Author Topic: .44 mini Booster Box Mod Variable Voltage (Read 483782 times)

bobaganoosh · « **Reply #400 on:** September 20, 2013, 02:10:06 PM »

Quote from: Breaktru on September 20, 2013, 01:48:41 PM

The more steps the better. Ideally a 256 step would do. Finer voltage output tuning w/ more steps. You don't have to press the PB a hundred times. Just hold it depress to cycle through.
The pins and nomenclature are the same for the image DP in the attached......
Note: these DP's do not have a debounce circuit. It is added in the circuit below.....

32 step works fine for me, i don't need to increment in hundredths of volts.

So you can operate those without a signal, you just need to push and hold 1 button while pushing the other button to change wiper direction towards the high end. instead of just 1 button for up and 1 button for down.

hard to believe they phased out the 1869's as there doesnt seem to be a direct replacement for them, what a shame.

CraigHB · « **Reply #401 on:** September 20, 2013, 02:23:09 PM »

To use a part in an SOIC or MSOP package, you would need to use a breakout board like this. It is possible to solder components by hand with packages that small if you have the right tools and supplies. You would use a fine tip, fine wire solder, and some good magnification. There's some soldering tutorials that have been posted here that show how to do it. You can also do it easily using reflow soldering.

That's a less common debouncer configuration in the diagram, but that would work too. Attached is a debouncer I would typically use with a 3V supply, for a 5V supply I'd use 47K resistors, but it's not critical, just determines current loading, I like to keep it around 100uA.

Breaktru · « **Reply #402 on:** September 20, 2013, 04:30:22 PM »

Quote from: CraigHB on September 20, 2013, 02:23:09 PM

To use a part in an SOIC or MSOP package, you would need to use a breakout board like this. It is possible to solder components by hand with packages that small if you have the right tools and supplies. You would use a fine tip, fine wire solder, and some good magnification. There's some soldering tutorials that have been posted here that show how to do it. You can also do it easily using reflow soldering.

That's a less common debouncer configuration in the diagram, but that would work too. Attached is a debouncer I would typically use with a 3V supply, for a 5V supply I'd use 47K resistors, but it's not critical, just determines current loading, I like to keep it around 100uA.

Yeah the breakout boards are great. I have several in different format conversion styles in my parts bin.

I agree that the debounce circuit is less common. I have seen many like you show. The one I posted was from a Maxim engineer which was used with the Max5160 D.P.

methos · « **Reply #403 on:** September 20, 2013, 09:09:23 PM »

Awesome!!!! TY Craig! That's exactly what I needed! Great site btw. It has lots of toys:-)

Visus · « **Reply #404 on:** October 25, 2013, 07:28:58 PM »

Break is popularity with this boost mod

Seems they have your original config for this chip..
It is a sweet mod..
What is the voltage range with the 100k 10kset 100ktrim?

http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=kingkong4235&logNo=80137147070&redirect=Dlog&widgetTypeCall=true

Breaktru · « **Reply #405 on:** October 25, 2013, 07:39:02 PM »

Quote from: Visus on October 25, 2013, 07:28:58 PM

Break is popularity with this boost mod

Seems they have your original config for this chip..
It is a sweet mod..
What is the voltage range with the 100k 10kset 100ktrim?

http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=kingkong4235&logNo=80137147070&redirect=Dlog&widgetTypeCall=true

Wow nice find Visus. They have the very old schematics with the diode. Wonder where they found that old schematic.

Visus · « **Reply #406 on:** October 25, 2013, 07:56:54 PM »

I google image the chip to see how it was packaged by different people and that popped up I thought it was back here, nope---.
Break do you remember the voltage range with that set up? Radio shack is limited and carry the 100k and 10k not the 15k or the 4.7. I have the chips and the slow boat from china will be slow..

I am on the Table 2. PTN04050C Output Voltage Set-Point Resistor Values but your custom hack has me

trying to figure the Vout.

