The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making

[Breaktru]

Using a strong spring clip is vital for a good weld. The smaller clips with the flat nose in the photos attached caused unsuccessful welds every time due to their weak tension. The stronger clips are alligator clips which I solder filled and filed for a flat surface.

[bapgood]

You calling my clips wussy 

I have been thinking about rigging up something like the below. The bottom post would be fixed, and thinking the top post could be held down and a switch added to release the charge....or maybe just a swift bonk on the center post?

food for thought anyway....I know for me that with good eyes and sometimes shaky hands getting the perfect wire touch is a pita.

 

[Breaktru]

You calling my clips wussy 

I have been thinking about rigging up something like the below. The bottom post would be fixed, and thinking the top post could be held down and a switch added to release the charge....or maybe just a swift bonk on the center post?

food for thought anyway....I know for me that with good eyes and sometimes shaky hands getting the perfect wire touch is a pita.

That looks like and excellent idea Bradley. Could be the foolproof prototype. Now build it and let's know.

[MidnighToker]

I just have to say that (for tonight at least), I love Walmart...  She asked how many I wanted so I told her to just fill the bag.  In scavenging mode now...




ETA - I'm hoping to salvage one of the better Kodak housings for....well a housing 



2nd ETA - Just for giggles earlier I measured the juice coming off the transformer and two different units both output 286 volts, so there is a cap of sorts to what these flash circuits can do.

[Breaktru]

I just have to say that (for tonight at least), I love Walmart...  She asked how many I wanted so I told her to just fill the bag.  In scavenging mode now...

ETA - I'm hoping to salvage one of the better Kodak housings for....well a housing 

2nd ETA - Just for giggles earlier I measured the juice coming off the transformer and two different units both output 286 volts, so there is a cap of sorts to what these flash circuits can do.

Looks like you hit the jackpot.... yeah!
Be careful opening them. Some caps may be charged.

[sovran]

Just as an FYI

Like most have indicated the fuji doesn't have any plain markings (Breaktru reported finding out they are 120uF)

The Polaroid, Westen Family, and Kodak cameras I have been inside of, all have labeled 120uf 330v caps

help me out a bit here. I have the fuji. the two little ribbon contacts, was originally hooked to the charge function. are these closed then just install a momentary switch on one leg of the cap to charge? then touch the alligator clips attached to the cap to discharge?  This thread has gotten too long for us simpletons.

[sovran]

Looks like you hit the jackpot.... yeah!
Be careful opening them. Some caps may be charged.

Some? I have opened 3 so far and luckily I havent been caught in the arc. all 3 have discharged. I almost cant wait.... almost.

[Breaktru]

Some? I have opened 3 so far and luckily I havent been caught in the arc. all 3 have discharged. I almost cant wait.... almost.

I had 10 and one zapped me so I started measuring at the cap and 3 had over 200 volts still on the caps.

[Breaktru]

help me out a bit here. I have the fuji. the two little ribbon contacts, was originally hooked to the charge function. are these closed then just install a momentary switch on one leg of the cap to charge? then touch the alligator clips attached to the cap to discharge?  This thread has gotten too long for us simpletons.

I linked the time line to 7:47 to show where the contact wires go: http://youtu.be/ydwHahAbw2A?t=7m47s
Switch does not go on the cap.

[bapgood]

help me out a bit here. I have the fuji. the two little ribbon contacts, was originally hooked to the charge function. are these closed then just install a momentary switch on one leg of the cap to charge? then touch the alligator clips attached to the cap to discharge?  This thread has gotten too long for us simpletons.

I wish I had pics of the other side of the PCB's or at home with my stockpile but it sounds like you have the AA Fuji (there are few more differences between the AA and AAA than I originally thought). If memory serves the AA Fuji had a couple pads with multiple solder lines...something like this ||||    ||||....and the AAA have a couple of wires running to a couple of solder points on the PCB. If its a AA Fuji wire one side of your switch to one of the |||| pads and the other side to the other |||| pad, if its a AAA Fuji then one side to one of the solder points and the other to the other.

If this doesn't help I can take pics later this afternoon.

Eidt....Like breaktru shows above /|\....On a AAA Fuji wire the momentary switch to the yellow/? wire location and the blue/green wire location.

[MidnighToker]

Looks like you hit the jackpot.... yeah!
Be careful opening them. Some caps may be charged.

Yeah. I managed to get most of them opened with just one little zap. It was when I was sorting and trying to make sure they were discharged that I got nailed good a few times. DO NOT USE THE BATTERY TERMINAL AS A HANDLE. I'm still trying to figure out WTF was getting me by holding that copper strip and using pliers to short a 10k resistor to drain the caps.

help me out a bit here. I have the fuji. the two little ribbon contacts, was originally hooked to the charge function. are these closed then just install a momentary switch on one leg of the cap to charge? then touch the alligator clips attached to the cap to discharge?  This thread has gotten too long for us simpletons.

