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Breaktru Forum  |  eCigarette Forum  |  Atty/Carto/Tank/Rebuildable  |  Topic: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
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Online Breaktru

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Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« on: August 03, 2012, 08:43:51 AM »
As per this video, using Cigg rolling paper to create a carbon layer between the coil and the stainless steel mesh will prevent the coil from shorting to the SS mesh.


https://youtu.be/bvnCqkobJLk
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 04:54:55 PM by Breaktru »

Offline Jerseybob

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2012, 03:42:38 PM »
Cigg paper sounds good but I have never had a problem.. well maybe once.
I just use the juice burn w/ a lighter a few times to build up the carbon.

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2012, 04:01:09 PM »
I'm getting a rebuildable atomizer this week that can accomodate a vertical SS wick an coil.  I'm going to try this.  Good thing I hung on to that packet of ZigZag rolling papers I've had for like 20 years. 

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2012, 04:28:27 PM »
I'm getting a rebuildable atomizer this week that can accomodate a vertical SS wick an coil.  I'm going to try this.  Good thing I hung on to that packet of ZigZag rolling papers I've had for like 20 years. 

Can't wait to hear about the new rebuildable atty. Keep us posted. Seems to be a big push toward the rebuildables looking thru the ECF threads. Still waiting on mine from the UK.

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2012, 05:28:36 PM »
They really are brilliant.  Just one of those things where everything comes together just right.  I've been using mine for a week now and have had no desire to use anything else.  Kind of waiting by the mailbox for the other two on the way.

People have had mixed results with the eGo tank the Bulli A2-T knockoff takes.  Some people say it works great, others like me can't get it to wick fast enough.  If you have issues with the tank, they drip beautifully.  I'm pretty hooked on the rebuildable drippers now.

Offline fsors

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2012, 12:16:29 PM »
Guys just do a proper oxidation of the wick and that's all you will need

Offline synchro

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2012, 12:02:31 PM »
Which one did you get Craig?

I have a Phoenix which I put a SS mesh wick in and 36 awg Kanthal A1 for a 3 ohm coil which is working kinda medium, not great but not bad either.  Sort of like a cheap 510 atty. 

I also just got a GG Penelope which blows my hair back with how good it is.  The advantage there is that the 3ml tank is above the coil so wicking is gravity assisted and an adjustable juice feed.  They are expensive but worth it in my book as it will take the place of many atty's I would have purchased (and didn't work as well). Took all of 5 minutes to build the coil and wick and get it all installed.  Just creates huge plumes of vapor with great throat hit and flavor, no dratty.  Its only been a few days but I am really impressed with the Penelope.

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2012, 05:55:03 PM »
I have two Phoenix, a Rainbow V2-A, and two Rainbow V3 coming (should be here today actually).  The Rainbow V2-A is the better one, nicest construction.  It actually takes an eGo A type tank, but I have it set up as a dripper.  The Rainbow V3 is the same as the V2-A, but it has a different top piece to accommodate a 510 drip tip instead of an eGo tank.

I've been using a 1.8 Ohm 32 AWG Nichrome 60 coil wrapped around 4 stands of 1mm silica wick.  A 2.6 Ohm 34 AWG coil also works well.  I leave big tails on the wick to stuff them into into the juice reservoir underneath.  They hold 15 drops which is 1/2 ml with my drip bottle.  The one complaint is they seem to acquire a burnt taste faster than atomizers like the 510 and 901, but things can be refreshed with a rinse, a dry, and a dry burn.

http://stormysvaporcellar.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=96

That vendor doesn't have the best prices, but it's the only vendor in the US I can find for the Rainbow V3 rebuildable atomizer.  Vapour Hut has them in the UK.

The Rainbow can not accommodate a vertical wick and I have not had success in running an SS wick on the Phoenix.  I can get them stable in resistance, but they spit and pop a lot and taste crappy.  I've given up on them for these drippers. 

