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Breaktru Forum  |  eCigarette Forum  |  Modding  |  Topic: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
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Offline ModManCooper

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40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« on: August 04, 2014, 10:34:29 AM »
Hi everyone I purchased some 40 watt Raptors not to long ago and was going to build some boxes with them.  After staring at the data sheet for 4 hours ive decided that im getting no where.  Every calculation I do for my resistors pots etc comes out a different number each time.  I have built with lots of the okl2 chips and the naos 120 and had 0 issues understanding what is used and why.  Im not sure what is throwing me in a loop on this one but need yalls help.  Anyone got a diagram or calculations you can post to assist me with this please?? Thanks Yall ;cheers;

Offline david4500

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2014, 02:00:28 AM »
Use http://www.wolframalpha.com/ with the formula

Online Breaktru

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2014, 07:45:44 AM »
40A / 200Watts is crazy IMO.

A 150 ohm pot with a 273 ohm fixed resistor will give you an output range of 3.44V to 5.0V. 5V is the max output specified in the datasheet.

However, you need an input voltage that is 180% above output voltage. To achieve 5V output you will need an input voltage of 9V minimum as specified in the datasheet. That is if I did my math correct.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 08:04:50 AM by Breaktru »

Offline ModManCooper

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2014, 12:44:19 PM »
Thank you for the help it's much appreciated!!  So it wouldnt be possible to run this chip at it's full potential using 2 18650 batteries or any 3.6-4.2v for that matter right? 

Online Breaktru

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2014, 03:19:44 PM »
Input voltage is 5V to 13.8V.
With two 18650s in series, your full range of 3.44V to 5V output voltage would not be met as the batteries drain down.
Do the math. Vin must me 180 percent equal to or over output voltage. Example: 1.8 x 3.44V output = 6.192V input. 1.8 x 5V output = 9V input
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 03:23:21 PM by Breaktru »

Offline CraigHB

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2014, 04:52:15 PM »
You could power it with 3 series cells.  In that case you would get your output range up to 5V for any state of charge on the battery.

Offline Visus

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2014, 05:48:12 PM »
Figure 43 on page 13 shows Breaks math is spot on


This module would be awesome  with a Belkin backup 7Ah 12v batt as a passthru , cost ya less than 15 bucks on ebay..

Offline BOFH

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2014, 05:43:36 AM »
You will also need 40A batteries to run it at full power.

Something like this might be a better idea - http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__37354__ZIPPY_Traxxas_1400mAh_3S1P_30C_Lipo_Pack_Suits_TRA2823_.html

Or this with a big box if you want long life http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__8587__ZIPPY_Flightmax_5000mAh_3S1P_30C.html

You can get a couple of them and a balance charger for not much different to 3 High Amp 18650's

Offline CraigHB

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2014, 08:24:38 PM »
The LiPos are great for high drain rates, but you take a hit in size with them.  You could run 3 HE2 or VTC5 cells in series for space consumption of 65x54x18 with 2500mAh compared to 90x35x19mm with 1400mAh for the small 3S LiPo.  Though the nice thing with a LiPo is you can just charge the cell in the mod using an off the shelf balance charger and extension cable.  For the 18650s, you need to either remove the cells for charging or add a balance charging plug.

Keep in mind current demands are lower on the cells when running in series.  A 120W output demand results in an input demand around 130W which puts a current demand of about 12A on a set of 3 series cells (nominal 11.1 Volts).

Offline ModManCooper

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2014, 05:44:54 PM »
Thank y'all for the responses. I've had my doubts that 2 18650 or 2 26650 batteries would be enough to provide this chip with what's needed to perform at it's max output but wanted to verify. I see some of these chips running around in boxes with only 2 batteries and believed it was simply a selling point saying it has this chip in it.

