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Author Topic: DNA 200 is Coming  (Read 48656 times)

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Online Breaktru

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DNA 200 is Coming
« on: June 12, 2015, 03:45:07 PM »
I was fortunate enough to be one of the beta testers for the Evolv DNA 200
Only info on the 200 is that it is 200 watts, temp control and firmware upgrade-able.

Uses 3S LiPo battery pack. You can also use (3) 18650s and also supports LiFePo batteries.
Has individual cell monitoring
Full balance charging integrated into the board

That's all I can say right now.



« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 05:12:48 PM by Breaktru »

Offline ambivalent

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2015, 04:51:43 PM »
Well I hope for Evolv's sake that its a resounding success, I find it difficult to get excited about though after the 40.

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2015, 08:48:26 PM »
Sooooo....they went from a DNA25 w/TC to a DNA200 w/TC?

If only 25W are actually needed for TC, why would anybody want another 175 wasted watts?

Is Evolv gonna sell these to China, cuz the watt wars are long dead?

I thought that the Evolv 'mission' was TC...and not setting your juice ablaze?

Offline dc99

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2015, 08:54:41 PM »
Is a pretty big jump. Well, a giant jump. Hmmmm. Does it require ni200 for TC??? Come on Break, just drop a hint

Offline Visus

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2015, 10:54:42 PM »
Woot nice builds Break
That second mod looks badarse
I have that polycase its a nice sized modder box looks good
@ 3s thats gotta be hella tight,  very nice..


200 watts is awesome

I vaped a 150 watts last night its so hot ..
Literally 1 sec and woosh clouds of vapor not to bad on flavor but hawt
4mm+ coil dia and 200w  possible

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2015, 10:55:33 PM »
Ya know what's funny...I was just gonna say, "I wonder when Mike's gonna open a coop thread?"

Looks like all of the Beta's got the news at the same time cuz Mike's coop thread opened shortly before Dave's thread.

But now that I peer into Mike's coop, something ugly just popped out!

What I didn't realize when Dave said "Uses 3S"....

In other words...you HAVE TO use at least 3 cells.

So unless you plan on making a monster mod using at least 3 batteries, this ain't the board for you!

The SMY 180 comes to mind... :no:   PASS!

« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 11:57:26 PM by timesarerough »

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2015, 11:04:02 PM »
So Dave, does that mean the the input voltage has to be at least 10V?

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2015, 12:02:12 AM »
I really hope that this isn't gonna be what I think it's leading to....??

Your typical desktop modder isn't gonna want to be working with 12.6V lipo battery packs.

I can just see these massive explosions and fireworks waiting to happen!

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2015, 02:23:56 AM »
Aaaaand surfing the darkside for info...I found an interesting theory, which could be very accurate?

"My gut feeling, especially with SuckMyMod's comment above, is where it becomes interesting is in the pre-heat. You set the mod to 150W or whatever it can do in TC (maybe 200 even), and that gives a very brief but very powerful blast to the coil to get it almost instantaneously at-temp, almost no ramp up time at all. From there it drops the wattage right down to normal TC levels to maintain that."

Now that would make sense why Evolv would make a 200W board.

Offline mamu

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2015, 07:56:22 AM »
There's no reason to think these DNA200 mods will be huge just cause you need to use batts in 3S configuration.

As you can see from breaktru's mod and Evolv's mod, they are very hand friendly.

Here's mine... only 91mm x 26mm x 40mm using a 3S lipo pack.  I've since revised it to make it a bit taller for comfort modding room to fit the parts.

Getting a whole day and then some of vaping with it before needing a charge.




Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2015, 07:57:39 AM »


Found by Tpat591

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2015, 08:00:00 AM »
Is this what's in the beta's?


Offline mamu

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2015, 08:06:35 AM »
I really hope that this isn't gonna be what I think it's leading to....??

Your typical desktop modder isn't gonna want to be working with 12.6V lipo battery packs.

I can just see these massive explosions and fireworks waiting to happen!

Really?  You just need to stop with the unwarranted fear mongering concerning lipo packs and get yourself educated.  Both breaktru and I as well as new modders work with lipo packs.  You need to join box modders or lipo mods at FB to get an education of what modders - and yes noobie modders - are doing nowadays.  And no one has harmed them self or others modding with series lipo packs.