Offline timesarerough

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2012, 10:33:46 PM »
I know that you don't care for the ECF, but there's been a rash of Co-Ops for these units, right around $5/ea.

A friend of mine also found a really great remake of a genny in all stainless steel, including the center pole, bolts, caps, the large tank....all of it is SS and was going for $13/ea shipped!  :yes"

I might get lucky and snag 2 leftovers, but the coop sold out in a matter of hours.

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2012, 11:08:33 PM »
Well, avoiding ECF cost me $40 then.  It's worth it.

In any case, I got my Rainbow V3 rebuildables today.  I ran into an issue with them.  For some bizarre reason, they put a second tiny airhole at the bottom of the middle section which defeats the reservoir.  Any juice you put in will leak right out. 

I solder filled the bottom hole to plug it off and drilled the top one out for better flow which I always have to do.  These Chinese numb nuts must think we all hit on these things like tweety birds.  Otherwise, the quality and appearance is really nice on these, much better than the Phoneix.  I just don't understand why those retards put an air hole in the bottom of that middle section.  Really made me mad at the time because it's just so retarded.

Online Breaktru

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2012, 08:05:52 PM »
Just converted the SmokTech Vivi to a Genesis style as per Scubabatdan's suggestions but modded a bit like Meolms1's video.

The first coil I wound I noticed only the top wind of the coil was glowing and eventually popped. It had measured 1.7 ohms before trying it.
The second coil I wound at 1.8 ohms and used NR wire, still the same result. I thought about it and came to the conclusion that just maybe the 400 SS mesh was not carbonized enough and that the coil was shorting to the mesh although it measure okay.
Used the same mesh wick and re-burned with a torch 3 more times and used a lighter to burn on my eJuice 6 times creating a nice carbon build up that was not as apparent in the first try. Wound a new coil to 2.5 ohms w/ NO N/R wire. Coil ends are directly next to the posts so no ends are exposed.

Firing up the coil glowed nice and even this time. The first draw almost blew my head off and my head began to buzz like I was inhaling 100mg of nicotine... WOW.

As per the instruction, it says to drill a 3/64" air hole in the tank but I drilled a smaller 1/16" hole. This is still to big of a hole because the draw is too airy. I placed a piece of scotch tape over the hole and made a pin hole in the tape which corrected the draw just right. So I would suggest drilling the initial hole the smallest you can. You can always widen it later.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 05:56:23 PM by Breaktru Admin »

Offline synchro

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2012, 10:39:34 PM »
Hmmm...gonna have to try a Rainbow V3 then.  Still not getting great results with the Phoenix, its not bad with the SS mesh but nothing that would stop me from buying my beloved cisco 306's.

Offline fsors

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2012, 01:38:41 AM »
Just converted the SmokTech Vivi to a Genesis style as per Scubabatdan's suggestions but modded a bit like Meolms1's video.

The first coil I wound I noticed only the top wind of the coil was glowing and eventually popped. It had measured 1.7 ohms before trying it.
The second coil I wound at 1.8 ohms and used NR wire, still the same result. I thought about it and came to the conclusion that just maybe the 400 SS mesh was not carbonized enough and that the coil was shorting to the mesh although it measure okay.
Used the same mesh wick and re-burned with a torch 3 more times and used a lighter to burn on my eJuice 6 times creating a nice carbon build up that was not as apparent in the first try. Wound a new coil to 2.5 ohms w/ NO N/R wire. Coil ends are directly next to the posts so no ends are exposed.

Firing up the coil glowed nice and even this time. The first draw almost blew my head off and my head began to buzz like I was inhaling 100mg of nicotine... WOW.

As per the instruction, it says to drill a 3/64" air hole in the tank but I drilled a smaller 1/16" hole. This is still to big of a hole because the draw is too airy. I placed a piece of scotch tape over the hole and made a pin hole in the tape which corrected the draw just right. So I would suggest drilling the initial hole the smallest you can. You can always widen it later.

