beer-toast:
(http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8669/ptn04050cimagesjpgthumb.png)
this is the diagram i use.
I am testing the circuit on a breadboard.
A Wooden mod is on its way for this circuit.
resistors  22k and 4.7 k.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: CraigHB on July 02, 2012, 04:52:34 PM
and the circuit is making a noise like zzzzzzz

Converters buzz for a few reasons.  One can be due to a load that causes the converter to go in and out of CCM and DCM.  These are the two modes of operation that converters transition through when going from light load to heavy load.  A load right on the edge may cause a rapid transition back and forth which creates a buzzing noise.

Another thing that casuses converters to buzz is when they are over-loaded beyond tolerance.  The converter restarts itself repeatedly in an attempt to recover from the overload.  This is known as hiccup mode over-load protection and most converters utilize it.

If the converter is poorly tuned, it can buzz when it destabilizes.  This results in a failure to regulate output properly and the coverter buzzes as it goes from one extreme to the other.  A converter can be thrown out of tune with a load that is heavily capacitive or inductive.  In the case when external input and output capacitors are required, using parts that are out of tolerance can destablize the converter.

This wouldn't be the case for the module you are using, but a cheap inductor can buzz even under normal conditions.  Harmonics occur in the switching frequency and if it happens to be a resonant frequency in the audible range, the inductor core vibrates making a noticable noise.  It's usually more of a squeal than a buzz though.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Tripolitis on July 02, 2012, 04:58:43 PM
Thank you both for the aswers.
the led display shows 3.8 volt and it is zzzzzzzzzzzzz
and when the display shows 5.6 volt it is still zzzzzzzzzzzz  ing  :laughing:
How easy this circuit and battery can explode?
Is there the dander of exploding in my face?
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Tripolitis on July 02, 2012, 05:05:45 PM
(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/487/54696110.png)

this is a better photo of the wiring i used.
my cousin find this photo
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on July 02, 2012, 05:51:37 PM
Thank you both for the aswers.
the led display shows 3.8 volt and it is zzzzzzzzzzzzz
and when the display shows 5.6 volt it is still zzzzzzzzzzzz  ing  :laughing:
How easy this circuit and battery can explode?
Is there the dander of exploding in my face?

Thank you Craig for the expert details. Yes you are right it wasn't actually a buzz but more of a whining noise. I had that happen to me once due to a poor soldering connection. I was not able to output any voltage more than a second before the whine noise.

I would worry about the battery getting warm. Recheck your wiring and look for a possible partial bridging of solder or wire strand. Try a higher atty resistance or a different one.

The diagrams are correct if you wired your board like that. A 100k resistor across Pin 3 and 4 would give you a different voltage range.

Another note is... breadboards are notorious for creating problems due to poor connection of the inserted wire into the breadboard holes (high resistant connection or sometimes no connection)
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: arvacon on July 03, 2012, 12:07:59 PM
Hi, I am the cousin of Tripolitis, Greek too.  :)
Nice to meet you in this great forum.  ;cheers;

I have received also some samples from TI of these boosters, but I have not create the circuit yet.
I have take the four different models of the PTN04050.
Actually these are the PTN04050CAD, PTN04050CAH, PTN04050CAS and PTN04050CAZ.
Does these have any differences at their function, or their only difference is the pin or pin-less boards?
Also how about the thickness of the wires, is that specific? Can this occurs the problem that my cousin has?
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on July 03, 2012, 01:57:25 PM
Hi, I am the cousin of Tripolitis, Greek too.  :)
Nice to meet you in this great forum.  ;cheers;

I have received also some samples from TI of these boosters, but I have not create the circuit yet.
I have take the four different models of the PTN04050.
Actually these are the PTN04050CAD, PTN04050CAH, PTN04050CAS and PTN04050CAZ.
Does these have any differences at their function, or their only difference is the pin or pin-less boards?
Also how about the thickness of the wires, is that specific? Can this occurs the problem that my cousin has?

