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Breaktru Forum  |  eCigarette Forum  |  Battery  |  Topic: batteries
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Offline jester

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batteries
« on: June 11, 2012, 03:16:37 PM »
i am looking to get some new batteries i have been told that the ncr1865a is the best but it as no protection but the xtar 3100 and senybor 3100 use the ncr18650a and have protection would i be better using these cheers guys  :help:

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Re: batteries
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2012, 03:47:59 PM »
i am looking to get some new batteries i have been told that the ncr1865a is the best but it as no protection but the xtar 3100 and senybor 3100 use the ncr18650a and have protection would i be better using these cheers guys  :help:

Everyone has been raving about the CGR18650CH batteries as the BEST.
See the co-op that Timesarerough is running as Shekinahsgroom at ECF: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/coop-planning-discussion/300868-panasonic-cgr18650ch-2250mah-flat-top-nipple-top-safe-chemistry-cells.html

Offline jester

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Re: batteries
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2012, 03:50:06 PM »
i seem them today i think are the 10 amp ones

Offline jester

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Re: batteries
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2012, 04:05:26 PM »
 i am not a verified member at the  moment just a member :(

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Re: batteries
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2012, 07:02:16 PM »
i am not a verified member at the  moment just a member :(

You can find them elsewhere but they are about 8 bucks USD a piece

Offline CraigHB

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Re: batteries
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2012, 03:14:34 PM »
The NCR18650A cells have 3100mAh.  The CGR18650CH cells have 2250mAh

The NCR cells have a max drain of 6A.  The CGR cells have a max drain of 10A

The NCR cells have about 70 mOhms DCR, the CGR cells have around 35 mOhms DCR.

Panasonic recommends both cell types be used with additional protection, but the CGR cell is probably safer to use without it.

I believe both cell types have a built-in PTC, but there seems to be some confusion about that in the documentation for the CGR18650CH.

See this link;

http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-cgi/jvcr21pz.cgi?E+BA+3+ACA4001+4++WW

ECF will not let me view that link posted for the co-op.  Says I do not have permission.  The cells are pricey from other sources so a cheap co-op would be good.

The AW 3100mAh 18650 uses a Panasonic NCR18650A.  The AW IMR 2000mAh 18650 uses a CGR18650CH.  I've found other sources for those cells such as eBay and these guys;

http://callieskustoms.com/CalliesKustoms-Batteries.html

All are pretty expensive.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 04:59:32 PM by CraigHB »

Offline fsors

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Re: batteries
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2012, 08:17:55 PM »
You could try:http://www.vapeatron.com/e-cigarette-forums/ ;cheers;

Offline timesarerough

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Re: batteries
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2012, 11:29:56 PM »

ECF will not let me view that link posted for the co-op.  Says I do not have permission.  The cells are pricey from other sources so a cheap co-op would be good.

The AW 3100mAh 18650 uses a Panasonic NCR18650A.  The AW IMR 2000mAh 18650 uses a CGR18650CH. 

Are you sure about the AW 2000 mah? Never heard of that before....

Got a link?

The two CGR-CH Co-Op links (ECF & Vapeatron) are both mine.

You should be able to view the V-Tron thread, just ignore the reoccurring TROLLS in there right now...and post what you'd like.

Then send me a PM, I'm the organizer, with your e-mail address and I'll send ya an order verification form.

The CGR-CH's are $3.89/ea including a 90-Day Warranty + $5.15 Priority w/DC.

There are roughly 40 cells remaining out of a 1000 cell shipment.

Here's the V-Tron link:

http://www.vapeatron.com/panasonic-cgr18650ch-2250mah-flat-top-nipple-top-co-op-26281/

Fsors is also in the coop as well as another 100+ members. (Thanks for the back-me-up Fsors!  :applaude:)

And Dave's got dibbs on at least 6 of those remaining.  :yes"

BTW...love this thing D! Just rocks with 2 CGR's.... :thankyou:

Shek

Offline timesarerough

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Re: batteries
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2012, 11:32:38 PM »
Everyone has been raving about the CGR18650CH batteries as the BEST.
See the co-op that Timesarerough is running as Shekinahsgroom at ECF: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/coop-planning-discussion/300868-panasonic-cgr18650ch-2250mah-flat-top-nipple-top-safe-chemistry-cells.html

 :thumbsup:

Offline fsors

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Re: batteries
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2012, 11:40:35 PM »
I like em ;cheers;

Offline timesarerough

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Re: batteries
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2012, 12:30:12 AM »
I like em ;cheers;

So how many days are you getting out of them?

Offline fsors

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Re: batteries
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2012, 01:03:26 AM »
I get  a solid two days and nights out of them :rockin smiley: :beer-toast:
And check out the Range I get with NO CAPS ;cheers;



Offline timesarerough

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Re: batteries
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2012, 01:31:26 AM »
Oh geez you're a heavy vaper, huh?