Glad to see you getting into this Dave. Love to hear about you blowing your head off which I have been enjoying for some time. Congrats no more chinese crap welcome to the Genisis world! ;cheers;

Online Breaktru

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2012, 09:14:58 AM »
Thanks fsors, took me awhile to get into switching from cartos to rebuildables. I was skeptical.

@synchro :
Only made one Genisis style as yet and will experiment further on the next one. I notice that I have to hold the fire button longer for a heavy plume compared to a short burst w/ a carto.
With chain vaping, I have to tip the tank to saturate the wick so I plan on re-thinking the rolling of my mesh to accommodate for a wetter wick. I'm using a 50/50 juice. Perhaps a higher PG would wick better also.

Offline fsors

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2012, 12:37:23 PM »
Thanks fsors, took me awhile to get into switching from cartos to rebuildables. I was skeptical.

@synchro :
Only made one Genisis style as yet and will experiment further on the next one. I notice that I have to hold the fire button longer for a heavy plume compared to a short burst w/ a carto.
With chain vaping, I have to tip the tank to saturate the wick so I plan on re-thinking the rolling of my mesh to accommodate for a wetter wick. I'm using a 50/50 juice. Perhaps a higher PG would wick better also.

You are on the right track for wicking. I roll my mesh around a paperclip (big one) that has been staightened not too loose and not too tight. The nice thing is you can take the coil off and re-roll the wick if it's not right and repeat as much as needed until you get it right. Once you have it you will know it. Takes some practice but after you know how you can make a wick easy that works every time. Persistence and a little patience are all it takes.  :popcorn:

Offline synchro

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2012, 12:02:13 AM »
Looks like Empire has the V3 for $17

http://www.empiremods.com/product_p/v3reb.htm

Offline Pantera

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2012, 09:20:04 AM »
I also had to make a few mesh wicks before I got it right.
Rolling the mesh for good wicking took practice and I needed to carbonize it better to prevent intermittent shorts.
It was definitely worth the initial work but once I did a few it's now pretty easy for me to make new ones.

Offline Madmanmacguyver

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2012, 12:17:36 PM »
to me Gen atties rock...I have a scubagen I modified with a piece of tubing so the air blows directly on the coil not swirling thru the center tube...its a bit of a PITA to get the right tubing size and solder the positive connection to it but it made a lot of difference and definitely fixed the leaking thru the center post of the CE2 connector...now all I have to do is find someplace that makes SS connectors so I don't have to tear it down and replace the CE2 connector every 2-3 mo...(YEA...I drop my mods a lot...)

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2012, 05:46:27 PM »
I have not been able to find any SS connectors.  I dont' think they exist.  I had to hire out a machine shop to make a bunch for me, expensive.  It's worth it though.  My connectors will last longer than my mods and I've already put them through hell.  Those crappy brass ones don't last longer than a couple months for me.

Edit; I realize now you were talking about the atty connector, I was talking about the battery connector.  Nevermind.  Same kind of problem though.  Nobody makes those in SS either.  Though the high end, low production volume tank atties are usally SS including the connector.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2012, 06:13:44 PM by CraigHB »

Offline iusedtoanalog

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2012, 11:52:35 PM »
Hi Dave, Sterling and Fsors, I have been eyeing a good many of your posts. I have also been intrigued about the gen style atties. I have purchased the Did clone that has been more readily available as of lately. I have looked, watched, built and done as much research before, and after having the atty in my hands. I currently am using 36ga nicrome wire(I do have kanthal a1-32ga en-route, sadly i don't think I will have that until mid week next week), and I am having the worst time with hotspots, most of them happen at the top where the coil leaves the wick. I have built coils for the past three days, I don't know what to adjust to make these coils not pop. I do have a coil on the unit right now that I can vape somewhat, It has tons of throat hit and not much vapor output versus a 3Ω boge carto @ 5v. I have been making four wraps for a total of about 3.5Ω. I have found that at the top of the wick if I continue the wrap around the backside of the wick then directly to the positive connection the coil does last a few vapes before it finally pops. I have been able to get a few coils that glow hot through the entire span but even these pop after a few vapes. What is it that I am missing? I have made almost 2 meters of coils on the last three days...... I am running an okr t6 vv and start off at ~4v on my ~3Ω coils...... :thankyou:
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 11:03:49 AM by Breaktru »

Offline iusedtoanalog

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2012, 12:01:05 AM »
By The way..... Those question marks are were the omega symbol(alt234) should be..... apparently the forum doesnt recognise this keystroke......