Breaktru · « **Reply #407 on:** October 25, 2013, 09:05:55 PM »

I can't recall what it was. The schematic says 3.2v to >6v but that can't be right.
You can get the resistors in 3 days, at least to NY it was 3 days, from digikey. I just place an order for more 4.7k and 15k resistors. 10 of each. Plus other junk. Shipping was only $2.94
15K part # RNF18FTD15K0CT-ND (10 cents)
4.7k part # S4.7KCACT-ND (9 cents)

Visus · « **Reply #408 on:** October 25, 2013, 09:43:43 PM »

has anyone ever told you your awesome.
well you would be if you built my boxes and held and pushed the button
so your the only semi driving cool..

doobedoobedo · « **Reply #409 on:** January 01, 2014, 09:04:42 PM »

This is a great little mod Breaktru

.

I was looking for a small variable voltage circuit and I chose this one, complete with touch switch, for it's size and simplicity.

I've managed to cram everything into a tiny space by using tantalum SMT caps on a 7 hole x 4 strips piece of strip board.

Oh, and thanks also to TI for the sample

My version isn't as small as yours, but I'm using 3x750 mAh LiPos in parallel and a USB charger board. It's not quite done yet as I still have to finish off shaping the bottom cover and I'm waiting on some little magnets to arrive to use to fix the cover in place.

Breaktru · « **Reply #410 on:** January 01, 2014, 09:25:28 PM »

Great doobe. Glad your going w/ more battery power. It will make a big difference.
Can't wait to see it done.

doobedoobedo · « **Reply #411 on:** January 02, 2014, 07:52:55 AM »

Me either

. I have quite a few pics of the build.

I made a vamo v3 board based mod before. It lasts me 2 1/2 to 3 days on a charge with 3 x 1000 mAh LiPos.

Breaktru · « **Reply #412 on:** January 02, 2014, 09:14:08 AM »

Quote from: doobedoobedo on January 02, 2014, 07:52:55 AM

Me either . I have quite a few pics of the build.

I made a vamo v3 board based mod before. It lasts me 2 1/2 to 3 days on a charge with 3 x 1000 mAh LiPos.

If you are interested in displaying your mod, create a new topic in the Modding category.

doobedoobedo · « **Reply #413 on:** January 02, 2014, 12:46:45 PM »

OK will do

wreck · « **Reply #414 on:** February 26, 2014, 05:31:20 AM »

I've just been looking on farnell for this chip, there appears to be quite a few variants: PTN04050CAD, PTN04050CAZ, PTN04050AAD, PTN04050AAZ...

Which would be the best for our application?

Thanks

Breaktru · « **Reply #415 on:** February 26, 2014, 06:54:13 AM »

Quote from: wreck on February 26, 2014, 05:31:20 AM

I've just been looking on farnell for this chip, there appears to be quite a few variants: PTN04050CAD, PTN04050CAZ, PTN04050AAD, PTN04050AAZ...

Which would be the best for our application?

Thanks

Stay away from the "A" version. It's only rated at 1 Amp. (4050Axx)
The CAZ and the CAS are surface mounts and the CAD and CAH are Through hole mount. These are the same just different mountings.

wreck · « **Reply #416 on:** February 26, 2014, 06:59:58 AM »

Great stuff. Thanks very much Breaktru

Another daft question... I'm struggling to find suitable caps on farnell.

Would these do the job? http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/100f-100v-105c-radial-electrolytic-capacitor-n85kf

Breaktru · « **Reply #417 on:** February 26, 2014, 07:56:36 AM »

Those caps are rather large.
Check these out Panasonic Low ESR and SMD by AVX

wreck · « **Reply #418 on:** February 26, 2014, 10:07:17 AM »

Thanks

wreck · « **Reply #419 on:** February 28, 2014, 05:44:35 AM »

Sorry for the double post...

Just finished my booster mod. Many thanks for the help via PM Dave

One question. I've noticed that when the battery voltage gets low, something inside the mod is making a squeeking noise. Is this something to be concerned with?

I think I'm going to try and squeeze one of your low voltage indicators inside it too.