I'll try and get some closeups of the Fujis when I get home. Your momentary (charge switch) goes between the 2 pads that are like 3 or 4 parallel lines bunched up. There was a copper strip in the front half of the case that shorted those to charge the flash.

[MidnighToker]

I wish I had pics of the other side of the PCB's or at home with my stockpile but it sounds like you have the AA Fuji (there are few more differences between the AA and AAA than I originally thought). If memory serves the AA Fuji had a couple pads with multiple solder lines...something like this ||||    ||||....and the AAA have a couple of wires running to a couple of solder points on the PCB. If its a AA Fuji wire one side of your switch to one of the |||| pads and the other side to the other |||| pad, if its a AAA Fuji then one side to one of the solder points and the other to the other.

If this doesn't help I can take pics later this afternoon.

Eidt....Like breaktru shows above /|\....On a AAA Fuji wire the momentary switch to the yellow/? wire location and the blue/green wire location.

Now I see where there's some confusion.

There are TWO  (that I know of ATM) different Fuji boards.  One is using a AAA battery (which I believe is the one you are using bapgood.) and the the other is using a AA.  Seems that the AA model is the one that got the 120uf caps and the AAA got the 80uf ones.

This is the AAA version (that I have at least).  First pic is what it looks like when you first remove it, and the second shows the parallel lines for one side of the switch and I stuck a red wire stub where the other side goes. (Just above the "LM" in Fujufilm






And the AA version is OF COURSE completely different...... (momentary "charge" switch goes on each side of the groups of parallel lines)

[bapgood]

One is using a AAA battery (which I believe is the one you are using bapgood.)

I'm actually using one of each.

I'll see your 32 and raise you 8 



I have been running the AA on 3.3 volts to see how it does. I would eventually like to have it running of a pc power supply converted to a bench unit.

[MidnighToker]

I'm actually using one of each.

I'll see your 32 and raise you 8 



I have been running the AA on 3.3 volts to see how it does. I would eventually like to have it running of a pc power supply converted to a bench unit.

NICE!

I've actually been running them @ 1.2v on NiMH with iffy luck.  Will have to try a slightly drained Li-ion to see if that does any better.  Thinking it'll simply charge it faster 

(I actually just keep ripping the 80uf caps off and stacking them with the 120's....don't think I've tried 4 yet

[sovran]

I have the AA model. In midnighttokers last pic, in the bottom right you can barely make out the 2 ribbon contacts I was referring to. Understand I have never used a disposable camera but the case said lift for continuous flash which activated these contacts. I understand you cant have continuous flash since it takes time for cap to charge. What do you do with these contacts? Open or closed?

Breakthru I will have to watch that clip several times when not at work. I am pretty sure where one of the wires went but not the other, assuming this is the same board. When I get home I will solder the other two caps in parallel then rewatch the vid until I get it. Thank you all.

[bapgood]

I have the AA model. In midnighttokers last pic, in the bottom right you can barely make out the 2 ribbon contacts I was referring to. Understand I have never used a disposable camera but the case said lift for continuous flash which activated these contacts. I understand you cant have continuous flash since it takes time for cap to charge. What do you do with these contacts? Open or closed?

Breakthru I will have to watch that clip several times when not at work. I am pretty sure where one of the wires went but not the other, assuming this is the same board. When I get home I will solder the other two caps in parallel then rewatch the vid until I get it. Thank you all.

sovran, that is why you solder one side of the momentary switch to one of the pads and the other side of the switch to the other pad. That way when you push the momentary switch its only charging while your pushing it and stops when you let off, you do this while watching the meter to see what voltage your at.

[MidnighToker]

I have the AA model. In midnighttokers last pic, in the bottom right you can barely make out the 2 ribbon contacts I was referring to. Understand I have never used a disposable camera but the case said lift for continuous flash which activated these contacts. I understand you cant have continuous flash since it takes time for cap to charge. What do you do with these contacts? Open or closed?

Breakthru I will have to watch that clip several times when not at work. I am pretty sure where one of the wires went but not the other, assuming this is the same board. When I get home I will solder the other two caps in parallel then rewatch the vid until I get it. Thank you all.

If I'm understanding you correctly, I think you're asking about what to do with those contacts after you're wiring you're final setup???

Remove them. That is where you would put your momentary charge switch.

(I honestly have no clue what that "continuous change" meant other than that once the caps are "full", they really won't draw any more current than the transformer is putting out, so it's just like holding the charge switch down.

[sovran]

OK so leave those contacts open and by soldering to the pads you are bypassing that part of the circuit if I understand correctly.

[bapgood]

Sovran, sorry I didn't read close enough when you said last pic bottom right.....