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2015, 08:18:11 AM »
Really?  You just need to stop with the unwarranted fear mongering concerning lipo packs and get yourself educated.  Both breaktru and I as well as new modders work with lipo packs.  You need to join box modders or lipo mods at FB to get an education of what modders - and yes noobie modders - are doing nowadays.  And no one has harmed them self or others modding with series lipo packs.

Couldn't pay me to join FB...

I've seen what 3 cells in a series lipo can do when punctured, it's not pretty.

And it's not the modder that scares me, it's the person that buys what Joe Average made in his garage.

Finding an enclosure that's suitable could also be an issue....and printed will probably be popular.

But how many of those plastic printed enclosures/mods are gonna wind up in a noobs hands?

Having no idea of the volatility of the cell inside of it...
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 08:35:56 AM by timesarerough »

Online Breaktru

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2015, 08:52:34 AM »
Woot nice builds Break
That second mod looks badarse
I have that polycase its a nice sized modder box looks good
@ 3s thats gotta be hella tight,  very nice..


200 watts is awesome

I vaped a 150 watts last night its so hot ..
Literally 1 sec and woosh clouds of vapor not to bad on flavor but hawt
4mm+ coil dia and 200w  possible


Yes that second mod is sweet. But... that is a prototype mod that evolve sent me and other beta testers.

The 3S li-po pack is quite small in size.
Everything fit in side the Hammond 1550PBK box shown in the first photo.

Mamu is the star with her 3D printer and here CAD skills. Much better when you incorporate the functionality of the on-board buttons recessed into the case. This will keep the mod size down to a minimum.

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2015, 09:01:37 AM »
Is Evolv willing to sell the beta enclosures D?

They look custom made...

Is that cast zinc alloy?

Online Breaktru

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2015, 11:39:25 AM »
I don't know if they plan to sell a complete mod in that case or if it's just for beta testing.
I got to say it's one fine piece of work. I was lucky to get the refined cut version and not the crude cut that was originally sent out.

They made these cases over at evolv. Not sure what metal it is. Don't know if there is a plan to sell case separate.

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2015, 12:11:17 PM »
I don't mean the complete mod, I mean just the enclosure as an optional purchase with the board?

If it's zinc alloy it would feel quite heavy, much heavier than a Hana box. If you own an eGrip, that would give you a very good idea of how much heavier zinc alloy is compared to aluminum alloy.

The enclosure would be a HUGE help since it's already designed for this board and having a metal enclosure would put a lot off peeps minds at ease...mine included.  :yes"

Is it vented on the bottom or somewhere?

I think that you guys can start disclosing everything about it now, right?

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2015, 12:50:20 PM »




The "DNA200 scene" at Visus's compound -- unfortunately I haz no compound as of 11:38am today..
That could change by 12pm today lol..


NIIIIIce Mamu


Its not like these existed a few months ago,   heck even today  try to find a 200 watt regulator that is this tiny with a display  lol.   (excellent picture find Times)  NIIIce Evolv...

I would bet a biggest seller if its anything as good as the DNA proven products..
Somebody gotta scope it.  Spoilers?   lol

I bet it does 199.5 watts  :popcorn:

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2015, 12:54:31 PM »
Out of curiosity D....

Did the beta include testing to see what would happen if the board failed?

Or more specifically...if the balancer failed?

And is there a way for a 'garage modder' to actually test the functionality of the board before hooking it up to a 35C 3S pack?

I know that it's unlikely that a board would be defective right out of the box, but the 40 did have a lot of issues on it's beta release.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 01:01:46 PM by timesarerough »

Offline VapingBad

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2015, 01:34:58 PM »
The PC software and all that brings it terms of data capture and customisation sounds fantastic.  From the pics looks like some nice bits/features: std Lipo connector, detachable screen, screw mount holes, smt fuse, on board USB socket & separate button options. But bigger than I would like, though small for the power , I would rather loose the buttons to reduce the size, but that will never happen as this is designed to pop into a box on production line as easily as possible, which is a good thing making it cheaper and more reliable for mass production.

Roll on the cut down version I hope they will release after this, hope for a small board using a single 18650, but think the 3S lipo is a good idea for 200 W.

Offline doobedoobedo

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2015, 01:51:08 PM »
The built in balance charging mentioned. Surely it's not through the USB port? or???