I've been consistently 4 days.

The very first cycle I got 5 days, but I was pretty busy in between.

Gonna start rating them by the 5 ml tank instead of days....should give a much better idea of just how long they last per cycle.  :yes"

Offline fsors

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Re: batteries
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2012, 01:44:04 AM »
Heavy what do you think? ;cheers;





Offline timesarerough

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Re: batteries
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2012, 06:49:55 AM »
Super-T tests on the AW's versus the CGR-CH.

The AW 2000 mah is clearly NOT a CGR-CH and is short by 200+ mah....but the trace line is similar.





AW's are considerably more expensive than the CGR's and only last for 300 cycles, while the CGR beats both of the AW's in capacity AND is supposed to last for 500 cycles.

I'd like to see an AW's life characteristics match this...

https://industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf2/ACA4000/ACA4000CE272.pdf

Based on user complaints, AW's die after about a year of use or under 300 cycles.

But I'm not an expert....

I just know that the CGR's are really spectacular performing cells!


Offline fsors

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Re: batteries
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2012, 02:49:19 PM »
Super-T tests on the AW's versus the CGR-CH.

The AW 2000 mah is clearly NOT a CGR-CH and is short by 200+ mah....but the trace line is similar.





AW's are considerably more expensive than the CGR's and only last for 300 cycles, while the CGR beats both of the AW's in capacity AND is supposed to last for 500 cycles.

I'd like to see an AW's life characteristics match this...

https://industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf2/ACA4000/ACA4000CE272.pdf

Based on user complaints, AW's die after about a year of use or under 300 cycles.

But I'm not an expert....

I just know that the CGR's are really spectacular performing cells!

I am not a battery expert either just know I like CGR's the best so I second all of the above Shek!TRR!

Offline jester

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Re: batteries
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2012, 02:55:06 PM »
does anybody know of a place to get  cgr18650 ch in the uk

Offline Topper

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Offline CraigHB

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Re: batteries
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2012, 04:09:52 PM »
Hmm, I read the AW 2000mAh IMR 18650 was a Panasonic CGR18650CH.  My bad then.  Sorry for the bad info.

How long a battery runs on a charge for someone is entirely subjective.  I use about 250mAh per hour so a CGR would run a little over 8 hours for me on a charge.

Cycle life is also relatiive.  The NCR has 3100mAh and is good for 300 cycles.  The CGR has 2250mAh and is good for 500 cycles.  However, since the NCR has higher capacity, it does not have to be charged as often.  Works out to about the same, but the CGR still edges ahead a little.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 04:25:35 PM by CraigHB »

Offline jester

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Re: batteries
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2012, 04:37:48 PM »
thank you but the battery on ebay are cgr18650cg not cgr18650ch i dont think thay 10 amp i dont know

Offline timesarerough

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Re: batteries
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2012, 08:17:43 PM »
does anybody know of a place to get  cgr18650 ch in the uk

There's someone in my V-tron Co-Op that was wanting in, today, but said he's was gonna try to organize a coop himself...in the UK.

There are a few sellers on fleabay for the CGR-CH's, here:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=CGR18650CH

Offline SmokeRings

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Re: batteries
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2012, 02:43:28 PM »
How would these Panasonic batteries compare to a Li-Po 20c battery. Wouldn't the Li-Po be better? Aren't they 20A Const and 40A Max Burst?

I'd like to see this in a co-op:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/546107438/li_polymer_battery_5535145_2200mah_3.html?s=p
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/562261738/li_polymer_battery_833295_2200mah_3.html

Offline CraigHB

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Re: batteries
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2012, 04:04:58 PM »
How would these Panasonic batteries compare to a Li-Po 20c battery. Wouldn't the Li-Po be better? Aren't they 20A Const and 40A Max Burst?

Depends on what you're looking for and what you need.  One of the big considerations is charge density which is relatively poor for a 20C LiPo. 

For example, the NCR18650A uses about 5 mm3 per mAh.  A 2200mAh 20C LiPo uses about 12 mm3 per mAh, a pretty notable difference.

DCR or DC resistance is an important factor in maximum drain rates and voltage sag.  For example, low DCR can be required for a booster mod.  The NCR18650A has around 70m Ohm DCR where the 20C LiPo has around 7m Ohm DCR. 

There's some pretty wide differences between the cell types.  If you want smaller size, but don't need particularly low DCR, the NCR18650A would be a better choice.  If you need low DCR and charge density is not a big concern, the LiPo would be the better choice.  The CGR18650CH is inbetween the two, lower DCR and charge density than the NCR18650A, but higher than a 20C LiPo.

Oh, BTW, Hobby King has amazingly inexpensive individual (1S) LiPo cells for our application, no need for a co-op.  They're here.  I'm using the 2200mAh cell and it's great, delivers advertised capacity and seems to be holding up well.  I'll get a better feel for the cycle life once I've put some mileage on one.  So far so good though.