Hi Cuz, and welcome to the forum discussion.
Two are through hole mounts and two are surface mounts. They are electrically identical.
For output and input I would use NO LESS than 22 gauge wire. 18 gauge would be best if you have the space to install it. Keep wiring as short as possible. Too small a wire gauge for the input can cause problems as the amperage for boost circuits are higher on input than output and that's also why you need a battery that can deliver sufficient amperage such as the AW batteries.
The adjust portion of the circuit (pin 3 to gnd) is light gauge.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Coolzero on July 03, 2012, 07:22:29 PM
Hi
I have been readin ecf for some time now and while back i followed your .44 mod thread in here Breaktru. I have done few ptn04050 mods now and figured out easier way to solder wires and resistors and whatnots to chip, i really had hard time trying to get everything nicely soldered to "legs" so i just heated more and they fell off and then just heat bit more on that mount and use ..well i have no idea what that device is called(solder sucker?) but you suck tin out of joint with it .. and you have holes in your chip with much more easier soldering and it takes less space. Just wanted to share this since i noticed on your pictures that you where using those legs.
Here's couple i made http://coolzero.awiki.org/en/?page_id=1066 (http://coolzero.awiki.org/en/?page_id=1066)

Edit. Just noticed previous post with "Two are through hole mounts and two are surface mounts. They are electrically identical." part, i had to check and i have used caz,cad and cas and they all have holes under that tin :)

Again just wanted to thank for this great mod for us to learn  :thankyou:

  ;bow;
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on July 03, 2012, 07:57:27 PM
Hi
I have been readin ecf for some time now and while back i followed your .44 mod thread in here Breaktru. I have done few ptn04050 mods now and figured out easier way to solder wires and resistors and whatnots to chip, i really had hard time trying to get everything nicely soldered to "legs" so i just heated more and they fell off and then just heat bit more on that mount and use ..well i have no idea what that device is called(solder sucker?) but you suck tin out of joint with it .. and you have holes in your chip with much more easier soldering and it takes less space. Just wanted to share this since i noticed on your pictures that you where using those legs.
Here's couple i made http://coolzero.awiki.org/en/?page_id=1066 (http://coolzero.awiki.org/en/?page_id=1066)

Edit. Just noticed previous post with "Two are through hole mounts and two are surface mounts. They are electrically identical." part, i had to check and i have used caz,cad and cas and they all have holes under that tin.

Again just wanted to thank for this great mod for us to learn

  ;bow;

Great Coolzero, glad my posting helped.

Solder Flux is very helpful when soldering to the legs of the module. It would take less heat if the flux was on the wire and pin and you tinned them first. The surface mount pins fall off very easy, When I use the surface mount I tack solder to the top of the board and not the bottom pin.

Nice going with your wire through the hole. Just be careful with excessive heat as not to damage the module.
Luv the photos of your mod build. Great stuff. Congrats  :beer-toast:
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: arvacon on July 04, 2012, 02:27:31 AM
Hi Cuz, and welcome to the forum discussion.

Thanks pal.
I have a small question.. What was the diode used for and why do we need to remove it?
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Coolzero on July 04, 2012, 06:13:47 AM
Great Coolzero, glad my posting helped.

Solder Flux is very helpful when soldering to the legs of the module. It would take less heat if the flux was on the wire and pin and you tinned them first. The surface mount pins fall off very easy, When I use the surface mount I tack solder to the top of the board and not the bottom pin.

Nice going with your wire through the hole. Just be careful with excessive heat as not to damage the module.
Luv the photos of your mod build. Great stuff. Congrats  :beer-toast:

Thanks. When i first started doing these i had to buy soldering iron and ofc i bought cheapest wich was a mistake and i ruined couple ptr and my dna :(  Now i got bit better with adjustable power and things got a whole lot easier, havent use flux yet but i guess i need to test it too.