Breaktru · « **Reply #420 on:** February 28, 2014, 07:01:06 AM »

Very nice and small. You did a great job squeezing it all in.
The squealing is an indication that the converter is under powered (low input voltage).
The low voltage indicator would fit nicely. Doesn't take up much room.

wreck · « **Reply #421 on:** February 28, 2014, 07:09:54 AM »

The battery read 3.2v when it started squealing. I still got a good 6-7 hours vaping from it at 4.2v though

doobedoobedo · « **Reply #422 on:** February 28, 2014, 07:40:00 AM »

That's lovely and small. I like the contrast of the wooden lid on the metal case too.

Visus · « **Reply #423 on:** February 28, 2014, 10:40:49 AM »

Nice compact mod stealth

I recommend a lipo for Break 4050c it really wakes it up.

What is amazing is the vdrop is not found under load

rhay80 · « **Reply #424 on:** March 07, 2014, 04:05:53 PM »

Hello guys, I have just read this topic from start to finish, my brain is fried lol.

I have a project in mind.... Was looking for advice and suggestions, I have a bottom feeder box mod, which runs off an 18500 battery, just a tactile switch no vv... As yet.

Basically if I could fit 2x14500, sort of above the circuitry would this be safe and possible?

If you want any pics of the inside and measurements I would be happy to provide them. But as this would be my very first attempt at this kind of build any advice would be appreciated. BTW I have no problem with ripping out the internals of this mod.

Thanks in advance Russell

PS I posted in this thread as this is the chip set that I would be interested in using.

CraigHB · « **Reply #425 on:** March 07, 2014, 04:27:30 PM »

Quote from: rhay80 on March 07, 2014, 04:05:53 PM

Basically if I could fit 2x14500, sort of above the circuitry would this be safe and possible?

It's a booster so you're talking parallel removable cells which carries some safety concerns for unprotected batteries. You'd need to run a fuse on each cell to provide protection for reverse polarity or excessive equalization currents that can occur if installed with a charge mismatch. Protected cells can resolve the isssue, but protected cells that small may trip when running higher outputs. Other than that, there's no issue using parallel 14500s.

rhay80 · « **Reply #426 on:** March 07, 2014, 04:34:58 PM »

Quote from: CraigHB on March 07, 2014, 04:27:30 PM

It's a booster so you're talking parallel removable cells which carries some safety concerns for unprotected batteries. You'd need to run a fuse on each cell to provide protection for reverse polarity or excessive equalization currents that can occur if installed with a charge mismatch. Protected cells can resolve the isssue, but protected cells that small may trip when running higher outputs. Other than that, there's no issue using parallel 14500s.

Hi Craig I would use two protected 14500 (trustfires) thanks for replying

Mandro · « **Reply #427 on:** March 07, 2014, 04:38:04 PM »

Hi Russel.
I'm just posting to say that it's good to see you on the breaktru forum. I don't think that I am experienced enough yet to give any advice. I can build them, using the info on here but I'm still not totally sure how they work.

wreck · « **Reply #428 on:** March 07, 2014, 05:00:18 PM »

Quote from: rhay80 on March 07, 2014, 04:05:53 PM

Hello guys, I have just read this topic from start to finish, my brain is fried lol.

I have a project in mind.... Was looking for advice and suggestions, I have a bottom feeder box mod, which runs off an 18500 battery, just a tactile switch no vv... As yet.

Basically if I could fit 2x14500, sort of above the circuitry would this be safe and possible?

If you want any pics of the inside and measurements I would be happy to provide them. But as this would be my very first attempt at this kind of build any advice would be appreciated. BTW I have no problem with ripping out the internals of this mod.

Thanks in advance Russell

PS I posted in this thread as this is the chip set that I would be interested in using.

Russ!

If it's your bogger you're thinking of converting, then why not make it single 18350 and fit the booster above or below the battery? There should be just about enought room...