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2015, 02:03:04 PM »
The balancer connector is at the very bottom...4-pin JST XH...I think?

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2015, 02:23:22 PM »
Yes but that's just a balance connector to plug the battery in to. How does the power come in to charge it?

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2015, 02:34:28 PM »
Micro USB port...right above it, mounted to the board.

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2015, 03:56:04 PM »
If you notice I'm not saying much for fear of disclosing something I shouldn't. Soon

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2015, 04:03:52 PM »
Oh I thought you guys got the go-ahead already?

There's a lot to cover for sure, the software alone is probably gonna be mind-bending...hm?

Offline VapingBad

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2015, 04:06:49 PM »
Busardo has touched on some of the sw features http://www.tasteyourjuice.com/wordpress/2015/06/12/the-cats-dna-is-out-of-the-bag/, so that much is out of the bag.

Offline CraigHB

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2015, 05:29:09 PM »
I don't think it's so much fear mongering about the LiPo packs.  They have a high incidence of failure.  They are designed for model applications, not e-cigs.  The hard round cells are much safer, especially for high outputs.  Being also into RC models myself and spending time on forums covering that topic I see too many incidents with the LiPo packs.

Lipos in of themselves are not particularly hazardous, but the high discharge rates like 40 to 90C can release a lot of energy all at once.  When they go up, they really go up.  For e-cigs it's better to stick to the smaller 1S lipos 20C and under, they're not as volatile.  Even so the hard rounds cells are a lot safer with less incidence of failure.

Even the RC modelers complain about the safety issues with high discharge LiPo packs.  Some of them have even gone to using 18650 packs.  For aircraft it takes a big model to fly an 18650 pack since they're usually 6 to 12S (6 to 12 cells in series) and require parallel sets to provide the current demand.  That makes for a big heavy battery.  I don't fly any large models (I'm into aircraft), but that's something I would consider myself if I did.  The high discharge packs are that troublesome.

Even the fact there's e-cig mods out there that require a pack like that is pretty over the top in my book.  Vaping with power levels that high seems extreme to me.  It's not just the battery, having that much power in your hand and next to your face can give you trouble if there's any electrical problem.

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2015, 05:37:18 PM »
Thanks Craig...  :thumbsup:

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2015, 05:39:55 PM »
From what I have read the DNA200 will have separate cell monitoring and they have always been good at trying to avoid over-stressing & over-discharging batteries.  How well does you not techie user up and down balance series cylindrical batteries, if you need the power form multiple batteries this seem a good way to go and you can wirw 3 18650 to it.  There are concerns with lipos and physical damage, but with care it seems like a reasonable way to behave to me YMMV.

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2015, 07:06:41 PM »
A big part of the safety issue with LiPo versus high drain 18650 comes down to quality control and safety in design.  The issue of safety with any Li-Ion battery is more about the quality and design of the cell rather than the abuse it may or may not have to suffer.

Big name high drain 18650s are produced for a wide range of applications with safety being a top priority.  This is not the case for LiPos.  The majority of LiPos are produced for a specific application (powered models) with more of an emphasis on performance than safety.  LiPos are used in other applications as well and they can range quite a bit in safety depending on how they are sourced (OEM or retail).  However, LiPos people buy for e-cigs are most commonly over-the-counter ones sold for powered models.

Physically speaking, the chemistry is less volatile for the lithium manganese based round cells compared to the lithium polymer chemistry of the (typically) flat cells.  The volatility for LiPo is between LiCo and LiMn.  However there is also the fact that a LiPo is typically encased in a thick foil where a hard round cell is contained in a much more robust steel shell. 

Typical over-the-counter LiPos have a poor safety record.  They suffer a lot of "on the bench" failures during charging especially.  I have yet to hear of a quality high drain round cell bursting into flames.  It happens with LiPos a lot more than you would expect based solely on the difference in chemistry.  It simply comes down to the difference in quality and design between the big name high drain 18650s and the typical retail LiPos.  Though the LiPos can deliver much higher current demands and do it efficiently, they are not produced with stringent safety standards like the big name 18650s.

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2015, 07:18:40 PM »
From what I have read the DNA200 will have separate cell monitoring....

And now I'm wondering just how advanced this board could be?

Can it separate each cell giving the user a choice of 1, 2 or all 3 cells?

« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 02:27:20 PM by timesarerough »

Offline ambivalent

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2015, 07:32:44 PM »
If I was to buy one of these things i'd certainly be looking for a mod with an XT60 connector so that I could remove the battery to charge it relatively safely in a charge bag with a proper lipo charger. Anything with a decent sized lipo charged via a regular usb port is gonna take hours to charge and i would not want to leave such a thing unattended like that.

I doubt that the common production models will factor in the bulk of such a connector though and will generally rely on the USB port in favor of the smallest mods they can manage.

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2015, 07:36:26 PM »
A big part of the safety issue with LiPo versus high drain 18650 comes down to quality control and safety in design.  The issue of safety with any Li-Ion battery is more about the quality and design of the cell rather than the abuse it may or may not have to suffer.

Big name high drain 18650s are produced for a wide range of applications with safety being a top priority.  This is not the case for LiPos.  The majority of LiPos are produced for a specific application (powered models) with more of an emphasis on performance than safety.  LiPos are used in other applications as well and they can range quite a bit in safety depending on how they are sourced (OEM or retail).  However, LiPos people buy for e-cigs are most commonly over-the-counter ones sold for powered models.

Physically speaking, the chemistry is less volatile for the lithium manganese based round cells compared to the lithium polymer chemistry of the (typically) flat cells.  The volatility for LiPo is between LiCo and LiMn.  However there is also the fact that a LiPo is typically encased in a thick foil where a hard round cell is contained in a much more robust steel shell. 

Typical over-the-counter LiPos have a poor safety record.  They suffer a lot of "on the bench" failures during charging especially.  I have yet to hear of a quality high drain round cell bursting into flames.  It happens with LiPos a lot more than you would expect based solely on the difference in chemistry.  It simply comes down to the difference in quality and design between the big name high drain 18650s and the typical retail LiPos.  Though the LiPos can deliver much higher current demands and do it efficiently, they are not produced with stringent safety standards like the big name 18650s.
Yes LiPos are vulnerable to puncture and charging failure, model planes and cars crash and take heavy impacts frequently. Modellers also tend to charge at very high rates and run flat out for extended periods of time. All this takes it's toll on their packs.

I'd argue that using a high power pack at far lower than it's rated maximum and charging it responsibly at 1C, encasing it securely in a mod (no rattling about) is about as nice a life as a LiPo can have and will ensure that it has minimal chance of failure.

It's only ever abused packs that you hear of catching fire, if they spontaneously combusted regularly the hobbyking warehouse would have been razed to the ground several times over.

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2015, 08:03:42 PM »
Hey D?

Since the software is being discussed elsewhere, is any of this data being shared directly with Evolv or is it saved to your HDD and only accessible by the user?

Do you need to sign-up any kind of an account through Evolv to use the software?

Reading discussions about setting the TCR's for different wires and then having to 'download' each new TCR before you can start using that wire...made me think that Evolv may be recording this data from users.

Is that the case?

And if I'm understanding it correctly, having to connect your device to your computer and download the new TCR before you can use that wire seems like a hassle....and bears the question why there wouldn't be any saved presets on the board?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 08:08:04 PM by timesarerough »

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2015, 09:07:18 PM »
The bigger half of the industry is lipo;  Ego's, analog likes, Mvp's the biggest sellers in ecig are using lipo's daily..

I can understand a concern but the ecig industry has thrived safely with lipo batts.

Good enclosure, good battery monitoring, proper batt amp rate and it should be of the safer vape mods around.

If lipo's were that huge a concern the Ego and analog markets woulda hurt the ecig industry possibly if that dangerous..
Buy a proepr lipo and have a great vape lol..

If your on box modders or buck regs on fb they have made stairstepped battery sleds that take 18650's for 3s mods allowing smaller mod box use.  So if concerned about size and lipo's there are great options..

Ti has some really cool micro chargers up to 8s that monitor every single fluctuation in temp, voltage, etc.  and alarms up the wazoo.  If Evolv has anything like Ti's chips this should be a great safe  mod and from the small tidbits here and there it does,  it will even check the continuity in the body of the mod, thats really kewl..
 So when you build it you will know you have a loss somewhere in thruput and where its at ...  I guess lol..

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2015, 10:07:33 PM »
I can understand a concern but the ecig industry has thrived safely with lipo batts.

