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Breaktru Forum  |  eCigarette Forum  |  General Discussions  |  Topic: Another Article Written Without the Aid of the truth
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Author Topic: Another Article Written Without the Aid of the truth  (Read 7974 times)

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Offline Erck89

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Another Article Written Without the Aid of the truth
« on: March 29, 2014, 12:43:05 PM »
  Checked my email, and there was the same vendor's daily collection of offers from various other vendors.  I selected the first one and opened it for perusal.  While looking the site over, I discovered it had a forum.  Being like that battery bunny and always ready to jump in with my two cents worth, I clicked on it's title.  Right out of the box, an anti nic article thread comes up.  It seems, Michael Richtel of the New York Times, elected to address deaths and serious illness in young children due to nicotine exposure, and proceeded to attack e cigarette juice and it's users.  The first notable misinformation dollop, appeared in the introductory lines of the piece.  He states, nicotine is found in and extracted from tobacco.  Correct - - - to a point.  In his haste to lay the ills of the world on the doorstep of vaping, he failed to point out, nicotine is found in members of the night shade family.  That would be tomatoes, eggplant, and asparagus, to name a few.  He also failed to mention, nicotine is used in many medicines.  Some I am certain he has reached for, as part of a treatment protocol, to relieve some pain or aliment making his existence less than comfortable,  Michael continues, blaming parents, of these errant children, for not securing these hadean liquids in a manner a child could not defeat.  He obviously has not spent much time around kids.  Further to his discredit, he fails to point out that not all vapors use nicotine in their ready to use or DIY liquids and those liquids are not made from solvents.  Yes, solvents.  He states categorically, they contain solvent.  I'm sure, that is eluding to glycols we use as dilutents, PG and VG. 

   Mr. Richtel's attack on vaping, through the guise of a piece on nicotine, is a travesty. Go to the Gotsmoke Forum and follow the link to the NY Times article and lets iodate his editor with our thoughts on Michael Richtel's, poorly researched, article.

Online Breaktru

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Re: Another Article Written Without the Aid of the truth
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2014, 01:38:56 PM »
I watch a lot of News shows on TV. A couple of days ago they were harping on eJuice and how dangerous it was. They said if a child came in contact with a teaspoon of eJuice it would prove fatal. And a tablespoon would kill an adult. They never stated pure nicotine. They said eJuice and showed bottles of all ready made eJuice which we know is diluted down significantly. I've seen the same report on several local news channels.

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Another Article Written Without the Aid of the truth
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2014, 12:38:41 PM »
Never a shortage of reports like that.

I've seen 50mg of nicotine stated as a fatal level for children which may or may not be accurate.  For a strong 18mg juice, that would be almost 3ml which is around a teaspoon.  For an adult nicotine user I've seen 500mg, but I've also seen numbers higher than that.  So, you're talking 10 teaspoons at least.  You would have to drink it or rub it all over your body it to absorb 100% of the nicotine and I don't know how any rational adult would ever do that.  For an adult non-nicotine user it's somewhat lower, but not a huge amount.

As far as solvents, that doesn't mean anything really.  There are all kinds of solvents, water is a solvent.  The traditional reference is to those that are poisonous if consumed like paint thinner, but anything that something can dissolve in is a solvent.  Kind of the same reference to juice being anti-freeze.  Not all anti-freeze is poisonous, alcohol and salt can be considered anti-freeze.

Nicotine is a natural chemical plants use as a defense against pests, but people like to think it only exists in tobacco.  Some fruits and vegetables have it too, but tobacco has by far the highest content.   Anybody who eats plants is exposed to nicotine at some level, but people like to think it's only smokers.

Offline Erck89

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Re: Another Article Written Without the Aid of the truth
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2014, 09:35:25 PM »
 raged:

              Craig:  You and I know the truth and try our best to get the information out there  and/or support those that are.  But, when you are ill informed, probably a smoker or an ex-smoker, and to lazy to find out the truth, you write drivel and publish it. 