Offline CraigHB

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2014, 06:27:49 PM »
It will still work to an extent with two series cells, but you'll run into the unusually high "dropout" issue with this regulator.  You'll be limited in output voltage by battery input voltage.  You wouldn't be able to take advantage of the regulator's full capability.  Like you said, it's a BS thing they're doing selling mods as 200W capable that only run two cells. 

The only way to get 200W out of two cells is with 30A 18650s or a pair of 20C plus LiPo cells.  Even then, battery voltage sag will probably cause the regulator to hit the dropout causing a reduction in output voltage and thereby power output.

100W is a ridiculous power level and 200W is twice as ridiculous.  Anyone attempting to vape with 200W would probably not know the difference between that and 100W anyway.  You would have to put the device on some test equipment to tell what's really going on.  Going by atomizer resistance will have a *lot* of error so you have to measure current.  Most people don't have a 50A ammeter lying around.  They're making claims that can not be easily verified so no one is going to call them on it.

The only way to get this regulator to put out maximally is with three cells in series.  Two cells are able to put out twice as much power as a single cell and three cells are able to put out three times as much power as a single cell.  This is why power tool packs use groups of 5 or 6 cells in series.  Power tools can have demands as high as 750W.

Offline Jerod

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2014, 11:30:55 PM »
Correct me if I'm out in left field on this one, but, would resistors and pots not be the same for both the raptor 20A and 40A? V-in does not appear to need to be different, and an 18650 is an 18650 when it comes to voltage delivery. So my attempt at deductive reasoning tells me that the 20A chip, which should be able to fire up to 6V would also fall short of the (V-in must meet 1.8xV-out) requirement. Please let me know if I'm failing somewhere here, I'm not a builder, just interested.

Offline ModManCooper

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2014, 12:05:22 AM »
In comparing the 2 chips there is a large difference in what is required to make them function at their capabilities.  This is why I started this thread because I thought they would use the same pots and resistors. Once I started doing the calculations I new they were 2 completely different animals.  Craig, Break, and the others that have commented on this have helped me to understand a bit better on what I was doing wrong and what I was looking for.  Maybe they could explain a bit better than me on the calculations.

Offline Jerod

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2014, 12:39:07 AM »
I've actually held a 40a raptor box, made locally by a guy that also does 10a and 20a boxes. I didn't realize they would be that much different to build. If someone would be willing to educate me, I'm definitely ready to learn.

Offline Visus

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2014, 11:47:04 AM »
Table 1 page 13 gives the resistor chart.
http://apps.geindustrial.com/publibrary/checkout/NSR040A0X?TNR=Data%20Sheets|NSR040A0X|generic


I would go with a 220ohm set resistor and a 500 ohm=720ohms
 pot/trim  ~2.1v--5.5v


Offline snap crackle

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2014, 01:45:31 AM »
Ok.... I need help PLEASE.
For the enable positive logic pin would I want to apply positive battery voltage through a momentary switch after a 9.1v zener and use a 1k pulldown resistor between the enable pin and ground?
I will be using two 11.1v 850mah lipo batteries in parallel btw
5.5v is the maximum voltage for the enable circuit according to the data sheet....
Also is fusing the Vin circuit necessary for safety... I don't want any loss and also don't want to run 4 parallel 10a fuses.
ANY help would be beyond greatly appreciated.
Thanks
« Last Edit: November 16, 2014, 10:08:33 AM by snap crackle »

Offline UnmoG

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2015, 01:11:56 AM »
Has this been figured out yet? I have not been able to find any solid info. Wiring diagram would be lovely.

Offline Visus

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2015, 02:14:53 AM »
Has this been figured out yet? I have not been able to find any solid info. Wiring diagram would be lovely.

There's nothing to figure out it's super simple.

It hella simple to wire and probably not for someone who has no idea how to hook it up.  Why start on one that can definitely kill ya?  If you have wired any reg this one is easiest. 

Lol

Woot 200 watts tho

Page 16 has all the details on hookup its positive logic up to 5.5v and has multiple in/outs. 