Online Breaktru

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2012, 09:28:02 AM »
Hi Dave, Sterling and Fsors, I have been eyeing a good many of your posts. I have also been intrigued about the gen style atties. I have purchased the Did clone that has been more readily available as of lately. I have looked, watched, built and done as much research before, and after having the atty in my hands. I currently am using 36ga nicrome wire(I do have kanthal a1-32ga en-route, sadly i don't think I will have that until mid week next week), and I am having the worst time with hotspots, most of them happen at the top where the coil leaves the wick. I have built coils for the past three days, I don't know what to adjust to make these coils not pop. I do have a coil on the unit right now that I can vape somewhat, It has tons of throat hit and not much vapor output versus a 3? boge carto @ 5v. I have been making four wraps for a total of about 3.5?. I have found that at the top of the wick if I continue the wrap around the backside of the wick then directly to the positive connection the coil does last a few vapes before it finally pops. I have been able to get a few coils that glow hot through the entire span but even these pop after a few vapes. What is it that I am missing? I have made almost 2 meters of coils on the last three days...... I am running an okr t6 vv and start off at ~4v on my ~3? coils...... :thankyou:

I feel your hot spot pain. Been there, done that.
What is happening with a hot spot is the coil is grounding/shorting to the SS wick from the point where the coil is not glowing. Make sure the coil is not too tight around the wick where it is rubbing into the oxidation of the mesh. Slide up the mesh to a new spot and fire it up observing the glow of the coil. Move it around a bit until you see all the coils glowing. Most important, make sure your mesh is well oxidized. You may have to pull it out and re-oxidize a few more times.
TH and little vapor is because the entire coil is not firing. Most likely just the top coil.

Also, it is better to have more coil windings than just a few. The more windings the more coverage to heat up a larger portion of the juice on the wick. With this said, you will have to use a lower/thicker gauge wire. I use 32ga and have 28ga which I haven't used yet.
With the 32ga I wrap about 8 turns.

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2012, 11:02:15 AM »
To add special characters, it would have to be in HTML code.
Here is the ohm sign: Ω
This is what it looks like in code, enclose the html and the /html with brackets [] when posting:
html Ω /html

I edited your post to include the Ω sign
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 11:05:28 AM by Breaktru »

Offline iusedtoanalog

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2012, 12:34:21 AM »
Ok After having another(few) cracks at getting this coil and wick assembled correctly..... I have settled basically by default with a 4 wrap coil at 3.1 ohms. I have been able to get the entire coil to glow with no obvious hot spots. So thanks there for the good words of encouragement and advice. Now even at 4.2v I get wreckless throat hit and very minimal vapor. I have tried eight wraps,seven,six..... At varied voltages from 3.5-6.5... the ones that work well all seem to be the 4wrap coils(I have had three "sucessful" coils that where vapeable), this seems to be the way that i get the most uniform tension around the wick.  I did re torch the wick, and re burnt some VG onto the wick(x6).... This cured the conductivity issue I think I was originally having. If I drip directly onto the wick I get a fair amount of vapor, for about a single draw.... I only have a few of the preroller/preoxidized wicks and the hole down the center is about the size o the wall thickness.....

Second part of the question, Is kanthal easier to work with than the nichrome? In the sense of are they any more robust than the nichrome? I would Imagine by the size difference of the two (36 nichrome vs 32kanthal )  the gauge of the wire would help to make the coil a bit more sturdy......?...

