Tinkering with the Naos Raptor - 20A, 120W dc/dc converter...

[bamanerd]

It's alive!!! Lol

I was racking my brain trying to figure out what was going wrong. Since it was working fine (other than the pot not adjusting Vout) until I put the atty on, I decided to check the ground coming off the atty where it ties into the other grounds. It was loose. I soldered it up, and viola... everything works fine, pot and all. I will post some pics shortly. I still have to install my magnets. I just wanted to let it be known that she is in working condition. Cheers!!

[Breaktru]

I decided to check the ground coming off the atty where it ties into the other grounds. It was loose. I soldered it up, and viola... everything works fine, pot and all.

Nice troubleshooting 

[bamanerd]

Thanks man. I was so relieved when I pulled that shrink wrap back and that wire was loose. I looked over at my gf and said, "I think I found it!!" I soldered it up, flipped the master switch, and hit the fire button. The DM lit up with the correct voltage, and I squealed like a school girl (not really... or at least I hope not). Anywho....

I think it looks pretty good considering it's my first build. My cuts look like crap around the DM, and I should've just waited for a bezel to come in, but it's just a prototype. There is too much wire, and it's packed in there like sardines in a can, but it works great. I am looking for a new pot and knob, because mine looks like crap. I don't know if you can tell from the pictures, but it's just a thumbwheel pot sitting in a sloppily cut hole. All of my future builds will have the mosfet(s) for safety. I hastily ordered my parts for this build, and when I sat down to start this thing, I realized I had the wrong one. I was just ready to get this thing put together. It's just for me, and just for the learning experience.

I think my next build will be the PTR08100W that I ordered based on your suggestion, breaktru. I'm already looking at painted boxes from pedalpartsplus.com, colored knobs, and bezels. I have the majority of the parts laying around, and I'm working on a schematic. I haven't found one online, so I downloaded the datasheet, and started drawing one up. It's not finished yet, and I'll post it for you guys to look over when I think it's done, and before I start building.

Now on to the good stuff:









This monster master switch.... I've gotta find a smaller one for future builds for sure.

[Breaktru]

Congrats on your mod. Looks real cool 
Each new mod will be easier and better.
Suggestion for the next: keep heavy current wires as short as possible. Example: battery and output.

[bamanerd]

Thanks, and I will definitely keep that in mind.

[Visus]

Its beautiful Bama thats gittin er dun.

Your gonna like the 08100 evercool mod but IMO its not on the same level of smooth as a raptor.
Still leaps and bounds above 99% of industry batt mods.  Its vicious like a mack truck lol..  The raptor is like a bentley 

I was vaping an ego twist at 4.8v used it for 4 months then made an evercool and set it to 4.8v I coughed so hard whoa now thats some power were my thoughts.     Surprisingly uber powerful  these hobby mods are. 

[joshleeman]

@ bamanerd  Hell of a first build, I went with this pot based on a recommendation 531-PT10MV-200 which is kinda a pain to mount but its cool because you only need a small hole for the shaft which will make a perfect mount for any kind of dial,knob, ect that you put onto it.  I have a question about the box you used, is it plastic?  Does it have the "hammond tilt" that the alum boxes have?  Whats the part number or model name for it?  Thanks and good luck on your next one.

[mamu]

Well done, bamanerd!

If you're already planning your next project, you got bit by the bug - lol the modding bug that is.

[bamanerd]

Thanks everyone.

Hahaha Visus, this thing is smooth. I'm loving it. What I'm really loving is the battery life coming from a mech mod. I'm really thinking of putting the TI board in a 1590G. I have huge hands, so the 1590B isn't bad at all for me, but I would like something a little smaller.

Josh, Thanks man. This box is a Hammond 1591BSBK. It's ABS plastic, and it's the same size as a 1590B. I got this one from Parts Express for a whopping 4 bucks. You can't beat that. I've never built with an aluminum box, so I don't know what you mean by the "Hammond Tilt." I did notice that the interior is just a fraction tighter, simply because the screw posts aren't machined out of the corners like an aluminum box. They are actual posts, and I did some grinding and cutting on them with the dremel to get everything seated nicely.

