Author Topic: Tinkering with the Naos Raptor - 20A, 120W dc/dc converter... (Read 394786 times)

jacobprescott · « **Reply #500 on:** January 22, 2015, 04:17:20 PM »

By the way what id the lowest setting it will go to in v/w as i know maximum 6 volts but whats the minimum?

doobedoobedo · « **Reply #501 on:** January 22, 2015, 05:38:58 PM »

0.69V

jacobprescott · « **Reply #502 on:** January 23, 2015, 09:33:36 AM »

Thanks, do you know what the purpose of the 22uf capacitors on the Naos Raptor 20a circuit is?

doobedoobedo · « **Reply #503 on:** January 23, 2015, 09:53:52 AM »

They help stabilise the input.

CraigHB · « **Reply #504 on:** January 23, 2015, 05:23:46 PM »

Those are required input filter capacitors. The way a buck converter works is it loads the inductor with a high frequency PWM pulse. So the load is cycling on the battery at a high frequency. Input capacitors provide the energy to smooth out voltage to keep things stable. Otherwise input voltage will pulse with loading on the inductor. Digital electronics can have issue with unstable supply voltage, they hate sudden variations in supply voltage. The PWM controller on that board is a digital device, they all are.

Most step-down modules provide the input capacitors already on the circuit board. The Raptor requires you add them yourself. Some require external caps some don't, just depends on the module.

jacobprescott · « **Reply #505 on:** January 23, 2015, 05:39:12 PM »

Great in-depth explanation Craig, just what i was hoping for, thanks man.

CraigHB · « **Reply #506 on:** January 23, 2015, 05:43:11 PM »

welcome

Visus · « **Reply #507 on:** January 23, 2015, 06:03:31 PM »

Yeah that made it into memory Craig.
I knew they stabled input but didn't know why/how at the reg.

jacobprescott · « **Reply #508 on:** February 01, 2015, 12:21:55 PM »

Quote from: CraigHB on January 23, 2015, 05:23:46 PM

Those are required input filter capacitors. The way a buck converter works is it loads the inductor with a high frequency PWM pulse. So the load is cycling on the battery at a high frequency. Input capacitors provide the energy to smooth out voltage to keep things stable. Otherwise input voltage will pulse with loading on the inductor. Digital electronics can have issue with unstable supply voltage, they hate sudden variations in supply voltage. The PWM controller on that board is a digital device, they all are.

Most step-down modules provide the input capacitors already on the circuit board. The Raptor requires you add them yourself. Some require external caps some don't, just depends on the module.

I was wondering, what is the reason that we use 2x22uf capacitors in parallel with each other?

CraigHB · « **Reply #509 on:** February 01, 2015, 01:16:18 PM »

It halves the "ESR" and doubles the capacitance. ESR stands for equivalent series resistance and is just what it sounds like, a resistor in series with the capacitor. All conductors have resistance and capacitors are no different. Resistance "damps" the effect of the capacitor requiring more capacitance to do the same job. Ceramic caps have one significant advantage in the they have the lowest ESR, however they are limited in the amount of capacitance value. Using two 22uF caps in parallel is equal to one 44uF cap and is cheaper than a single 44uF cermic cap. There's some other reasons to use ceramic arrays over single electrolytics such as size. Generally it provides the best performance with the least size and reduced cost.

jacobprescott · « **Reply #510 on:** February 01, 2015, 04:38:17 PM »

Thank you again for your very impressive knowledge on the topic, i could and will learn a lot from you guys.

P.S- Sorry i don't know how to delete previous posts...

minamato · « **Reply #511 on:** February 21, 2015, 11:48:49 PM »

hey all! i hope i get an answer as this thread seems to have been dead for a few months! i'm looking at building a raptor box and i have designed 2 pcbs, based on Rico's design and mamu's latest diagram, to mount the parts in my box and written out a parts list. i was hoping you could check my scematics/shopping list and tell me what you thought. thanks!

pcb design:

the control board containing the POT, the Voltage display and the Vin/Vout switch.

the power board, containing the resistors, the capacitors, the chip, the N-FET and the master switch.

the P-FET will be wired directly to the fire switch.