I think that there's a lot of peeps missing very valid points.

The lipos used by factories building e-cigs are designed specifically for vaping gear and more importantly, they're made by professionals using enclosures and electronics specially made for their products and they're CE & RoHS certified. They're also only single cell packs of 3.6V and not 11.1V

And like Craig pointed out, these packs were not made for vaping gear. They're designed for RC applications.

Now how many modders have those same check and balances as do certified factories in China?

0

Type in "exploding RC" into a YouTube search and ya know how many results it tells you?

"About 36,100 results"

Type in "exploding lipo"

Results?

"About 31,800 results"

Type in "exploding IMR"

Results?

"About 2,030 results"

Type in "exploding e-cig"

Results?

"About 32,400 results"


Now obviously these number are not gonna be accurate, but it's a good reference point.

Lipo or IMR...which is safer?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 10:12:14 PM by timesarerough »

Offline mamu

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2015, 10:34:47 PM »
Anyone who doesn't have a healthy *fear* of the volatile nature of ANY battery is uneducated and most likely one to abuse the precautions of using a battery.  ANY battery can explode, but the lipo battery is not as likely to burst into flames like the ion based battery.  And believe it or not, a lot of people would say the lipo based battery is safer than the ion based battery.

Series lipo packs is not regulated to the RC world anymore.  A LOT of consumer devices are using and have been using for some years now series lipo packs - from notebooks to power banks to power tools. 

Quite a few modders have been modding with 2S and 3S lipo packs over these last few years with not one report of harm to self, fire, or explosion - that I have read about anyway.  I've read more about cylindrical batts shooting across the room or blowing out someone's teeth than I have with lipo batts becoming volatile or harming someone.  Just look at that one vape expo disaster.

So here we have a modder's board developed by one of the most - if not THE most - safety conscience companies that will use a 3S lipo pack.  Extensive built-in safety balances and checks are onboard as well as monitored in a software-based venue.  There is individual cell monitoring, cell balancing, and shut-down if ANY cell becomes damaged, unstable, or imbalanced.

Yes, of course, we're dealing with a flat battery with a thin foil package and high energy density.  Yes, of course, you should be cautious and aware of the hazards.  Yes, of course, you should consider the nature of the batts when deciding on an enclosure or designing an enclosure.  But I tell ya, some of the posts I've been reading here and also at FB - and yes what I call fear mongering - with Evolv putting out a board that requires a 3S lipo pack leaves me shaking my head.

I remember the omg you're using stacked batteries?  You're going to blow your face off.  Yeah, that... and this was when I first started vaping with devices like the Prodigy or GG in which I stacked the batts.  Who doesn't use stacked batteries nowadays and think nothing of it?  All our buck converters require stacked - series - batteries.   The high amp converters require 3S.  This is common practice nowadays for modders to work with both cylindrical series batts as well as lipo series batts. 

We had fear mongering back then with using stacked batts and it continues on with using stacked lipo packs.  Just like with cheap China low-quality 18650 batts, if you use cheap China low-quality lipo packs, you get what you get.

The times are constantly changing, from 6 years ago, to 3 years ago, to today.  Pay attention people lol.


 

Offline Visus

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2015, 10:50:17 PM »
Your concerns are uber valid,  now mine as well wow thats a lot of hits
But do realize people make those vids with old cells and its kewl to blow them up,  but still..  oh_my:
lots of lipo hardcase 555/Raptor mods out there and no horror stories  have seen
but I agree wow IMR's ftw for most of us amateur builders using off the shelf parts with no true rated custom case
Theres ebikes and scooters powertools etc. using lipo's and no boom they have great battery casing/monitoring and that is the crucial question you asked earlier.

They say with the software you can dial in UVLO,  now that is cool.  lol

Thats a lot of yt hits
 freaked_out:

BTW in rc weight issues usually mean having a battery strap that is either very thin plastic catch area or a clothed rubber strap..   R/c has the worse battery containment area of anything lol the batts while semi-strapped down they will move/shift in many instances and go boom..  I use straps never had an issue but I am that guy who is that guy,  The legend (delusional)lol..
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 10:57:48 PM by Visus »

Offline CraigHB

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2015, 02:21:26 AM »
Well the point can be argued forever probably, but the quality high drain 18650s are way safer than the hobby LiPos like the one pictured in post #11.  Nothing will ever my change my mind about that.  I've read of way too many horror stories with them.  These are not inexperienced people using them.  They know what they're doing.  Granted they often charge and discharge at high rates for hobby applications, but that's not always the case.  I've heard of them going up just sitting on a bench powering a receiver or freewheeling a motor which is a nothing load.