I personally would raise the 5.5v with a 150-200ohm set resistor and 500ohm pot probably netting 1.7v-6.5v... Page 13


Offline UnmoG

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2015, 06:05:44 AM »
So... Like This?

I am an Information Systems guy, not an Electrical Engineer so please, please point out if I'm being crazy. ;bow;
I took the 120W version that is floating around and changed it based on what I found in the datasheets and this thread.

My Questions:
1. For the fuses do we need 40A total or only 30A? PG 2 at the bottom says something about only 30A.

2. For between pins 5 & 6, GND and on/off is the 4.7K still sufficient?

3. I feel like the 5.6v Zephner should be bumped up, yes? What to?

4. The sense + and - should be treated as with the 120W yes?

Oh and yes I saw that it will probably need 3 18650 Batteries in series to reach the higher settings.

Thanks guys I hope I have at least gotten us closer to having a diagram. I have the PSD if anyone wants it. :thankyou:

Offline Visus

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2015, 07:12:19 AM »
Looking good but tie in all the grounds and vin, vouts
widening the path taking much needed load
off single  pins
I would sense at the atomizer it really helps with sag accuracy as the batts lose power.

The zener will limit v to ~5v its fine and the 4.7kr will cutoff around 6.2v with 7.4v

If you do 3s you will need to change the schematic
heres a calculator for limit r for 11.1v
http://www.reuk.co.uk/Zener-Diode-Voltage-Regulator.htm
Like the dpdt switch but you wont be able to turn off the display  they get annoying lol

The sense wires do not carry the load so you can use smaller reasonable gauge

Yeah max input 30A but they go over a bit if you go over 40A which they can up to you
That mofo a handle 180% over before it shuts down
Your out of small resettables range use a blade fuse IMO
It shouldn't blow if ya wire it right..

lol yeah ur nutz that huge power
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 07:25:01 AM by Visus »

Offline david4500

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2015, 02:39:48 AM »


Wow you really Frankensteined together a diagram there with some photoshop wizardy...

One of Mamu's Raptor 120 watt diagrams I had edited/corrected specifically for a user on reddit's OpenPV http://www.reddit.com/r/OpenPV/comments/2j6vi4/how_to_solder_up_your_20a_raptor_board/cl9d1io?context=3
All credit removed from the original creator of the drawing. I suggest you remove that image and create your own.

« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 03:11:31 AM by david4500 »

Offline UnmoG

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2015, 12:22:43 PM »
Alright I think we've got it figured out. Parts are on the way. Hope to build next weekend. Will post finished diagram(s) after then.
Thanks Visus. :thumbsup:

Offline kapaa1970

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2015, 05:04:02 PM »
Hi  in a newbie here. Just wanted  share that I have tried to assemble this 200watt raptor box using the diagram listed on here with no luck at all. Followed the layout exactly, twice. Did  assemble this  and  any better  them I did. Please help.

Offline UnmoG

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2015, 12:11:41 AM »
Oh I totally forgot to repost my diagram. Here it is, nothing changed much from hypothetical one. I built it and it worked pretty well. my soldering skills were sub-par then though.
I think I used a 30A fuse instead of a 40A.

*just cause this worked for me, I don't guarantee anything build at your own risk use common sense bla bla bla.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 12:26:22 AM by UnmoG »

Offline kapaa1970

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2015, 03:59:04 AM »
Thanks. Can you tell me which wires  are 18 gauge.

Offline kapaa1970

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2015, 04:06:11 AM »
Also can I just tie the gnd pins 4-5-14 & 15  together and run one 18 gauge wire from pin 15 to the battery sled. And tie all Vin together add well as all vouts together.