Oh ye the whining noise, i get that on my 2xaa batterybox  1x14500 mod with trustfire flames when battery is low. Not sure if it was mentioned/asked but i cant use dual coils with it, it works awhile on lowest setting but just starts to cut power, anyone tested this?
Battery life on single battery is not so great, about 2ml when chip starts to whine. On my dual 18650 booster i got about 12ml and on 18650 ptr i got close to 15ml wich i love to death, only 0.01v - 0.03v drop on anything i put on it until very end on battery life, thanks to Breaktru's design :) , this minibooster doesn't drop voltages either more than 0.02v - 0.03v on single coils wich is very cool.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Coolzero on July 04, 2012, 06:19:53 AM
Thanks pal.
I have a small question.. What was the diode used for and why do we need to remove it?

http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,215.msg707.html#msg707 (http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,215.msg707.html#msg707)
And couple post after that should explain
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: arvacon on July 04, 2012, 06:39:05 AM
Thanks for the link  ;)
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Jerseybob on July 04, 2012, 10:51:59 PM
this minibooster doesn't drop voltages either more than 0.02v - 0.03v on single coils wich is very cool.

Nice work Cool.......  :beer-toast:
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: silverslayer on July 21, 2012, 11:53:04 AM
Well I just finished a mini box. I used a dna because I had it. I bought the thing when they were 45.00 and before I saw Breaktrus boards that he uses. :wallbash: DNA way over priced for what it is ( I would imagine that's why they dropped the price 10 bucks). I wanted something small that I could set down without it falling or rolling off the table (V3/with ss line). So Any who the Dna paired up with my ss line is nice. Wifes not to happy with my spending habits, but hey I enjoy messing with mods.

I have one very good piece of advise for any one wanting to build a mod. DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON A CHEAP SOLDERING IRON.
I went to spark fun, and for about 40.00 more than that cheap walmart POS I bought their adjustable temp iron. Using it made me feel like a pro. With a decent iron I feel any one can build a mod. The only limitation is your imagination and pocket book.

I'd like to thank BreakTru for a great site and his fantastic Ideas. I like your site.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: yogi on July 21, 2012, 03:51:40 PM
Nice SS, congrats on the build.
Once you get 3 posts under your belt I'd like to see you post your photos in a topic you start.
 ;cheers;
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: CraigHB on July 21, 2012, 04:03:28 PM
Yeah, it's pretty amazing what a difference a proper soldering station will make.  Those cheapo soldering pencils are garbage.  The tips are too fat and they're too hot for electronics.  The other common mistake people make is using the wrong solder, always use rosin core 63/37 or 60/40 in a fine gauge.  63/37 is better since it hardens faster, but 60/40 will work well enough.  Either way, it has to have a rosin core.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on July 21, 2012, 04:06:14 PM
Well I just finished a mini box. I used a dna because I had it. I bought the thing when they were 45.00 and before I saw Breaktrus boards that he uses. :wallbash: DNA way over priced for what it is ( I would imagine that's why they dropped the price 10 bucks). I wanted something small that I could set down without it falling or rolling off the table (V3/with ss line). So Any who the Dna paired up with my ss line is nice. Wifes not to happy with my spending habits, but hey I enjoy messing with mods.

I have one very good piece of advise for any one wanting to build a mod. DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON A CHEAP SOLDERING IRON.
I went to spark fun, and for about 40.00 more than that cheap walmart POS I bought their adjustable temp iron. Using it made me feel like a pro. With a decent iron I feel any one can build a mod. The only limitation is your imagination and pocket book.

I'd like to thank BreakTru for a great site and his fantastic Ideas. I like your site.

Congrats SilverSlayer. Nice...

Did ya get any replacement tips too? Like night and day with a decent iron/station.

Glad this forum helped out. I encourage members to post and show what they are up. Also to ask questions so others can help that may have the same questions. Or... just seeing something that may spark an interest to others.

Yogi is correct, after 3 posts a member can start their own topic and yes we would love to see it.