Visus · « **Reply #429 on:** March 07, 2014, 05:03:07 PM »

Quote from: CraigHB on March 07, 2014, 04:27:30 PM

It's a booster so you're talking parallel removable cells which carries some safety concerns for unprotected batteries. You'd need to run a fuse on each cell to provide protection for reverse polarity or excessive equalization currents that can occur if installed with a charge mismatch. Protected cells can resolve the isssue, but protected cells that small may trip when running higher outputs. Other than that, there's no issue using parallel 14500s.

The main reason I will use lipo's on any mod I make from here on out running parallel with big mah, they make it easier IMO. To many variables @ our current demands after used across a few months/years with parallel li ion cells.
The 4050 really likes lipo too it vhispered it to me -- "yeah thats the good stuff.."
Using the right recommended single(AW) li ion is awesome for small form mods with this module..

Your gonna love it Rhay..

CraigHB · « **Reply #430 on:** March 07, 2014, 05:18:34 PM »

Still need a fuse between the battery and the board for short circuit protection, though for parallel non-removable cells, you don't need a fuse on each cell since there's no concern about reverse polarity or charge mismatch. Again, a protected battery eliminates this concern provided the battery can handle the load without tripping. Boosters increase current demand on the battery so it can be an issue.

rhay80 · « **Reply #431 on:** March 07, 2014, 05:32:28 PM »

Quote from: wreck on March 07, 2014, 05:00:18 PM

Russ!

If it's your bogger you're thinking of converting, then why not make it single 18350 and fit the booster above or below the battery? There should be just about enought room...

thats something worth thinking about. There would be more than enough room with an 18350.

rhay80 · « **Reply #432 on:** March 08, 2014, 03:28:21 AM »

Couple of questions about resistors, what ratings should I look for there are .25w, 8w etc, are there much difference between brands?

CraigHB · « **Reply #433 on:** March 08, 2014, 05:41:22 PM »

Resistors are probably the most generic component in electronics. There's really no difference between one brand and another. There's a few different types such as metal foil or thick film, but it doesn't really matter for general use. It only comes down to ratings, things like tolerance, power, temperature coefficient, etc.

For the ones you use on the pot and other low current parts of the circuit, really any resistor will do, but better to use the 1% tolerance ones. There's virtually no difference in price between those and the 5% ones. You can use any power rating you want, but in terms of the leaded type, 1/8W or 1/4W is fine and they're pretty small.

If you need to use capacitors, that's entirely different. Those are the opposite of resistors in terms of the options to choose from. There's a bunch of different types and they all have their pluses and minuses.

wreck · « **Reply #434 on:** March 24, 2014, 03:23:05 PM »

I've been trying to get my head round what spec fuse to use with this chip...

I couldn't see a max input current on the data sheet, so I used Craig's equation and came out with 4.88A

12W max output with 80% effecieny = 14.4W
minimum input voltage = 2.95V

14.4 / 2.95 = 4.88

So, I should be using a 5A fuse? And 16V would be fine.

Sorry for the long winded question, I really want to understand what I'm doing, rather than than just following someone else's instructions.

CraigHB · « **Reply #435 on:** March 27, 2014, 06:12:35 PM »

Should reasonable. 5A hold and 16V should be fine. Though the TI booster can be driven harder than the 12W specification. I know Breaktru has no trouble getting 20W out of his and has one that can go even higher than that. Can you confirm that Dave?

Breaktru · « **Reply #436 on:** March 27, 2014, 06:55:23 PM »

Yes I have pushed the PTN04050c beyond it's spec data of 12W, 2.4A to a wee bit over 30 Watts.
Here is a photo of 25.44 Watts, 4.67 Amps using a 1.16 ohm load
This was done w/ only a single 20C, 1000mah li-po.

I'm not sure which fuse I used. It's heat shrank. May have used a 6A or 7A PTC

wreck · « **Reply #437 on:** March 28, 2014, 07:33:57 AM »

Interesting... that said, I've been using a 1.1ohm coil on mine wiuthout a fuse at 4.2V, which is about 16watts.

I might go for 2 x 3A in parallel, as I have loads of them here. Unless anyone can see any issues?

that should allow me to run a 1.1ohm coil at 4.2V pretty comfortably.