   I don't know if you are a member of any other forums, but I invite you, and others to stop by the The Vaping Den Forum.  There is a fellow, Mark Burton, from Los Angles,  who has emerged as the banner bearer for vaping.  He has been featured, first on local radio and lately nationally.  We all support him any way we can.  He is a lawyer and crams everything into his day.  He could use all the help he can get.  I recently found, and published, a list, a very long list, of research that has been done on vaping and he was very appreciative, because we are constantly being told there is no research so we need to regulate it or ban it.  There HAS been lots of research, it just has not been disseminated to the masses.  This is being used against us by those paid to spread misinformation to law makers and in some cases the isolated medical community.  Te Vaping Den Forum and the Breakthu Forum are the best forums of their kind on the web.  We must work together or wll find ourselves in our own Prohibition.  Fact - In California, it is against the law to vape in a vaping store.  You and all our members here are needed.

               Eric

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Another Article Written Without the Aid of the truth
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2014, 05:13:42 PM »
   I don't know if you are a member of any other forums, but I invite you, and others to stop by the The Vaping Den Forum.

Yes, I visit The Vaper's Den.  Breaktru visits there sometimes as well.  I've been really busy lately so I haven't been going over that much, but I'll spend more time there when I have free time.  I come to this forum more often since it's a techy modding forum which interests me more than the lighter topicality at the Den.  But yeah, Mark's a great guy, I've talked to him a lot.

Online Breaktru

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Re: Another Article Written Without the Aid of the truth
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2014, 09:02:55 AM »
I found the article HERE

Offline Erck89

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Re: Another Article Written Without the Aid of the truth
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2014, 09:41:01 AM »
I found the article HERE

  Dave:   Same article, which goes to prove it is some kind of a campaign to discredit PVs.  Do you think someone is getting their fiscal toes stepped on?

Here, this story was picked up on the local CBS news affiliate.  I sent them two emails before I went to bed.  One the partial list of research that has been done on e-cigs, in total contradictions to the network news piece and a VVVVVVVVVVVVVVery long one that tries to enlighten the producer to the true faces and to the manipulation of the facts in the network piece.  The only question I didn't pose in either communication was the one Craig and lots have pointed out (with regard to the 2 child stories in the CBS piece), "Where were the parents in these accidents?  For the record, I reminded them of the cigarette butt in the ashtray on the coffee table (to be eaten), the butt in the partially consummed soda on the lamp table at the end of the sofa, and the bleach sitting easily in reach of little hands, on the washing machine. 

    I beg all who read this, don't let them get away with this.  Call, write, and/or email your local news channel(s).  Remember, 95% of the public, gets 99% of it's information from the television or the internet.  And we all know, they wouldn't lie or give out any bad information.

              Eric

Offline Bruce

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Re: Another Article Written Without the Aid of the truth
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2014, 02:11:00 AM »
 In the majority of articles I read they admit very little research has been done then they totally discount that fact and they start saying ecigs are bad. Well how in hell do they know if by their own admission very little research has been done. They also state as if it were a fact that the attempts at smoking cessation is no more succesful using e cigarettes versus the patch, gum, etc. That is an outright LIE. I personnaly know of many people who were unsucessful at quiting using those other methods but DID quit using ecigs. 
   The real issue here is two fold: loss of MONEY through taxation and the big tobacco firms having a meltdown over their loss of business. The MILLIONS big tobacco throws into political campaigns gains them a lot of power.
   The FDA has recently released some disturbing plans reference to required research from dealers and manufaturers of their products and FDA aproval prior to making them available to the public. These requirements most probably will make our eliquids and equipment VERY expensive if not unavailable in the future.
   Therefore, I will (and suggest you do to) spend the time to get very good at making my own ejuice and stock up signifcantly on my supplies before those new tyrannical rules take effect.     Bruce

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Another Article Written Without the Aid of the truth
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2014, 12:48:09 PM »
I think the FDA is one of the most corrupt agencies in the government.  They exist only to serve the interest of big business.  FDA approval doesn't mean a damn thing in terms of public safety.  They operate under the guise of protecting the public then approve drugs with "death" listed as a side effect.  Then they shoot down really beneficial drugs that can help a lot of people.  They run 100% on payola.  You can buy approval for anything really.

I'm pretty well stocked on the stuff the FDA can regulate that will impact my vaping habits, really just the nic base.  Though when all the domestic online vendors get shut down that will suck, but I can always mail order from China if I have to.  It will never be a matter of going back to the cigs, though it seems the FDA would rather I smoke.