 :beer-toast:
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: arvacon on July 21, 2012, 04:15:55 PM
Hello friends.
I have also order that dna12 circuit and I am waiting to arrive from America to Greece.
I didn't understand so well from the above post. Does this circuit working good or not finally?
 It is expensive the truth is, but what do you think about variable voltage vs variable wattage function?
Which one has best results in vaping and why?  :Thinking:
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: silverslayer on July 21, 2012, 04:48:16 PM
Hello friends.
I have also order that dna12 circuit and I am waiting to arrive from America to Greece.
I didn't understand so well from the above post. Does this circuit working good or not finally?
 It is expensive the truth is, but what do you think about variable voltage vs variable wattage function?
Which one has best results in vaping and why?  :Thinking:

My thoughts are..... the dna is just a gimmic. What difference does it make if it's measured in volts or watts. In the end it all equals sizzle in my aty.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Topper on July 21, 2012, 04:54:28 PM
My thoughts are..... the dna is just a gimmic. What difference does it make if it's measured in volts or watts. In the end it all equals sizzle in my aty.
Not actually.
The difference is Ohms law ;) Just kitting but its true.
Advantage is friendly and lazy vaping - just find your wattage and stop hesitate bout voltage, amperage, ohms of atty and so on.
Put your preferential 8-10-12W and vape. Change carto and vape again on your sweet point. Not to remember anything else except your lovely wattage.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: silverslayer on July 21, 2012, 05:05:38 PM
Not actually.
The difference is Ohms law ;) Just kitting but its true.
Advantage is friendly and lazy vaping - just find your wattage and stop hesitate bout voltage, amperage, ohms of atty and so on.
Put your preferential 8-10-12W and vape. Change carto and vape again on your sweet point. Not to remember anything else except your lovely wattage.

Yea bout that. I don't find it too friendly that the thing cut's out all the time. It's done it ever since I bought it lol.
 
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Topper on July 21, 2012, 05:11:11 PM
So your sweetness isn't VW :)
Maybe Craigs hyper wattage monster will be ;)
Oh BTW, post pictures of your baby you can now  ;cheers;
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: CraigHB on July 21, 2012, 05:18:12 PM
I build variable voltage into my own mods.  I think Dave will agree that there is not a huge advantage present in regulating wattage.  It's kind of a handy feature I suppose, but with a Wattage readout, you can do the same thing by manually adjusting voltage.  Sort of like manual or automatic transmission in a car. 

My primary reason for preferring voltage control is that it simplifies design.  With a mod that senses current, there's not much difference in a hardware sense between voltage and wattage control.   However, in software, it's much simpler to design a voltage controlled mod since you don't have to close the loop.  That just means you don't have to adjust dynamically based on feedback from current sensing.  It also makes it much easier to handle software exceptions where the mod may be pushed beyond it's ability to provide a user output setting.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on July 21, 2012, 06:11:49 PM
Yes Craig I agree that there is not a huge advantage. It's nice but I could live without it. I have both in front of me. One VW with one flavor and one VV with another flavor. Do I notice a difference. Hell NO. So I can change atty resistance without adjusting the VW. Okay... How often do I do that. Not too often. And like with Craig said. If you have a display showing wattage. It's no big deal. If you do NOT have a wattage display then yes it would be beneficial but then again, you would have to initially find your sweet spot blindly.

Yeah it's a Fad I think too. What if there was first Varible Wattage and someone just came up with a V. Voltage? would that be the new fad.
How about you Craig putting out a Variable Amperage Mod. Bet that would be the next new Fad.  :laughing2:
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: CraigHB on July 21, 2012, 06:56:52 PM
Hmm, current control.  That's been thought of before.  I remember seeing some posts about it on ECF, talk of using a current regulator.  I haven't been hanging out at ECF lately though.  Don't know if anything ever came of that.  In practicality, it would be the same thing as voltage control, output still dependant on atomizer resistance.  Controlling voltage is generally much easier than controlling current.  You could do it, but it would be more involved and would not accomplish anything that voltage control does not already accomplish.