Shopping list:

chip: NAOS Raptor 20A
link: http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?vendor=0&keywords=NSR020A0X43Z

510 connector: FDV v4 low profile short
link: http://www.fatdaddyvapes.com/shop.html

fire button: A13040500UX0141
link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ENUDD0W/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3AZW35WSKZ6W8

master switch: L202011MS02Q
link: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=L202011MS02Qvirtualkey61170000virtualkey611-L202011MS02Q

voltage switch: 1103M2S3CQE2
link: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=1103M2S3CQE2virtualkey61170000virtualkey611-1103M2S3CQE2

Zener diode: 1N5232B-TR
link: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1N5232B-TR/1N5232BVSCT-ND/3104346

fuses: RGEF1000
link: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/RGEF1000/RGEF1000HF-ND/5029771

resistors:
   4.7K?: CF14JT4K70CT-ND,
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=167024790&uq=635601514913109330&CSRT=2607944548175329541
   47K?: CF14JT47K0CT-ND,
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=167024791&uq=635601514913109330&CSRT=2607944548175329541,
   220?: CF14JT220RCT-ND,
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=167024788&uq=635601514913109330&CSRT=2607944548175329541

capacitors: TAP226K016CCS
link: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=TAP226K016CCSvirtualkey58110000virtualkey581-TAP226K016CCS

N-FET: IRLB8743PBF-ND
link: http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=167024787&uq=635601514913109330&CSRT=2607944548175329541

P-FET: IPD042P03L3 G
link: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=IPD042P03L3_Gvirtualkey63830000virtualkey726-IPD042P03L3G

potentiometer: 93PR200LF
link: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=93PR200LFvirtualkey57700000virtualkey858-93PR200LF

voltage display: SMAKN® Blue 0.28" Mini 2 Wire DC Voltmeter 2.50~30v
link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00M50SEYC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2OCOGC9B25845

case: Hammond 1590B

magnets: Neodymium Magnets 1/4 x 1/8 inch Disc N48
link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008PGMG58/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2W1NLLA67T8X2

thanks again!

onefstsnake · « **Reply #512 on:** March 03, 2015, 12:56:42 AM »

Figured I'd post my finished box. Not pretty inside but it works great. Been using it for about 6 months now everyday. I've actually worn out the switch to where it doesn't always fire. Will be replacing it this week.

Unmatched batteries were just for testing.

Still haven't put magnets in it lol.

Breaktru · « **Reply #513 on:** March 03, 2015, 08:25:32 AM »

Quote from: onefstsnake on March 03, 2015, 12:56:42 AM

Figured I'd post my finished box. Not pretty inside but it works great. Been using it for about 6 months now everyday.

Congrats

onefstsnake · « **Reply #514 on:** March 03, 2015, 10:10:42 AM »

Thanks for all the help. The wife wants one now but in a smaller package and less wattage. Maybe a good okr box

minamato · « **Reply #515 on:** March 03, 2015, 04:39:27 PM »

Ok, well I'm going to go ahead with this build once my parts get here. If by chance it will not work or is unsafe for some reason I cannot fathom, please, let me know. Nice lookin mods all, btw.
Edit: and here it is!!

wa9w00d · « **Reply #516 on:** March 27, 2015, 07:23:26 PM »

Hey minamato. Nice looking mod. Congratulations!

So hows she vape?

Wayne

minamato · « **Reply #517 on:** March 27, 2015, 07:54:12 PM »

Thanks Wayne! Like a beast. My god. I over nic'd myself in my excitement lol
Although I only get 5.1V under load set at max...too much wire? Also, I wired my pot backwards so 0 is 100. Which is annoying but not critical. Oh well, there's always next time!

wa9w00d · « **Reply #518 on:** March 27, 2015, 08:15:15 PM »

Glad you're enjoying it!

Do keep a close eye on it though. If you are dropping .9 volt under load (assuming the batteries are holding up) that could be up to 18 watts of heat somewhere where you don't want it. Not trying to alarm you or anything, just want to point out that that voltage has to drop somewhere, and that mean heat.

What is your atomizer resistance when you see this drop? ( you do get a full 6 volts unloaded, right?)

Wayne

minamato · « **Reply #519 on:** March 27, 2015, 09:09:08 PM »

My atty is .3 ohms. I hadn't tested my unloaded voltage until just now but it reads 4.99... And now when I screw my atty back on the chip buzzes if I turn the dial past 75% ( the screen will read around 4.5 V when it doesn't buzz. If it's buzzing the screen just turns off). Could I have a bad voltage meter?
Also, I poked around inside while firing and didn't notice any heat from any of the components...the batteries are brand new.
Thanks for helping me iron out these few remaining wrinkles

wa9w00d · « **Reply #520 on:** March 27, 2015, 09:27:16 PM »

Huh. Well, .3 ohms should be about 80 watts at about 5 volts, so the chip itself should handle that. If you can't go above about 5 volts unloaded, that's actually a good thing here, it means you aren't actually dropping voltage somewhere along the way.

Of course, you should be able to get 6 volts out, if the select resistance is of a proper value. Please don't take offense at this question, but how confident are you about your soldering?

Oh, and you might want to check it's behavior with a less taxing load, something over an ohm maybe.

Wayne

minamato · « **Reply #521 on:** March 27, 2015, 09:47:15 PM »

Honestly, not 100% confident that my soldering is awesome. No offence taken. You think I have a loose connection somewhere?

wa9w00d · « **Reply #522 on:** March 27, 2015, 10:14:51 PM »

Heh. I was micro miniature repair certified in the military many years ago, but that just means I know more ways to screw up.