You are talking about these things I believe. These are cut off and not used, they are what release the capacitor charge into the flash bulb on the camera.



These are the pads for wiring the momentary switch to. Sorry my square got a little big, but the vertical line pads.

[Breaktru]

Sovran, sorry I didn't read close enough when you said last pic bottom right.....

You are talking about these things I believe. These are cut off and not used, they are what release the capacitor charge into the flash bulb on the camera.

These are the pads for wiring the momentary switch to. Sorry my square got a little big, but the vertical line pads.

I concur... yes em

The extended contacts trigger the flash bulb which we are not using. You can leave it on the board and just cut off the copper tangs.
The momentary/charge switch which is wired to the pads will charge the caps.

[bapgood]

I lied earlier about the AAA Fuji having wires, it actually has a clip.

I will try to show the differences and the connections.

The one on the left is the AAA Fuji....The right is the AA Fuji




Here is the AAA...Left to Right...New - Battery and charge clips removed - orange wires to momentary switch, red to battery positive, black to battery negative




Here is the AA...Left to Right...New - Battery clips removed (some have left on the battery clips and used them) - brown wires to momentary switch, red to battery positive, black to battery negative




Just a note the battery + and - are opposite relative to the board orientation between the AA and AAA Fuji

[sovran]

Thanks. I got this now. Plenty of time to to practice my wire welding skills while I wait for a terminator.

[Breaktru]

Capacitor voltage is being drained due to the Low Input Impedance of the Digital Meters I bought.
A 10M or more input impedance is recommended.
The two meters were connected separately for the test. The video show two together.
Meters were from www.wonmeter.com I don't recommend them.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guuOceE0t0k&feature=youtu.be

I calculated the input impedance of the two meters.
The top meter 0-100v is 76k
The bottom 0-333.3v is 985k
See HERE for details.

Update:
By adding a resistor in series with the Low Input Impedance of the panel meter, you can prevent bleed down of the cap voltage.
Calculate the resistor to match your DMM voltage to the panel meter. Total resistance should be around 10M ohm. I used the 0-333.3v meter and got it to read 7.50v which on the DMM is really 75v.
The internal input impedance of 985k for the PM is close to a 1M ohm so adding approximately 9M ohm will do it. Trial and error was used to get accurate results.

This is the meter I use for my OHM and Volt Welder. It is a 100M ohm High input impedance: DIGITAL PANEL METER, LCD,2.7 INCH x 1.7 INCH
You will also need this: Used to finely tune your panel meter.

USER MANUAL

[bapgood]

Capacitor voltage is being drained due to the Low Input Impedance of the Digital Meters.
A 10M or more input impedance is recommended.
The two meters were connected separately for the test. The video show two together.
Meters were from www.wonmeter.com

Bummer 

[Papa Hoyt]

So is there anyway off adding impedance without affecting voltage reading? I am pretty sure the answer will be short.........

So where can we get these meters with 10m or more impedance?

[bapgood]

So is there anyway off adding impedance without affecting voltage reading? I am pretty sure the answer will be short.........

So where can we get these meters with 10m or more impedance?

I use this $20 dmm from harbor freight and it works and seems decent all around. Its just a dmm.....I'm also waiting for breaktru to find a good meter/display 

[Breaktru]

So is there anyway off adding impedance without affecting voltage reading? I am pretty sure the answer will be short.........

So where can we get these meters with 10m or more impedance?

The answer is short... NO. without affecting the voltage reading.
However, by adding a resistor in series to the meter, I was able to get the meter very stable with NO drop. The consequence is an incorrect LOW reading. If you can deal with that, it will work. I tried to go as low as I can. A 1 meg ohm was N/G so I used two 10megs in parallel with the resulting resistance of 5 meg. Worked good. So now my 75.00v shows as 12.00v on the meter.

[Papa Hoyt]

I would rather just buy a meter that will work so I can build a self contained unit.

if anyone finds one I am sure that others would like this as well and if i find one then I will be sure to post it right here

[MidnighToker]

Capacitor voltage is being drained due to the Low Input Impedance of the Digital Meters.
A 10M or more input impedance is recommended.
The two meters were connected separately for the test. The video show two together.
Meters were from www.wonmeter.com


I calculated the input impedance of the two meters.
The top meter 0-100v is 76k
The bottom 0-333.3v is 985k

This ALMOST makes me want to check my DMMs to see where they are, but as the drop off stops after a few that makes too much extra work.  Can spend that time dissecting and breaking so many other things...... (And with the price tag they carried, they'd BETTER be stable enough dammit!)

[Breaktru]

It's really approximately 74.7v with a 10meg resistor in series w/ the panel meter which is now very stable and prevents cap bleed down. Meter had a low input impedance of less than 1M ohm.