I know you were kidding, but it made me think about it.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: synchro on July 24, 2012, 11:47:03 AM
Nice!
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Tripolitis on July 24, 2012, 02:01:20 PM
Good afternoon from Greece my friends
Well,i have made the circuit using 100k and 4,7 k resistors but,
without the atomizer ,(1,5 ohm) the voltage is 6 volt.With the atomizer on the voltage is 4,4 volt.
Does anyone knows what i have do wrong?  :wallbash: :wallbash:
the battery is a black imr.
The good news is that there is no zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz anymore  :laughing:
and the battery is not getting warmer.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Dznutz on July 24, 2012, 02:34:28 PM
Good afternoon from Greece my friends
Well,i have made the circuit using 100k and 4,7 k resistors but,
without the atomizer ,(1,5 ohm) the voltage is 6 volt.With the atomizer on the voltage is 4,4 volt.
Does anyone knows what i have do wrong?  :wallbash: :wallbash:
the battery is a black imr.


Please someone chime in if I am wrong, it sounds to me like you used a fixed resistor on the 100k when in fact it needs to be a trimmer or potentiometer these are resistors but adjustable. With a fixed resistor you will get the top end voltage which is why you are at 6 volts.

Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on July 24, 2012, 03:44:02 PM
Good afternoon from Greece my friends
Well,i have made the circuit using 100k and 4,7 k resistors but,
without the atomizer ,(1,5 ohm) the voltage is 6 volt.With the atomizer on the voltage is 4,4 volt.
Does anyone knows what i have do wrong?  :wallbash: :wallbash:
the battery is a black imr.
The good news is that there is no zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz anymore  :laughing:
and the battery is not getting warmer.

Did you use a 100k pot/trimmer in series with a fixed 4.7k resistor from pin 3 to gnd?
And.... did you use a voltage divider resistor between Pin 3 and Pin 4? I use a 15k. If you did not put a resistor there you will not be able to go below 5v.

Does the voltage adjust or is it only able to put out 6v w/ no load?

The battery may not be able to handle a 1.5 ohm load at 6v, hence the drop to 4.4v
A good battery can handle a 1.5 ohm load at lower voltage without too much drop with the PTN04050C but high voltage can NOT be used with that load.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on July 24, 2012, 03:46:09 PM

Please someone chime in if I am wrong, it sounds to me like you used a fixed resistor on the 100k when in fact it needs to be a trimmer or potentiometer these are resistors but adjustable. With a fixed resistor you will get the top end voltage which is why you are at 6 volts.


Note:
The higher the resistance the lower the voltage. And Vice-a Verse-a
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on August 10, 2012, 01:43:39 PM
See attached photo for 9v battery box:

Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Brian9523 on August 10, 2012, 05:09:15 PM
Ahhh Haaaa..........
So that's how your cram 10 pounds in to a 2 pound bag
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: dasazo on August 21, 2012, 09:39:57 AM
I understand that with the resistor between pins 3 and 4 u can adjust how much you can go below 5 volts on output. However I do not understand how/why it works this way. There is no mention of voltage divider resistance on the datasheet of this chip.

Can anyone explain me how the chip reacts to resistance between pins 3 and 4?

Edit: and how do you calculate the range min and max voltages you can achieve with certain voltage divider resistor?
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on August 21, 2012, 10:47:53 AM
I understand that with the resistor between pins 3 and 4 u can adjust how much you can go below 5 volts on output. However I do not understand how/why it works this way. There is no mention of voltage divider resistance on the datasheet of this chip.

Can anyone explain me how the chip reacts to resistance between pins 3 and 4?

Edit: and how do you calculate the range min and max voltages you can achieve with certain voltage divider resistor?