Hard to say for sure where (or even how many) potential issues might be lurking here. If it were me, I think I would first want to find out why I couldn't get the full 6 volts out without a load applied. You already said that you had the pot backwards, so maybe disconnect there and check the resistance of the pot and the offset resistor? Not even familiar with the 20 amp Raptor, but if it's like the 10 amp board, the offset should be 220 ohms max, and the pot should swing from zero to 200 ohms max.

If you can't get it to behave without a load, you can't expect it to improve when loaded.

Wayne

minamato · « **Reply #523 on:** March 27, 2015, 10:20:16 PM »

Alright lol, debugging time it is then. Thanks.

wa9w00d · « **Reply #524 on:** March 27, 2015, 10:28:16 PM »

No problem, minamato. headed for the bed for now, but I'll check back.

Wayne

minamato · « **Reply #525 on:** March 30, 2015, 07:34:15 PM »

Ok, I think I figured out what it was. My batteries were getting low on charge and the voltage under load was dropping below the cutoff. Does that make sense? I seems to work perfectly with fresh batteries. Except still no 6V only 5.1...haven't really tried to tackle that one because it's more power than I need even at the max I have.

wa9w00d · « **Reply #526 on:** March 30, 2015, 07:48:43 PM »

Yeah, it does. I kind of suspected that. And the 5.1 top isn't an issue as long as there isn't a (large) drop between unloaded and loaded. About the only thing I would say is that LiPo batteries much prefer being charged often to being drained down (that's my understanding,anyway).

Glad there aren't any real problems.

Wayne

eveshka · « **Reply #527 on:** April 09, 2015, 04:17:29 AM »

Another nice build idea.

spasmenokarabi · « **Reply #528 on:** April 27, 2015, 06:23:11 AM »

I am reading this about Naos Raptor for a few days and I am planning to make one.
The only part that it is not available is d-pack IPD042P03L3G. So, is there any alternative to this? I would prefered one from mouser to keep low the total cost.
Thank you.

mamu · « **Reply #529 on:** April 27, 2015, 10:42:40 AM »

You can use the SUP75P03-07-E3 P-FET which is what I used before switching to the smaller dpak one. If space is at a premium in your mod and you need the smaller dpak sized P-FET, search for another one that has the same or similar specs as the IPD042P03L3G or SUP75P03-07-E3.

spasmenokarabi · « **Reply #530 on:** April 27, 2015, 02:55:40 PM »

Thank you for reply.
Can I use the "SPD50P03L G" instead of "IPD042P03L3G"?

mamu · « **Reply #531 on:** April 28, 2015, 01:22:49 PM »

Read the datasheet of the part you're wanting to substitute. If the specs are the same or similar to IPD042P03L3G, you're good to go.

jblack741 · « **Reply #532 on:** May 10, 2015, 02:36:41 AM »

Hi All,
This is my first post here and I've been following some of you on ECF and Reddit. I've just completed my third build and have collected the parts needed for a Raptor 120w. I'm not sure if I want to use aluminum or ABS for the box yet and since I have some time to think it over while I put the wiring package together, I like to get some input, also I'm undecided as to whether I want a dual 16650 or 26650. My other boxes, a DNA30, Dual 18650 MosFet and a Dual 26650 OKR T/10 are all aluminum and hydro-dipped. Anyway thanks to you all for the great efforts, work and tinkering that has allowed us/me to be a better modder, safer modder.

vapeviking · « **Reply #533 on:** June 07, 2015, 06:50:47 AM »

I've got all the parts for the no idle drain build but since this is my first raptor build i thought I'd breadboard it first and I've got a problem i can't figure out. When I "fire" it unloaded the v out on the voltmeter shows and changes when I adjust the pot BUT with an att come cred it will not fire at all! Anyone has any idea why this is?
Please help a first time raptor modder.

Visus · « **Reply #534 on:** June 07, 2015, 02:18:45 PM »

Bad 510 connection your maybe shorted there..

vapeviking · « **Reply #535 on:** June 07, 2015, 04:57:56 PM »

Quote from: Visus on June 07, 2015, 02:18:45 PM

Bad 510 connection your maybe shorted there..

It's not the 510 unfortunately, I did a basic breadboard without volt display p-fet or n-fet and then it fired.Would it make a difference if I soldered it instead of using long thin breadboard jumpers?