That is a good argument to say if they were so hazardous they would have razed the HobbyKing warehouse a number of times by now, but they rarely fail right out of the factory with a storage charge on them.   There's a couple situations where they tend to fail at a much higher frequency.  One is during charging of course and the other is after a charge when they have peak voltage at the terminals. 

The majority of failures are related to factory defects that don't make themselves evident sitting in a warehouse.  After they've had a cycle or two and are at peak charge discharging or charging is when a fault causing failure tends to surface.  I have yet to hear of a battery fire with one of the quality high drain 18650s.  I've heard of lots of 18650 failures, but they tend to be cheap standard cells.  I've yet to hear of one with a Sony, Samsung, or LG high drain cell.

LiPos used in things like tablets and cell phones are not the same as the LiPo batteries sold by hobby shops.  Laptops tend to use 18650 packs, but some may use LiPos.  The ones in consumer devices are usually prismatic cells that are in a hard case and have a much lower failure rate.  Take a quick look at the battery in your phone and you'll see what I mean.  They're typically produced to OEM specs with higher quality control and additional safety considerations.  I can't speak for the LiPos used in commercial e-cig mods since they can vary.  However, I have read of issues with battery fires before.  Not too long ago there was a commercial e-cig model that had to recalled because of that.

Oh, one additional comment.  The last RC transmitter I bought had a NiMH or LiPo option.  I took the NiMH option.  If they ever invent a non-flammable battery that performs as good as a Li-Ion, I'll be the first to use it.  I don't like Li-Ion batteries much, but for high outputs and small size there's really no option.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 02:45:21 AM by CraigHB »

Offline Visus

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2015, 03:52:29 AM »
18650 not to shabby either but will they handle the rumored 200w .08 50 amp load?
Is this why the need for lipo   this is great,  love new boards ..
Meh'   

No guesses whats on the board is that all custom made? 
It looks uber high tech whoa thats some mapping

Been vapin 3s long time now,  there are safer ways to vape 3s at 200 watts lol..  freaked_out:

Killer wands gets tiring changing batts when at home.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 04:11:02 AM by Visus »

Offline ambivalent

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2015, 06:53:14 AM »
But that woudn't be a 50 amp load on the batts,  only a 50A output to the atty,  the batts are providing power from at least 11v supply so only about 18A load on them. Correct me if I'm wrong pls.

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2015, 12:13:00 PM »
The times are constantly changing, from 6 years ago, to 3 years ago, to today.  Pay attention people lol.

Back at ya... :)

This is an actual quote posted this morning from someone wanting to build one...

"since there is all of this Lipo talk on here, can somebody either A) Show me a place as to where i can learn more about them, without having to read a 500 page book about them or B) Give me a crash course in them.

i have been wanting to tinker with them, but so far al of the lipos i have ever seen(all be it very few) have always been less than 200mAh, or the size of my fist, which is not something comfy to carry around with me.

and the other thing i had head is that charging them vs. the imr's we use now is extremely more dangerous"


Signed....

Joe Average


Peeps just like this guy will be attempting to build these mods, likely using a printed enclosure, and also likely will wind up in the classifieds or eBay at some point.

Having a plug-n-play board and battery, Joe Average won't even bother trying to learn about the lipo pack that he's going to install into it, so when it comes time that he wants to sell it....he won't know anything and his sucker won't know anything.

A lipo is only safe when the user knows that it's NOT a safe battery.


It's not always a good idea to produce a DIY project that is too easy to make, cuz then you attract everybody!

Make it more difficult and you wipe out Joe Average and/or you force the builder to learn substantially more about the build and the parts being used to make it.....and that's a good thing, especially considering the inherent dangers of this particular build.

Now....would you buy what he builds?

Probably not, but somebody else will.


Big Brother already has too much ammunition for passing draconian deeming laws, but the moment somebody DIES or is maimed from a home-made bomb....it's all over for everybody.

And who will be blamed?

Evolv....

And who will suffer?

All vapers....