Offline g2vapetech

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Re: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2015, 06:21:12 AM »
Hi All,
New Member here. Im sorry if i seem like im Hijacking this thread but I couldnt figure out how to start a new topic  :wallbash: so if any moderators want to move this post to its own thread, that would be great.
To start off, ive been making unreg box mods dual 18 and 26 some mosfet but ive never done a VV/VW box mod, however I am really anxious to try.
I know i should probably spend the extra money and get the sx350 or the sx330 v3s but im interested in the 40a
http://apps.geindustrial.com/publibrary/checkout/NSR040A0X?TNR=Data%20Sheets|NSR040A0X|generic 

I have a couple of probably newbish questions but here goes.

A. Is it possible to wire tactic buttons or something similar in place of the potentiometer.

B. id like to have some kind of display for Voltage andf AMperage and as its difficult to find ones that can withstand higher amperage, i located this
http://www.amazon.com/GT-Power-Analyzer-Consumption-Performance/dp/B00C1BZSYO/ref=pd_sim_sbs_t_1/188-8810357-7339308?ie=UTF8&refRID=1R1BH6VDHAPFXEPGSQM0
which seems to meet all the requirements, i dont need inline ohms but it would be nice if its possible.

Id like to do 3 x 18650 slED HERE
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Triple-18650-battery-sled-battery-holder-mod-box-vapor-/171722702298?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27fb787dda
 
and ive found a nice box that should hold it all
l http://www.okw.co.uk/en/Synergy/EE206059.htm?var=be68b020-0301-11e4-ba06-bc764e08780f
im planning on replacing the plastic panels with either carbon fiber or copper plates or a carbon fiber covered copper plate(which i have on hand)

other items would be

various resistors, which i currently have plenty.

Fat daddy 510 connector (which i would replace the spring with a copper spring) includes 30mm plate
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fat-Daddy-Vapes-FDV-V4-510-connector-15mm-22mm-30mm-Box-mod-Juice-well-/131431087182?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item1e99e73c4e
and additional 22mm plate
http://www.ebay.com/itm/22mm-cap-for-Fat-Daddy-Vapes-V4-510-connector-Box-mod-Black-brass-copper-silver-/141587324565?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item20f7431e95

anti vandal switch(es) .. I used 2 of them on many mech boxes where one had to be pressed first and then the other to provide a little extra safety so no pocket bombs
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Anti-Vandal-Momentary-Stainless-Steel-Metal-Push-Switch-Flat-Top-GREEN-LED-12mm-/291359224602?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d65cf31a

@16AWG Solid core copper wire
like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-2-Meters-17AWG-OCC-Long-Crystal-Copper-Wire-Solid-Core-Version-/281607940233?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4191242889
or this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-2-Meters-17AWG-OCC-Long-Crystal-Copper-Wire-Solid-Core-Version-/281607940233?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4191242889
breadboard
testing
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2860-Points-PCB-Solderless-BreadBoard-Breadboard-For-The-R-D-University-lab-New-/201306448091?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2edecca0db
perm.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5PCS-Prototype-PCB-Board-Universal-Bread-Board-5-7cm-432-Hole-Sigle-Side-Copper/110876743820?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D7d1e9cf48f2f4e748485309526434b5a%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D400516467967&rt=nc

id also need a toggle switch for killing power
and a fuse
http://www.amazon.com/In-line-ACT-Water-resistant-Fuse-Holder/dp/B0002KR88A/ref=pd_sim_t_10?ie=UTF8&refRID=1ZD9N7HKF5SP9REXCECQ

and if the buttons couldnt be used for the pot then id use
http://www.okw.co.uk/en/category/f33780b0-a839-11e3-802c-00163e72470b/products?vs=af93bb10-c2e5-11e2-8e2c-0050568225d7%24%24ALL

That being said, did I miss any parts, and most importantly
can someone help me in simple terms or point me in the direction of a wiring diagram that can help me utilize the aforemention items or equivalent replacements therein.

I dont want to invest the money in a prototype box until i can visualy concieve it in my mind\


Thanks so much


« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 06:28:16 AM by g2vapetech »

Breaktru Forum  |  eCigarette Forum  |  Modding  |  Topic: 40a 200 Watt Raptor Diagram Help
 

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