Thank you Mamu. I know for sure that I've been bitten, lol. I daydream about boxes, parts, colors, and wiring all day. I'm going to take a couple days off first, though. I'm always immersed in something like this, whether it be coding Android, mixing juices, building coils, or whatever has my attention at the moment. I need a breather. A couple evenings to relax. Yeah.... right.... who am I kidding? I'll be drawing a schematic before the night is over! lol

[joshleeman]

oh wow that is cheap, 3.51 at digikey, def gettin one of those for next build, metal boxes just creep me out a bit.  The hammond metal boxes outer radius is slightly bigger on the open side than the closed side so when you look at the atty it has a lean because of it, obviously the bigger boxes are more noticeable than the G.  Its easy to fix with a sander but I bought a colored box so it would either look horribly finished, color wise, or the atty lean.  Its my first one so I'll be happy if the thing freaking works, I'll be much more anal about my second box i'm sure.

[tumbafox]

can i use a polyester-film 22uf capacitor instead of the Multilayer Ceramic Capacitors in the mouser parts list?

[joshleeman]

I used these 581-TAP226K016CRW and they work just fine, easy to mount as well. 

[_tek_]

Sorry if already mentioned, but I'm digging the knives on the potentiometers everyone is using! Got a PN? Mine is giving me fits.

Nice builds everyone!

[bamanerd]

oh wow that is cheap, 3.51 at digikey, def gettin one of those for next build, metal boxes just creep me out a bit.  The hammond metal boxes outer radius is slightly bigger on the open side than the closed side so when you look at the atty it has a lean because of it, obviously the bigger boxes are more noticeable than the G.  Its easy to fix with a sander but I bought a colored box so it would either look horribly finished, color wise, or the atty lean.  Its my first one so I'll be happy if the thing freaking works, I'll be much more anal about my second box i'm sure.

Tell be about it. For a first box, I think the plastic is the way to go anyway. I mean, you don't have to worry about a bare wire hitting the box and shorting, if a wire comes loose or from packing it all in there too tightly. I think the plastic is probably a little easier to work with, especially if you don't have a dremel or equivalent. And the price..... once you get used to building and everything is going smoothly, consistently, then a nicer painted metal box would be great. If you eff something up on a $4 box, it's much easier to toss it and grab another, than it is to toss a $14 box.

I've though about painting the plastic box, or a plastic box (maybe not the one I'm currently vaping on) with spray on bedliner from Lowe's or Walmart. It's 7 bucks a can, and it is great stuff. I started using it on my adventure bike. I ride a KLR650, and I've painted many different parts on that thing, including the plastics, with black bedliner. The stuff is tough as nails, it looks good, it's pretty easy to spray on evenly, and it gives it a nice grippy feel. My buddy used it on his plastic fender flares on his Jeep. The stuff looks good, if you like flat black, which I do. Put a couple coats on there after you've made all of your cuts, and that stuff will last longer than the electronics in it. If/when I do this to a box, I'll be sure to post pics for you guys to see how it looks.

I really hate hearing that about the aluminum Hammond enclosures.... Maybe we should all send them wave of emails lol. All the more reason to use plastic! I do want a metal box, though, so I may just order a bare box, and paint it myself after fixing the "tilt."

Your box will work. I have faith in you  We all do! Just take your time to make sure your wires are all going where they're supposed to go, and that nothing is going to short. You'll have a beast of a box in no time. I was SO relieved when mine fired up.....after I had to troubleshoot and fix.... yep..... a loose wire. 

So.... good luck man!!! post some pics along the way and/or when she's done.

[scripto23]

I am liking the plastic boxes too. Much easier to work with. I pretty much just use them as a "prototyping" box, then switch to aluminum when I've got everything the way I want it.

[Rigure]

First I did the okr t10, then Breaktru pointed me in the direction of the Raptor. Along the way I did an unregulated box. Thank u to all who have posted to help me understand about caps and resisters and fets. Playing with a dc dc converter is perty fun. The fact that I can vape on it is a bonus. Heres some pics.

[Breaktru]

First I did the okr t10, then Breaktru pointed me in the direction of the Raptor. Along the way I did an unregulated box. Thank u to all who have posted to help me understand about caps and resisters and fets. Playing with a dc dc converter is perty fun. The fact that I can vape on it is a bonus. Heres some pics.