Visus · « **Reply #438 on:** March 28, 2014, 07:52:40 AM »

I see issue with it, your at a measly 16 watts crank that mofo up to 37 watts and then report back.

Breaktru · « **Reply #439 on:** March 28, 2014, 08:22:47 AM »

Quote from: wreck on March 28, 2014, 07:33:57 AM

Interesting... that said, I've been using a 1.1ohm coil on mine wiuthout a fuse at 4.2V, which is about 16watts.

I might go for 2 x 3A in parallel, as I have loads of them here. Unless anyone can see any issues?

that should allow me to run a 1.1ohm coil at 4.2V pretty comfortably.

2 x 3A is good. Go for it

wreck · « **Reply #440 on:** March 28, 2014, 08:30:38 AM »

Thanks for the advice again guys

wreck · « **Reply #441 on:** March 30, 2014, 07:47:57 AM »

I've just wired up my second box, but this time I've included the 2 x 3A fuses discussed above.

I've run into a slight issue and I'm not quite sure what the underlying problem is...

With my first box (without fuses) I could run a 1.1ohm coil @ 4.2V and the battery would drain down to about 3.2V before the chip started to struggle...

This new box I've made with the fuses struggles to power the same set up with a fresh battery... In fact it struggles to power a 1.4ohm coil @ 4.2V once the battery has drained to around 3.8V.

Any ideas? I thought maybe it was a bad solder joint, so dismantled and resoldered everything.

Could the fuses be to blame?

Breaktru · « **Reply #442 on:** March 30, 2014, 08:06:36 AM »

@wreck:
Same battery?
Jump out the fuses for test purposes.

wreck · « **Reply #443 on:** March 30, 2014, 08:09:09 AM »

Yeah, same battery...

Looks like I'm going to have to take the fuses out to test... unfortunately they're buried really deep in the mod

Breaktru · « **Reply #444 on:** March 30, 2014, 08:11:25 AM »

While you're in there, check the integrity of all you connections

CraigHB · « **Reply #445 on:** April 01, 2014, 11:50:41 AM »

You normally get some voltage drop with the fuses, but it shouldn't be enough to cause things to stop working, less than a tenth of a volt. So yeah, there's something unusual going on. If you can get it there, measure the voltage across the fuses under power. If it's much more that a tenth of a volt, resistance is too high. Also, check voltage at the board connections under power. With the resistance of the battery, fuses, and wiring, voltage should not sag more than three tenths below open circuit battery voltage.

You want to minimize voltage drop from the battery as much as possible with a booster. Still, it should not preclude the use of fuses. Worn or incorrect batteries can sag in voltage too much under load and bad connections can introduce resistance that also causes voltage to drop a lot. Use good high drain batteries and a liberal gauge on wiring (20 AWG is usually good).

micheleCIG · « **Reply #446 on:** April 02, 2014, 08:35:58 AM »

good evening guys! If I got it right I should use a heat shrink to pump the circuit above the 12w declared by TI?
thank you all

tangocharlie · « **Reply #447 on:** April 02, 2014, 09:59:43 AM »

bolol

Breaktru · « **Reply #448 on:** April 02, 2014, 10:59:14 AM »

Quote from: micheleCIG on April 02, 2014, 08:35:58 AM

good evening guys! If I got it right I should use a heat shrink to pump the circuit above the 12w declared by TI?
thank you all

NO heat shrink or do you mean Heat SINK. No either way.

You need a good strong quality battery like a 20C Lipo battery or better. You can also use an 18650 30A battery. Preferably Sony or Panasonic. You are not going to get those results with a 14500 battery used in this .44 mini mod topic.
Use short and large gauge wires on the battery and output. 20 gauge or even 18 gauge.
If you are going to use a PTC fuse, it should be the lowest resistance that your can find.

micheleCIG · « **Reply #449 on:** April 02, 2014, 01:24:08 PM »

I meant heat sink :p
I asked because on italian forum they say that circuit fries if more than 12w are required
Thank you for the explaination btw