Offline mamu

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2015, 01:59:08 PM »
I don't care about Joe Average.  I don't care what he does and it's not my job, or anyone's, to educate him.

If Joe Average wants to mod the onus is on him to educate himself.  If he doesn't, and goes about building and then selling an unsafe mod, the onus is on him if his customer gets hurt.

I deeply care about what I do and am fully responsible for what I do.  Period.  When I put a mod in someone's hand, I am responsible, not anyone else.  From the get-go I knew nothing about modding with electronics.  I essentially knew nothing about batteries.  There's still a huge amount I don't know or understand, but I educate myself and learn as I go.  There's a huge resource of priceless information on google, on youtube, here at breaktru's place, at FB, and other places that is there for the grabbing.  I have zero tolerance for the lazy people who feel they are entitled.

You act like someone is forcing you into something.  If you feel lipo packs are unsafe, don't freakin use em.  Simple as that.  No need to go on and on about it.

The problem with government - and many people like you - is you want control over what others do.  You want to babysit and nanny state them to death.  I am not responsible for what others do and I def won't let others control my actions when it comes to modding.

If you want to educate the world about how unsafe and hazardous you feel lipo packs are, then feel free to do so, but your continuing fear mongering is wasted on me.  :)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 02:08:23 PM by mamu »

Offline Visus

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2015, 02:13:04 PM »
But that woudn't be a 50 amp load on the batts,  only a 50A output to the atty,  the batts are providing power from at least 11v supply so only about 18A load on them. Correct me if I'm wrong pls.

I like your maths that means 18650's will be fine...

What's the equation for the load to the regulator? 

Awesome

Realistically only but a select few will ever need the full load but a few silly times, most of us know its hellfire hot and wont be revisited much..  100 watts is hellfire hawt but 200 is OMG I cannot believe its this hot, is my tongue on fire lol..

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2015, 02:48:27 PM »
You act like someone is forcing you into something.  If you feel lipo packs are unsafe, don't freakin use em.  Simple as that.  No need to go on and on about it.

You act like you're being attacked, Mamu...

Factually, it's the other way around isn't it?

But in case you haven't noticed, this isn't about you. I could care less what you build and I'm sure that many others feel the same.

I don't care about Joe Average.

I'm not in the least bit surprised, but somebody like me does care.

I don't care what he does and it's not my job, or anyone's, to educate him.

And I couldn't disagree more. Someone is going to be responsible for Joe Idiot if he harms himself or anyone else and it'll likely be the party that gave him the means of creating the device in the first place.

No need to go on and on about it.

Well obviously I do when someone like you STILL doesn't get it?

This is not about you, it never was....this is about peeps that don't know what they're doing!

I am not responsible for what others do and I def won't let others control my actions when it comes to modding.

(eyeroll)....here we go again, Me, me, me...

....but your continuing fear mongering is wasted on me.

Geeez, wake up.

  Pay attention people lol.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 03:15:34 PM by timesarerough »

Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2015, 03:42:21 PM »
Out of curiosity D....

Did the beta include testing to see what would happen if the board failed?

Or more specifically...if the balancer failed?

And is there a way for a 'garage modder' to actually test the functionality of the board before hooking it up to a 35C 3S pack? (A: yes, external power supply)

I know that it's unlikely that a board would be defective right out of the box, but the 40 did have a lot of issues on it's beta release.

But back to my question D...

This is the basic information that has been published elsewhere, but I've yet to see what (if any) are the fail-safes if the board malfunctions or fails.

Unlikely to happen immediately, but it will eventually fail...somewhere.

In the event it does, did the beta team test any board failure scenarios?

And if so, what are those scenarios and the fail-safe's in place for them?

One question has been answered, an external power supply can be used.

__________________________________________________________________

Input voltage requirement 9-12.6vdc
Input current requirement 23A
Output voltage 9vdc
Max Output current 50A continuous (55A instantaneous)
Batteries supported: 3s Lipo - 3S LifePO4 - External Power Supply, and Evolv engineers speculate that 3 high quality 18650s should work.

No wattage presets. Total scroll time from 1w to 200w was 20seconds, with it accelerating the scroll rate after the first few tenths.