Breaktru · « **Reply #536 on:** June 07, 2015, 06:02:08 PM »

Breadboards can be the source of failure for connections. And when using heavy amps, it is best to wire directly w/ heavy short wire.

vapetech334 · « **Reply #537 on:** September 28, 2015, 12:07:54 PM »

Hey guys and gals, this is probably the wrong thread for this , it is very old but it seemed appropriate.
I recently built my 3rd raptor,20a pcb build,, I get my pcbs partially assembled from modpcb.. Ive,done,one with a volt meter and one with a mod meter and they,both worked, perfectly. This,time, I ordered the same parts and followed the same procedure. I just finished,it and when I added the vtc4s,and flipped,the lock switch,it started,firing,, but when I hit the kill switch, it kept going... Popped out a battery to stop,it
Ive,since tried 3 new momentary,switches,,2 fdv 510s, completely, desoldered and,and did it,again.. Same issue...I'm Woo confused..
macro shots of the entire board. Ignore,the sloppy wiring. I always freewore,and test beflre boxing,it.
Pleaae, help
Link
http://imgur.com/a/NBoSv

mamu · « **Reply #538 on:** June 20, 2016, 04:27:43 AM »

Anyone still making Raptor mods?

I took a break from making DNA mods this last year and made a fun 120W 20A Raptor mod - and that def satisfied me for the challenge of the build after the less challenging DNA build. I found I had actually missed this kind of build - adding caps, POT, resistors, PFET, fuses, etc. I kid you not lol I def missed it.

Converted a Cobra camo edition walkie talkie to a Raptor 20A, 120W mod with RPP, low voltage cutoff, and modmeter. I dremelled out the triple AA batt sled and inserted a 3D printed black ABS dual 18650 batt sled that I designed to fit in that area of the case. I designed a POT bezel/cradle and printed that in orange ABS - got lucky in that the orange ABS matched the orange buttons and side grips of the case. Also designed and 3D printed a black ABS panel/cradle for the modmeter and inserted that in the screen area of the case so that the screen area not filled by the display is blacked out. The only feature I kept from the walkie talkie was the flashlight... gotta have a flashlight lol.

Breaktru · « **Reply #539 on:** June 20, 2016, 05:32:12 AM »

Fantastically done mamu. Great to she you back and modding more challenging builds.

jeandbean · « **Reply #540 on:** June 21, 2016, 03:33:58 PM »

Great mod manu as usual

Visus · « **Reply #541 on:** July 02, 2016, 05:08:50 PM »

Woot Mamu thats great.

I also miss making mods but settled now at 50w max 30w daily vaping, the off the shelf mods calling me. Still vaping Ti chip mods and yet to buy an off the shelf but ya, "they have the cutest mini mods around out now and snazzy looking.."

I had a spur of bad luck, burned out three 08100 mods in two weeks because no rev bat protection oops.. Custom bat wrap confused me

..
Ok, ok, it was the wacky tobacky confusional type I got this

..

I did manufact with old atomizers a new mini water atomizer device for the other world of vaping, it would be a huge hit methinks literally

. Meh

Breaktru · « **Reply #542 on:** July 02, 2016, 05:28:34 PM »

I also miss modding the TI boards. Been getting the free beta testing mods and boards from evolv (DNA's).

Visus, how about putting on the battery polarity labels in the mod and also on the batteries. You can print them out from HERE
That's what I do.

dc99 · « **Reply #543 on:** July 04, 2016, 05:37:41 PM »

Well, I have totally gotton lazy. Been using the boards from here. Have not had any problems with any of them so far.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/app/878031628949465/?sk=app_189977524185

SDaddy · « **Reply #544 on:** July 05, 2016, 01:18:10 PM »

Quote from: dc99 on July 04, 2016, 05:37:41 PM

Well, I have totally gotton lazy. Been using the boards from here. Have not had any problems with any of them so far.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/app/878031628949465/?sk=app_189977524185

Tried those boards also. Can't get them low enough for the wife to vape on them. If the wife ain't happy......
Although Big Al states he will be lowing the low end output, I'm not sure I'll spend any more money on his brand.

I have the latest PWM that David4500 has let loose on the world and can make all I want!

david4500 · « **Reply #545 on:** July 11, 2016, 10:44:46 PM »

Have you had the chance to assemble one of those boards?

SDaddy · « **Reply #546 on:** July 12, 2016, 04:26:45 AM »

Quote from: david4500 on July 11, 2016, 10:44:46 PM

Have you had the chance to assemble one of those boards?

I have. It's working perfectly. Used it all day today (and still using it now). Seems to be a bit smoother than the DualParaMos V 1.4 although I feel the 6 connection points on the end are a tad too close for those of us that shake a bit now and then when soldering

. Managed to not to solder any of those points together yesterday and mounted it in a CNC G box with a 1500mAh 2S Lipo, which I will pass off to a friend next weekend. Tomorrow I'll be mounting 2 more sets , one for the wife and one for me. This board, like most of yours, adjusts low enough for her, and I can mount the board flat, up behind the 510 connection, without issue.