Offline Erck89

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Re: Another Article Written Without the Aid of the truth
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2014, 04:17:05 PM »
Ok Guys.  No one agrees more than I.  I think I started this fury and have not let up.  However, I have uncovered the hidden agenda that appears to be driving this mess.  I you know the senate has oversight of the FDA.  In beating on the corrupt occupying the hallowed halls, I've uncovered the occasional populates who can not help but tell something containing a modicum of face saving truth.  It seems there is research afoot, by the pharm industry or, more than likely, and individual pharm company to use vaping as delivery system for medications.  Think about that.  If you are number one with the patent, you make more money than carter has little farter starters.  But, you need to have all the slides greased before you let the cat out of the bag.  And that, ladies and gents, seems to be the reason behind all this crap.  Wife is beating on me to go, so must close for now.  Will pick this up after I get back home.      Eric   

Offline Bruce

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Re: Another Article Written Without the Aid of the truth
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2014, 05:47:00 AM »
 Had a run in with an idiot tonight. He brings me this article from the USA today (I think it was). The article went on to say that ecigarettes leave nano particles of metals in your lungs from the inhalers. Anyway, the article was short and not much was substantiated. Therefore, this dude I was talking with is automatically an expert and determines that ecigarettes are bad for everyone. Goes on to say that PG is found in Antifreeze of which I replied so is water so let's outlaw water. The bottom line is this guy read ONE article and is somehow an expert. He doesn't smoke and never has so just what his concern or agenda is eludes me! I suspect as the debate rolls around we will all have to fight the dummies and crusaders of the world...... :wallbash:......Bruce
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 06:23:36 AM by Bruce »

Offline Erck89

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Re: Another Article Written Without the Aid of the truth
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2014, 02:45:40 PM »
Bruce:

      We run into these idiots all the time.  You have probably seen the piece I did that started this tirade.  Make a copy and give to this guy and and educate him to the facts that ethylene glycol (antifreeze) is not a close relative to Propylene glycol found in foods, medicine and vaping fluids.  In fact, one maker of antifreeze has eliminated the highly toxic ethylene glycol from its product and gone to the non toxic, biodegradable, and non polluting propylene glycol (our PG) because it is so safe.  Additionally,  let this Einstein know that if he or anyone he knows has ever taken a liquid medication or cough preventive liquid, they have consumed PG.  Next, he will jump on nicotine.  A huge slice of this community does not use ejuice containing nicotine.  But he should know that of the 4985 chemicals in cigarette smoke, the only one that is not a carcinogen is nicotine.  Further, since nicotine is a natural product found in plants from the nightshade family, he consumes nicotine ever time he eats tomatoes, asparagus, eggplant, etc. as well as everytime he takes some of those pain killers so sought after when we are injured, sick, or recovering from some medical procedures. 

      Eric

Online Breaktru

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Re: Another Article Written Without the Aid of the truth
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2014, 03:59:32 PM »
Back in 2010 when I first started vaping, people where incorrectly posting (ECF) that PG was the same ingredient as in antifreeze. They got that from the bogus televised media news reports. I've seen a few of those myself.

Antifreeze used Ethylene Glycol. It had been a problem because dogs often lap up puddles of anti-freeze and was replaced by Propylene Glycol.
PG comes in more than one formulation, so it needs to be clarified as to which formulation it is.
We use the pharmaceutical grade and NOT the industrial grade such as used in engine coolants and antifreeze; airplane de-icers; polyurethane cushions; paints, enamels and varnishes.



Offline CraigHB

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Re: Another Article Written Without the Aid of the truth
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2014, 05:35:08 PM »
You can still get ethylene glycol based anti-freeze for your car.  I replaced the coolant for my truck recently and used the ethylene based stuff.  Some of the engine coolant products are PG based, but you can still get the ethylene ones.  They put something in the poisonous stuff now to make it taste really nasty so animals don't consume it if they come across a puddle of it.

The problem with the term anti-freeze is it's really a generic term that covers a lot of different chemicals, but people mainly associate it with the poisonous stuff used in automotive cooling systems.  PG is an anti-freeze, but it's also an inert substance used for a lot of other things too.

Offline Emerpor_Kraft

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Re: Another Article Written Without the Aid of the truth
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2014, 09:32:29 AM »
as far as the FDA i got one word Aspartame its proof that big industry gets what it wants at any cost and whether its safe or not dose not matter

Offline shonda

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Re: Another Article Written Without the Aid of the truth
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2018, 12:34:17 AM »
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