[Breaktru]

This video was in the Simplified Electronics, Easy Tutorial section of this forum:

Video:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoWMF3VkI6U>

[charming]

I made a Sparkomatic with a camera flash rather than a dc converter. It's cheap and easy and works great. I do not see why some are bent on voltage, capacitance, spark flash, yada, yada yada. I put the wires together and zap. I made a coil. It's as easy as that. Thanks buddy.
Oh, I used one extra cap like you did. Basically I followed your instructions. 

[Breaktru]

Successful welds one after the other. Can't be any easier.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6csTiN9nM00&feature=youtu.be

[kortt]

Great job!  Pretty fine work lining those wires up by the looks ....I'd have to do it under the cc tv magnifier lol.

[Breaktru]

Great job!  Pretty fine work lining those wires up by the looks ....I'd have to do it under the cc tv magnifier lol.

Thanks, had to do it by eye too. Got to hook up my laptop to the camera next time so I can see it magnified like shown in the video.

[kortt]

Thanks, had to do it by eye too. Got to hook up my laptop to the camera next time so I can see it magnified like shown in the video.

There's probably a way to make some sort of fixture that will hold the wire in place.

[Breaktru]

There's probably a way to make some sort of fixture that will hold the wire in place.

We thought about it and some had good ideas but no one has actually made one. I have one end secured in a fixed clip and the other I use two hands while braced against my bench. Still a bit shaky but better.

I did make something out of the hollow of a Bic Pen with two bolts. One on top, one on the bottom with leads attached. A pin hole in the middle of the pen tube for the wires. I rammed the top bolt down to make contact for welding. Didn't work too good.

[Breaktru]

Another Spark-O-Matic w/ multi-function binding posts.
See attached............

[bapgood]

Another Spark-O-Matic w/ multi-function binding posts.
See attached............

Now your just getting fancy  ....but where is the display fancy pants 

Haha looks good

[Breaktru]

Now your just getting fancy  ....but where is the display fancy pants 

Haha looks good

Ha, ha, keeping costs down. This is not for me.

[xMackx]

Can't wait to try making one of these things for myself when i get a camera.

[Breaktru]

Can't wait to try making one of these things for myself when i get a camera.

Hey Mack, welcome to the forum. I'm sure you will enjoy making and using it.
Picked up a few more freebie cameras at the local chain pharmacy.

[Breaktru]

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL33GCAicf4&feature=youtu.be

[kortt]

Just getting better and better! 

[MidnighToker]

Dammit!!!  I can NOT get any decent welds on this.  Gotta get some nickel NR wire to try.  I've tried 5 different types of clips, varying the voltage, adding/removing caps.  Still always get this crappy little spot weld that won't hold for shit.

[Breaktru]

Dammit!!!  I can NOT get any decent welds on this.  Gotta get some nickel NR wire to try.  I've tried 5 different types of clips, varying the voltage, adding/removing caps.  Still always get this crappy little spot weld that won't hold for $#!+.

Here is what I found and reconfirmed it with making more Spark-O's. The Capacitance that works is exactly 340uF. Not more, Not less. I've tried it. The voltage that works is 74v-75v. Not higher not lower. Not even by one volt. Depending on your meter calibration it might be slightly different.

Oh.. forgot to mention. I've used FujiFilm and Kodak and both results the same.

[ChainVaper]

Here is what I found and reconfirmed it with making more Spark-O's. The Capacitance that works is exactly 340uF. Not more, Not less. I've tried it. The voltage that works is 74v-75v. Not higher not lower. Not even by one volt. Depending on your meter calibration it might be slightly different.

Oh.. forgot to mention. I've used FujiFilm and Kodak and both results the same.

I was going crazy trying to weld. I had given up but now I can do it too. Thanks Dave. I did exactly as you mentioned and Wa-La... success!
Good thing I had extra cameras. Got about 5 from a photo Dev store.
And also some practice helped. Got my stock of coils now and ready to go.

Sorry Dave, I've been stalking these threads and haven't logged on since Sept. While the forum was in maintenance mode, I read your notice about contributing to the forum by logging on and posting. Well here it is and thank you for all your hard work on this wonderful forum.

[urquidezj]

awesome progress breaktru
good thing i got midnight toker on this, cuz i have ZERO idea whats going on here hehe, threw the headache on him.
dam i havent posted since i started vaping lol 

[Breaktru]

awesome progress breaktru
good thing i got midnight toker on this, cuz i have ZERO idea whats going on here hehe, threw the headache on him.
dam i havent posted since i started vaping lol 

Good to see you participating. We will try to get Midnight to get it down pat. Hey Toker, can you at least weld Nichrome to Nichrome or Kanthal to Kanthal as a test?

[Breaktru]

I just added another schematic/drawing for the Kodak boards at: Kodak type boards Log on to see images.