You're not going to find this in the datasheet because the module was not designed to operate like this.
The voltage divider resistor will allow the MIN output voltage to be lower than 5v and lower the MAX voltage. It effects the entire voltage output range.
The Adjust pin to ground will give you the range. The higher the total resistance, the lower the voltage.
The 100k pot is perfect for achieving the lower voltage range with it max'ed out.
With the pot zero'ed, the fixed resistor in series will determine the high end of the voltage range.
Most likely the efficiency rating is lower w/ the voltage divider in place on Pins 3 and 4.
But........ using a single 14500, 900mah trustfire, I was able to get up to 7 1/2 hours of vape time.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: dasazo on August 21, 2012, 11:52:17 AM
You're not going to find this in the datasheet because the module was not designed to operate like this.
The voltage divider resistor will allow the MIN output voltage to be lower than 5v and lower the MAX voltage. It effects the entire voltage output range.
The Adjust pin to ground will give you the range. The higher the total resistance, the lower the voltage.
The 100k pot is perfect for achieving the lower voltage range with it max'ed out.
With the pot zero'ed, the fixed resistor in series will determine the high end of the voltage range.
Most likely the efficiency rating is lower w/ the voltage divider in place on Pins 3 and 4.
But........ using a single 14500, 900mah trustfire, I was able to get up to 7 1/2 hours of vape time.

Did you come by this accidentally or by calculations? If by calculations I would like to know how to calculate to min and max volts if I were to change resistor values.
The voltage range which your schema gives is just perfect, but I want to understand the theory behind it. :)
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on August 21, 2012, 11:59:45 AM
Did you come by this accidentally or by calculations? If by calculations I would like to know how to calculate to min and max volts if I were to change resistor values.
The voltage range which your schema gives is just perfect, but I want to understand the theory behind it. :)

Actually Nuck was the first to use a 100K resistor on 3 and 4 which I saw about 2yrs ago. So credit goes to him for his Fistpack.
I don't have a formula, just trial runs. I'm sure a formula can be devised if you have the patience.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: vaporhead on September 22, 2012, 07:50:59 PM
Actually Nuck was the first to use a 100K resistor on 3 and 4 which I saw about 2yrs ago. So credit goes to him for his Fistpack.
I don't have a formula, just trial runs. I'm sure a formula can be devised if you have the patience.

But I see that you tweaked the voltage range with a 15K, 4.7k and 100k pot which works excellent  :rockin smiley:
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: red13dotnet on March 22, 2013, 01:53:19 PM
Think I'm gonna try fitting this circuit into a pipe mod (Smoking pipe style, not copper, lol)
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: yogi on July 11, 2013, 03:44:06 PM
Think I'm gonna try fitting this circuit into a pipe mod (Smoking pipe style, not copper, lol)

Did you ever complete the pipe mod Red?  :Thinking: Would like to see it.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: micheleCIG on March 06, 2014, 07:17:09 AM
hello everybody I am italian and I have been brought here because this forum is leggendary for its users' great ideas!
and obviously from breaktru that invited me to post on here any questions.

I have one, as I am willing to use a ptc fuse (thermistore) 2.5A to prevent circuit from frying when used over 12W, could anyone explain me theoric or practical functioning or any  way to install it?

I understand the ptc starts increasing its resistance at a certain I (current in Ampere), so I guess it has to interrupt Vin from source (battery) to the module, or?

kind regards to all of you
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: dennis15 on March 06, 2014, 07:48:13 AM
hello everybody I am italian and I have been brought here because this forum is leggendary for its users' great ideas!
and obviously from breaktru that invited me to post on here any questions.

I have one, as I am willing to use a ptc fuse (thermistore) 2.5A to prevent circuit from frying when used over 12W, could anyone explain me theoric or practical functioning or any  way to install it?