Congrats Riqure. Looking good 

[Rigure]

It  ws alot more difficult than my first build simply because I had to try to fit it in a small box. Not much room left in a 1590g after stuffing it all in there. I didnt like the pot being on the outside and the dm+switch , I didnt trust my cutout skills enough..so there inside too. Man, I  have these threads memorized...from CreigHB posting about caps to Mamu needing a fire extinguisher for her test builds...lol. all in all a good use of my spare time...only one problem. Now all my friends are asking for one...that soulds suspiciously like that dirty word...work. lol

[mamu]

Well done, Rigure!

Point your friends to this thread and tell em that if you can do it they can too and to get to it. 

[Rigure]

Ha! Id be happy if I can get my wife to start one...shes still on an ego copper mod I did for her...lol

[dravell]

You used 1590Gs for your first build? Impressive lol...I can say without a doubt on my first box there is absolutely no way I would have been able to build in a G. The work Mamu pulls off in those other small form factors amazes me. Unadulterated skill right there.

[bamanerd]

Unadulterated skill right there.

Most definitely.

Nice work, Rigure. You got a pic of the inside of that 1590G? I'd love to see how you laid it all in there. I'm about to order a few boxes, and I haven't really decided on the numbers yet. I know I want at least one 1590G.

[bamanerd]

Hey Breaktru, and Craig if you're listening, where's a good place to get some custom PCBs? I know I've read Craig talking about it, but I can't seem to find those posts right now. I really want to use boards for my next build(s). I have some Radio Shack PCBs, but they're not exactly the layout that I want. I could cut them up and use a handful of jumpers, but that would get big quickly, and I want it as clean and small as possible.

[joshleeman]

Ok so Ive been vaping on my raptor for a week now and its working great, first build so I'm very excited.  Anyways I have 2 questions regarding vout that I'm experiencing on my mod.  First off my voltage at 510 is 5.98, what causes it to be below 6?  Is it poor soldering, cheap pot, ect and is that normal?  And the second thing I noticed is as soon as the button is pressed the voltage at the 510 instantly goes to about 6.2ish for not even a full second and then it drops to 5.98 and stays there as long as button is held.  My build is the no idle drain circuit, sense pins wired to vout/grnd pin 1.

For my next build I want to use one of those pv6 illuminated fire button and had a question about how it should be wired using the no idle current drain circuit.  The button has 2 pins for the light and 2 for the switch so from everything I read in relation to installing it on other types of mods, I'm guessing I use the 2 button pins like a normal button and then to power the led I put a 100ohm resistor from one of the button pins to the pos led pin on the switch.  My question is, does it matter which pin I run the resistor from and what should I do for the led neg pin.  I obviously want the light to come on when button is pressed.  Ive read several different things online as to how the button is wired but there all different and none were specific to the no idle drain raptor so I'm kinda stuck.  Thanks everyone!!

[bamanerd]

My question is, does it matter which pin I run the resistor from and what should I do for the led neg pin.

If you want the button to light up only when you press it, I would simply connect the LED's positive post (your resistor) to the output post of the button itself. This is the same as connecting it to the Control Pin, if that would be easier for you. The negative can go to your closest ground point. This way when the button is pressed the LED gets power, and when it's released the power is cut.

I rigged up a 3mm red LED in this same manor on a little mech box that I made. I like to see that red light whenever the fire button is pressed, so that I know when it's firing and when it's not.

I also tied in the vin side of my voltmeter like this, except I tied it to the input side of the button, so that it always has power ready when I select vin with the spdt switch.

[CraigHB]

where's a good place to get some custom PCBs?

Osh Park (https://oshpark.com/).  They can take raw Eagle files which has a limited free version that should cover pretty much anything you would want to do.  Otherwise they can take the standard plot files other PCB drawing programs produce (Gerber and Excellon).

[CraigHB]

First off my voltage at 510 is 5.98, what causes it to be below 6?  Is it poor soldering, cheap pot, ect and is that normal?

There's several factors involved in the accuracy of output voltage.

Firstly, you can't really go by the voltage you see with no load.  You have to check with the enclosure open or with some kind of adapter that gives you access to the connections while the atomizer is under power.  There can be a big difference in regulation accuracy between loaded and no-load conditions. 

After that, there is some wiring between the regulation point for the converter and the atomizer connector.  There is some voltage drop that occurs there so even if the regulator is regulating to the voltage exactly, you might see some drop in the wiring, though it should not be more than a tenth of a volt.  You can compare voltage readings at the regulator and at the atomizer to see if there's a wiring issue.  Again, this must be under load or the readings will not mean anything (they'll be the same even if there's a weak connection).