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2012, 12:20:34 PM »
Ok After having another(few) cracks at getting this coil and wick assembled correctly..... I have settled basically by default with a 4 wrap coil at 3.1 ohms. I have been able to get the entire coil to glow with no obvious hot spots. So thanks there for the good words of encouragement and advice. Now even at 4.2v I get wreckless throat hit and very minimal vapor. I have tried eight wraps,seven,six..... At varied voltages from 3.5-6.5... the ones that work well all seem to be the 4wrap coils(I have had three "sucessful" coils that where vapeable), this seems to be the way that i get the most uniform tension around the wick.  I did re torch the wick, and re burnt some VG onto the wick(x6).... This cured the conductivity issue I think I was originally having. If I drip directly onto the wick I get a fair amount of vapor, for about a single draw.... I only have a few of the preroller/preoxidized wicks and the hole down the center is about the size o the wall thickness.....

Second part of the question, Is kanthal easier to work with than the nichrome? In the sense of are they any more robust than the nichrome? I would Imagine by the size difference of the two (36 nichrome vs 32kanthal )  the gauge of the wire would help to make the coil a bit more sturdy......?...

Ok sounds to me like you have two problems to overcome. First, the wick is to tight in the hole and is not feeding. Therefore, the wick must be made thinner either by rolling it tighter or by reducing the amount of mesh or both. Second, 36 Nichrome and 32 Kanthal are different resistances and as well as different materials. The Nichrome can not take as much heat as its threshold is lower than Kanthal. Meself I have used both with no problem. The 36 Nichrome you have is thinner and with lower heat threshold will pop much sooner than the Kanthal you have which is thicker and has a higher heat threshold. Since you are a noob to this, go with the Kanthal and later when you master that you can work with the Nichrome if you want.

 :popcorn:

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2012, 12:51:27 PM »
This was the give away to poor wicking:


 If I drip directly onto the wick I get a fair amount of vapor, for about a single draw....



Offline iusedtoanalog

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2012, 11:26:26 PM »
OK Understood. Now I have three premade(and poorly oxidized) wicks, not certain of the mesh sizing but I think they are all 325, I vape 80/20 VG/PG(diy) and was thinking I should stop over at Grainger and pick up some 500 sized mesh. My liquid Is thinned with water to about the consisitancy of pure PG.  Am I correct in assuming this would wick better than (what I assume is )325 sized? Second I have the fill hole screw out completely. Would I stilll want to make a narrower wick,if I am going to leave the screw out?

The nichrome is all I have, until my kanthal order arrives maybe mid week..... I think I will keep trying to make a successful coil with this until I have mastered the harder coil. I did vape my four wrap coil almost for two hours and It was very different than anything else I have tried..... So I think a few more Valiant attempts are in order.Thanks for all the advice, I do appreciate it.

Offline fsors

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Re: Prevent Shorting of Coil to SS mesh
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2012, 12:06:04 AM »
OK Understood. Now I have three premade(and poorly oxidized) wicks, not certain of the mesh sizing but I think they are all 325, I vape 80/20 VG/PG(diy) and was thinking I should stop over at Grainger and pick up some 500 sized mesh. My liquid Is thinned with water to about the consisitancy of pure PG.  Am I correct in assuming this would wick better than (what I assume is )325 sized? Second I have the fill hole screw out completely. Would I stilll want to make a narrower wick,if I am going to leave the screw out?

The nichrome is all I have, until my kanthal order arrives maybe mid week..... I think I will keep trying to make a successful coil with this until I have mastered the harder coil. I did vape my four wrap coil almost for two hours and It was very different than anything else I have tried..... So I think a few more Valiant attempts are in order.Thanks for all the advice, I do appreciate it.

500 is better than 325 yes leave the screw out and make a thinner wick that's the way. Nichrome is fine just be sure to correct your hotspots and it will work great and last a long time. :popcorn:

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