I understand the ptc starts increasing its resistance at a certain I (current in Ampere), so I guess it has to interrupt Vin from source (battery) to the module, or?

kind regards to all of you

Craig has some real technical posts about PTC fuses: http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,265.msg2022.html#msg2022 (http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,265.msg2022.html#msg2022)

There are a lot on good info through out this topic: http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,723.0.html (http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,723.0.html)
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: pako75 on March 06, 2014, 11:03:01 AM
hello everybody I am italian

Anche io!!!!!!! Me too!!!!!!!  :thumbsup:

I am willing to use a ptc fuse (thermistore) 2.5A to prevent circuit from frying when used over 12W

I think 2.5A is very low rated.... you need at least 2 x 2.5A ptc fuses...

could anyone explain me theoric or practical functioning or any  way to install it?
dennis15 already answered to this... wiring is very simple..   BATTERY+ <--> PTC FUSE <--> FIRE BUTTON



Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: micheleCIG on March 06, 2014, 11:10:43 AM
nice to meet you :)

why you say 2.5A is too low?
i am using one battery only, so, if I got it right, I would only need one PTC, right?

btw did you find a good place for ptc and amps in italy or in eu? (I am talking about e-commerce shop)
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: pako75 on March 06, 2014, 12:06:12 PM
nice to meet you :)

why you say 2.5A is too low?
read this

How to choose an appropriate fuse for the converter you're working with:
A.  The first step in choosing a fuse is to read the converter's datasheet and find the max input current.  Choose a fuse with a hold current close to or equal to the converter's max input current.

If you don't know the max input current or it's not stated in the datasheet, Craig taught us a nifty equation to calculate that max input current: converter's max output power at 80% efficiency divided by min input voltage.

For example, the max output power for the DNA30 is 30W.  At 80% efficiency that's a total of 36W.  Min input voltage for the DNA30 is 3.2v.  Using Craig's equation: 36W / 3.2v = 11.25A.  The datasheet for the DNA30 states max input current is 12A - which is pretty close to the result of Craig's equation.  For the DNA30 then a 12A fuse would be appropriate.

You can choose a hold current slightly under or slightly over the max input current of the converter if you can't find a fuse that is equal to the max current and still have good protection as there is a current cushion between hold current and trip current.  What is important is that you don't want to choose a hold current that is too low else you'll get annoying inadvertent tripping when running the converter at or near max output or from normal operating internal heat (plus each time a fuse trips, the resistance takes days to return to the initial state).  For the most part, we are using fuses to protect us and the circuit from a batt fault or reverse polarity.  Either of those situations will cause a huge current dump from the batt, so no matter if the hold current is a bit high the fuse will trip rather fast.
PTN0405C -> 12W
+20% (80% efficiency) 14.4W
Min input voltage: 2.95V
Using Craig's equation: 14.4W / 2.95v = 4.88A ---> 5A PTC Fuse or 2x2.5A

i am using one battery only, so, if I got it right, I would only need one PTC, right?
One is allright, but 2 in parallel are better

C.  Next, look at the Rmin rating of the fuse.  The lower the resistance the least effect the fuse will have on the circuit - 10mOhms of resistance at 10A wastes 1W and causes an input voltage drop of 0.1v.  So... to have the least effect with adding unwanted resistance to the circuit, we parallel fuses.  Wiring 2x fuses in parallel cuts the fuse's internal resistance in half, BUT it also doubles the hold current and trip current.  If you are going to use 2 fuses in parallel, you must then look for a fuse with a hold current half the max current of the converter.  For example - if the converter's max current is 10A, you will need to choose a fuse with a 5A hold current (2x 5A = 10A).

btw did you find a good place for ptc and amps in italy or in eu? (I am talking about e-commerce shop)
I buy mostly from a phisical shop near home, but something i've bought from http://www.tme.eu/it/ (http://www.tme.eu/it/)
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on March 06, 2014, 12:26:54 PM
nice to meet you :)

why you say 2.5A is too low?
i am using one battery only, so, if I got it right, I would only need one PTC, right?

btw did you find a good place for ptc and amps in italy or in eu? (I am talking about e-commerce shop)

As per datasheet the 04050c has max output amperage of 2.4A @ 5V output voltage. We do not put fuses in the output but rather on the Input (the + leg of the battery).

In a boost circuit such as this the input amperage is higher than the output amperage.