Finally, regulators don't regulate perfectly.  There's always some acceptable error.  A quality regulator with keep that under 1% so in that case, a regulation point at 6V should be no less than 5.94V and no greater than 6.06V.  Your readings show the regulator to be within tolerance.

There's one other point with regulation accuracy and that's the "drop-out" of the regualtor.  All regulators have at a least some and the converters tend to have more than the LDO linear regulators.  Drop-out is the amount of input voltage you need greater than output voltage for regulation to be accurate.  Otherwise, regulation voltage falls off with input voltage. 

For a converter with a 1V drop-out (typical), it will not regulate higher than 5V with a 6V input.  That 6 Volts is the input voltage you would see with series cells when they are fully discharged.  For series cells, input voltage ranges from 8.4V fully charged to 6V fully discharged.

And the second thing I noticed is as soon as the button is pressed the voltage at the 510 instantly goes to about 6.2ish for not even a full second and then it drops to 5.98 and stays there as long as button is held.

It may be the meter doing that, not the mod.  All meters have a settling time for the readings.  Higher quality more expensive meters register correct readings more quickly than inexpensive ones.  If you're using an inexpensive meter, it could jump around quite a bit for a noticeable amount of time before settling on a stable reading.

[texanator]

what should I do for the led neg pin.  none were specific to the no idle drain raptor.

This is for the no idle drain raptor design with a p-fet (polarity protection) and n-fet (no-idle drain).

led pos leg + resistor won't matter which pin of the firing switch, but the led neg pin should go to the raptor ground (between the n-fet and raptor). if you connect it to the battery ground, then it will be lit all the time.

well, I guess if the led pos leg is on the nfet side of the firing switch, then you can probably use the battery ground. I'd go with raptor ground just to be sure, can't go wrong there.

[bamanerd]

Osh Park (https://oshpark.com/).

Thanks Craig. I'm about to order some misc parts, and I'll have a look at oshpark.

[Madmanmacguyver]

Suggestion  to Mamu and those w the skill/equipment to do it I added the ceramic caps Directly to the original cap  on-board as if GE had put them there. It saved on space and looks a bit more tidy. It also eked a tiny bit more from the output.


DO NOT DO THIS if you are not skilled at soldering SMD w an iron, you WILL kill the caps at minimum and possibly the board itself.It is NOT as simple as soldering to a pin or wire.

Note I am not putting where as it will be obvious to those who have the skill to do it.

[mamu]

Thanks for the tip, Madman.

I solder the caps tucked into the side of the inductor so they really don't take up any extra space.

If you look real close in the pic below you'll see that I lined the side and front of the inductor with Kapton tape.  I do this before soldering anything to those pins in that area.  Then I solder the pull-down resistor, then the zener, then the caps to the board.  Nice and tidy.

[karadorde]

Mamu, did you trim the pins down and solder to what was left or did you desolder the pins entirely and solder wire straight to the board?

[mamu]

I snipped the pins flush with the edge of the board, tinned with flux and solder, then good to go with wiring.

[karadorde]

That is excellent. I have a spare raptor to test my skills on with something like this and it may make layout and wiring a heck of a lot easier for my next boxes. Many thanks, ma'am.

[mmilby]

So a few things. Which size magnets are you finding work best with the hammond boxes....like 1590 B. Also with the sleds i get from digikey my flat top batteries are getting ripped up by the contacts. Any solutions? I'm gonna try using button top to see if that works better. I've also tried an array of switches on my boxes. Trying to figure which ones i like best. Any suggestions?

[bamanerd]

I bumped into someone at the local b&m yesterday who has built around 50 boxes. He told me that if you pull the contacts out of the sled and pinch them with a pair of pliers, then stick them back in there, they will be a little nicer to your batteries. I haven't tried this yet, but when I get some more sleds in, I may try it on one.

Mamu- that looks great. I'm definitely going to try to start doing mine like this from now on.

**edit** I'm using 1/4" magnets, and they work great. I don't know what everyone else uses.

[El Zipster]

I put a blob of solder on the bottom of each contact, this helps to keep the batteries in good shape.
For magnets I use 6mm by 3mm.
Cheers
Zip

[karadorde]

I got my magnets from Home Depot. They came in a pack of ten. Perfect size.