One other note, those LiPos you linked to look like 2C LiPos (doesn't say in the listing).  You can get LiPos in a wide range of "C" ratings.  I've had a lot of trouble in the past with 2C LiPos, they tend to bloat easily which is a precursor to thermal runaway.  I haven't tried any 10C LiPos, the ones I've come across are way too expensive, but they might hold up better.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 05:08:38 PM by CraigHB »

Offline SmokeRings

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Re: batteries
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2012, 06:56:20 PM »
thanks Mr. Craig for all your valuable info.  :thankyou:
I was looking to use it in a boost mod so I think I'll go with the Li-po.
I Googled for 20c li-po's. Did not notice if they were 2c ratings in the links. Sorry

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Re: batteries
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2012, 06:58:46 PM »
moving topic to Battery section

Offline sirpuff

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Re: batteries
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2014, 09:17:59 PM »
I have a bunch of ICP1003450B batteries, are they any good for mod building?  I have made a few for 186 500 but never seen these being used.

Offline theDom

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Re: batteries
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2014, 11:22:47 AM »
I have a bunch of ICP1003450B batteries, are they any good for mod building?  I have made a few for 186 500 but never seen these being used.

Here is the DATASHEET for the battery

Offline CraigHB

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Re: batteries
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2014, 05:20:36 PM »
How the hell did you get a hold of those things, pretty unusual battery.  Usually it's only OEMs that use those prismatics.  In any case, the data sheet says it's a LiCo cell which has the lowest safety.  Also, it has a max continuous drain of 3.1A according to that data sheet. 

It's rather sketchy to use that cell in a mod for powering anything other than a standard resistance atomizer.  It's a definite negative for anything that uses a booster (boosters increase current demand from the battery).  For any application, that cell must have protection circuitry added.  So most generally, that's not a good battery to use in a mod.

Offline Visus

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Re: batteries
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2014, 03:22:08 PM »
See video here and ask yourself the question are you as fast as superman..

http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,1124.0.html

also see here

http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,1028.0.html

Offline CraigHB

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Re: batteries
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2014, 07:19:12 PM »
Those exploding Li-Ion videos can generate a good amount of fear mongering with Li-Ion cells, but they can take an amount of abuse short of crushing them or punching a nail through them.  To cause ignition purely by short circuit or overload requires the cell to get quite hot.  You'll likely notice your mod is unusually warm before the cell ignites, but that's no guarantee either. 

In any case, you don't want to push your luck.  The LiPos are more hazardous because they are vulnerable to physical damage, but the other types of Li-Ion cells burn just as fast if pushed to that point.  Although you can safely push a cell beyond its continuous rating with the intermittent power applied to an atomizer (cell has time to cool between uses), it's still a good idea to use the continuous drain limit as a hard limit to provide a broad margin of safety.

Offline sirpuff

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Re: batteries
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2014, 01:07:45 PM »
The company I work for has purchased new radio equipment, and there were 2 of these in each battery cartridge. I salvaged 200 cartridges from the dumpster. And after tearing into them, now have a bunch of stuff individual batteries.  Thanks for the replies, sounds like I should have left them in the dumpster. Oh well,  back to the drawing board.

Offline Visus

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Re: batteries
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2014, 01:14:53 PM »
Not total garbage  you can make the greatest ego board batts ever with those batts..

http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10004564/1349908-electronic-cigarette-circuit-board-for-ego-ego-t
http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10005128/1402605-ego-t-e-cigarette-battery-3-6v-circuit-board

Auto
http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10005128/1402701-ego-k-e-cigarette-battery-automatic-circuit-board

Or a really cool 2.5 3 amp max boost circuit
The 4050c will demand more of those batts if you go to low on coil this boost module I am not sure but it's pretty cool

http://www.suntekstore.com/goods-14002287-lm2577s_dc-dc_adjustable_step-up_power_supply_module.html
Some really nice prices on ol skool modules on that site and more..

A step down if you can wire them in series
cannot beat the price for a step down used heavy 2012' in mods across the seas for ecigs
79cents
http://www.satistronics.com/mp2307dn-3a-dcdc-stepdown-power-supply-module-kis3r33s_p2798.html
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 01:27:40 PM by Visus »

Offline CraigHB

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Re: batteries
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2014, 01:53:01 PM »
The company I work for has purchased new radio equipment, and there were 2 of these in each battery cartridge. I salvaged 200 cartridges from the dumpster. And after tearing into them, now have a bunch of stuff individual batteries.  Thanks for the replies, sounds like I should have left them in the dumpster. Oh well,  back to the drawing board.

Oh okay, that explains it.  Well, like Visus said, you ~can~ use them.  You can get a protection board like this to use with them and they'll be safe, though limited to lower power outputs.

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