You can use multiple wire types. The only TCR that is preprogrammed is the NI200 however you can add your own TCR. Think of it as a graph. On the Y axis you have resistivity on a scale of 0.1 to 10, on the X axis you have Temp on a scale of -100 to 800F. You input different points into that plot to represent the TCR. You can put as many points in the curve as you like, but the curve has to be ascending. You can save/load your curves to/from csv files, but not as a preset.

The software is by far the most customizable solution I have seen to date from any board Mfg. There are something like 80+ variables that you can customize.
Battery Meter, Error Flashes, Orientation, Brightness (active, idle, & charging), Fade, Active Time, Battery Chemistry, Battery Cutoff, Ohm lock range, Preheat Time/strength, and much more are customizable.
Customizable screens. There are 20 different possible screens generated by the board. You can change them to say or look however you want within the limitations of a 128x32 mono screen. Don’t like the term “Stealth Mode” change it to “Hiding” or whatever.
You have 3 pieces of information you can display on the left of the DNA screen, and another 3 while charging, and you can choose any of 10 different variables to display there, like ohms, voltage, temp, etc.
There are several built-in analyzer tools.

· Device monitor
o This is real sweet! It monitors over 20 variables in realtime and shows them numerically as well as allowing to graph as many of them as you want. The graphs updates every second, maybe less.

· Atomizer Analyzer
o Monitors your atty in realtime to allow to observe resistance stability.

· Case Analyzer
o Monitors several variables within your enclosure to predict performance under various charging situations.

The Balancing connector at the bottom is a "JST-XH".
Evolv is recommending a minimum of a 25A connector for the battery +/- connector.
The fave amongst the Evolv engineers is the XT30 connector.


____________________________________________________________


My main concern is if the balancer fails.

Will the user know it via a warning on the device?

Or will the user have to connect it to their PC?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 02:23:46 PM by timesarerough »

Offline mamu

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2015, 03:54:18 PM »
Someone is going to be responsible for Joe Idiot if he harms himself or anyone else and it'll likely be the party that gave him the means of creating the device in the first place.

It won't be the first time, or the last, that an irresponsible modder has built an unsafe mod and no one is responsible for that but the modder who made the mod.  You act like this is a new thing with the advent of the DNA200.

If you think you can protect/prevent the stoopids from doing the stupid, then go for it.

We're here to help,advise, and educate when people ask, but that's all we can do.  We can't stop people from doing what people do.

Look, from the get-go you came here to bash the DNA200....

ugh - I'm done with this.


Offline timesarerough

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Re: DNA 200 is Coming
« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2015, 04:59:47 PM »
If you think you can protect/prevent the stoopids from doing the stupid, then go for it.

A wise woman once said...

I don't care what he does and it's not my job...

I agree, it's not my job either. But I'll try my best, if I'm able, to help make sure that Joe Idiot is fully aware of the dangers involved when building this particular device.

And it's very likely that he'd wouldn't know what to ask...except maybe "Where can I buy it and how much is it?"

So it's gonna be up to the people that care about Joe Idiot to ask for him....and maybe he'll read it?

The wise woman also said...

When I put a mod in someone's hand, I am responsible, not anyone else.

Correct...and you just proved my point.

Who's gonna be responsible for giving Joe Idiot the means to create this device?


Realistically, the DIY DNA=X up to this point is not an issue since they're based on a single cell set-up where high output hybrid IMR cells are needed and/or preferred. We already know that the dangers are minimal when using modern hybrid IMR's, but battery safety is still a minor concern.

But, the build is not for the uneducated. It would be very difficult for Joe Idiot to build a DNA=X mod successfully. But even if he attempted it and screwed up somewhere, would he be in any real danger? Probably not, if he's using a hybrid IMR or a standard IMR. The likelihood of some kind of explosion would be very minimal, if not non-exitant?

But the 200....is a whole new egg and is virtually plug'n'play, some assembly required + 35C RC Lipo (capacity of choice).

What are the dangers that Joe Idiot will be facing if he screws up somewhere in the build?

And these are the questions that I asking.


That's all that I'm doing Mamu....

What you see as "bashing the 200" is being looked at from the wrong POV.

While many people don't like how I do things, they're probably not aware of my intent.

You don't have to like me, many don't....and you'll either love me or hate me, there's no in between.

But in the end, I care deeply about people that I never met...every single day.

And those that know me..KNOW this to be true.

And those that don't know me...well


« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 05:55:45 PM by timesarerough »

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