Check here for some info on 'tweaking' your battery contacts: https://imgur.com/a/VcX69

[dravell]

Yes pull the contacts out of the sled (in regards to Keystones) and just bend the inner lip inwards, that fixes all battery tearing issues.

[Madmanmacguyver]

Thanks for the tip, Madman.

I solder the caps tucked into the side of the inductor so they really don't take up any extra space.

If you look real close in the pic below you'll see that I lined the side and front of the inductor with Kapton tape.  I do this before soldering anything to those pins in that area.  Then I solder the pull-down resistor, then the zener, then the caps to the board.  Nice and tidy.

NICE that's pretty clean there...

[screwfunk]

This one is for you Mamu,

First time poster , but been lurking for some time. Killer forum, great folks. Really like it here. So the question I have is in your Raptor Diagram that has both the PFET and Nfet you have one leg of the zenner going to Vin and the other going to on/off then from the Vin you have another wire going to the S on the PFET. I just wanted to verify that this is in fact correct or is it a typo. Also a super noob question but does it mater which side of the zener I connect to either pin, more importantly do zener diodes have + / - sides....Super noob I know but I'm learning tons here and loving ever second.

Thank you in advance and thanx everybody for sharing so much.

Killer Community

Sam

[mamu]

The wiring is correct for the no idle current drain circuit.

Yes, it is critical how you place the zener in the circuit - all diodes have a cathode end and an anode end.  The cathode (end with the band or stripe) of the zener is placed toward Vin as shown in the wiring diagram.

[karadorde]

Well, I just finished the Raptor 20A in a 1590G enclosure. What an incredibly frustrating yet fun build. Really made me think about how I laid stuff out and how I ran my wires. I ended up omitting the fuses and the mosfet because for personal use, I did not deem them necessary. I also only wired the voltmeter to display output voltage because that is all I really need. I've already decommissioned the 1590B. Going to figure out something fun to do with it. Here are a couple of quick shots. You can see where I had to crack open the tape on the regulator to add another pull down resistor. The one I implemented didn't do it's job and I was having an autofire issue.

[bamanerd]

Well, I just finished the Raptor 20A in a 1590G enclosure.

Beautimous! Congrats man. Great job at laying it all in there. Very nice.

[Breaktru]

Nice job karadorde. Very nice

[screwfunk]

The wiring is correct for the no idle current drain circuit.

Yes, it is critical how you place the zener in the circuit - all diodes have a cathode end and an anode end.  The cathode (end with the band or stripe) of the zener is placed toward Vin as shown in the wiring diagram.

Mamu,

Thank you very much for clarifying this for me. I read up on zener diodes before I posted which prompted the question and needed the clarification from you. I really appreciate your patience and not flaming me for noob questions. I have made the appropriate corrections. Again thank you everyone for not being trolls and helping out even with the simple questions which I'm sure you have answered before. As soon as I get a few of my own built out and working I will be sure to answer some of the questions as they roll in. This is what promotes a healthy forum / community and you guys are doing it right.

Sam

[mamu]

Welcome to the G club, karadorde!  lol I hear ya about frustrating but such a great feeling to do it.  Well done!

Welcome, screwfunk!  Post eye candy when you get er done!

[Madyicstik]

Im trying to fit this in a 1590b box, just wondering which parts i can live with out? Like voltage meter? Master switch?

[Breaktru]

As soon as I get a few of my own built out and working I will be sure to answer some of the questions as they roll in. This is what promotes a healthy forum / community and you guys are doing it right.

Sam

Amen to that brother

[Madyicstik]

You don't have to use an N-FET in order to use a non-rated master switch.  Just insert the master switch between Source of the P-FET and fire switch instead of between the Drain of the P-FET and fuse in the original diagram.  A master switch between Source and fire switch takes advantage of the low current at the on/off control so you don't need a rated master switch.  But there is still idle current drain from on/off control as it doesn't disconnect power so all it does is prevent firing of the atty.

Here's the wiring for the N-FET... the master switch still doesn't disconnect power, but it does eliminate the idle current drain from on/off control plus prevents firing of the atty...

i like this diagram. thanks mamu. im going to use this and make sure credits goes to where its due.