However we are using the the 04050c hacked. The design of this module is for 5v to 15v output. We hacked it to 3.2v to 6v output.
If you look at the datasheet:
Vo = 15V is 0.8A max
Vo = 12V is 1.0A max
Vo = 9V is 1.3A max
Vo = 5v is 2.4A max

I have gone above those amperages due to the hack and with a quality 20C Li-Po battery. 4.67 amps on output. I probably can go higher.
The rating of the PTC will depend on your battery capability and how much you will be pushing the module.
I used TWO 3A PTC fuses in parallel with a single 20C Li-Po.
As discussed in the other PTC topic threads. Two parallel fuses will double the amperage and half the resistance of the fuse.
So with two 3A hold fuses, I have a rating of 6A hold fusing.

update: I was typing at the same time mamu was.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: CraigHB on March 06, 2014, 06:21:02 PM
Hopefully those guys have you covered with that excellent info.  Just wanted to say welcome to the forum micheleCIG.

Might be a bit of a translation issue there, but just to clarify, a thermistor and a PTC fuse are not the same thing.  What you want is a PTC fuse.  A thermistor is a similar device, but different in application.  Thermistors are typically used to measure temperature where PTC fuses are used to limit current.  When looking for parts in English, you want to be aware of that difference but that may not be the case in your native language.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: micheleCIG on March 07, 2014, 05:35:26 AM
thank you all guys, you have been very kind and helpfull!

Craig the problem is not the translation, but the fact I know nothing about electronics :)
I got (reading all of you) that the thermistore is a thing and a PTC is an other different thing.
By the way I still don't get Craig's equation (how is that 80% equals the 120%?

I have an other  question for you guys, the 2 ptc in parallel for 1 battery would cause any ripple current or current waste?

Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Visus on June 20, 2014, 04:00:22 AM
Added 0603 led switched on the fire button to that little hole on the bottom on my AA break4050
sealed it in with a piece of opaque silicon and clear epoxy  lense looks great.
Woot soldering 0603 things lol
Fits perfect in the hole
Added one to the evercool mod too
without the lense its hella bright

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kingbright/APT1608SGC/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsQtlBhqKq43RewQI%2fZL5kT


Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on June 20, 2014, 08:54:27 AM
Added 0603 led switched on the fire button to that little hole on the bottom on my AA break4050
sealed it in with a piece of opaque silicon and clear epoxy  lenses looks great.
Woot soldering 0603 things lol
Fits perfect in the hole
Added one to the evercool mod too
without the lenses its hella bright

Looking good  :thumbsup:
Now we know what that hole is for  :laughing:
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: CraigHB on June 20, 2014, 03:09:04 PM
Woot soldering 0603 things lol

That's about the smallest I can go comfortably.  I do the 0402 stuff because I need the density, but I don't like working with those, too small, try to avoid it.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Visus on June 20, 2014, 03:30:34 PM
I dropped one couldn't find it, was my only red too
I tinned the 30ga wire put the led on top touched the tinned wire, soldered lol
I melted the plastic case on others I has solid technique now
no other way to do it without being on a board and using a scope with an iron
Coudn't imagine trying the 0402 leds let alone resistors and caps etc
like a spec of sand lol
it blew me away how bright they are
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: Breaktru on June 20, 2014, 04:36:17 PM
They are super bright and super tiny. Nice going w/ the soldering.
I would probably inhale the 0603 Led while I was leaning over to solder it.
Title: Re: .44+ (Plus) mini Boost Box Mod Variable Voltage
Post by: CraigHB on June 20, 2014, 06:43:38 PM
The 0402 stuff is hard to handle even with a sharp set of tweezers and 10x mag.  Even with the 0603 stuff, you drop one, it's gone. 

Yeah, those small surface mount LEDs are just as bright as the through hole ones.  The light emitting part is actually really small even for the through hole LEDs.  The difference is they have a nice reflector behind the diode and a lens so they diffuse a lot better.