The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making

[Breaktru]

Hello,
I'm new to this forum too and also wanted to thank everyone for their contribution to this thread... most of all to Breaktru for sharing and starting it up!   

Welcome to the forum nahoku. I am happy to share with the modding community.

[nahoku]

Welcome to the forum nahoku. I am happy to share with the modding community.

Thanks Breaktru!

[Breaktru]

If you can not get used flash cameras, Electronic Goldmine has them on sale. 10 for $4.00
SALE! Super Strobe Board (Package of 10)

[Statistic]

Just want to say thanks as well for this thread. I just got my zapper zapping tonight

A girl at Walgreens gave me 3 Kodak's. Two had 80µF caps in them and the boards are almost identical to the diagram. The other one, a Power Flash model, has a 160µF cap and the board is really cool looking.. it's red

Thanks Breaktru, there may be hope yet for my Terminator.

[fsors]

If you can not get used flash cameras, Electronic Goldmine has them on sale. 10 for $4.00
SALE! Super Strobe Board (Package of 10)

cheap weldi ng 

[Breaktru]

Just want to say thanks as well for this thread. I just got my zapper zapping tonight

A girl at Walgreens gave me 3 Kodak's. Two had 80µF caps in them and the boards are almost identical to the diagram. The other one, a Power Flash model, has a 160µF cap and the board is really cool looking.. it's red

Thanks Breaktru, there may be hope yet for my Terminator.

Cool. Free is good 
and..... happy Sparking

[Lobot]

Greetings Breaktru forum. first time poster. long time lurker. i just got 3 fuji cameras from cvs (free got to love knowing managers) 1 was the AA model the other 2 were AAA models. the caps have no markings on them. any idea on what size they are? or should i just buy some fresh caps?

[Breaktru]

Greetings Breaktru forum. first time poster. long time lurker. i just got 3 fuji cameras from cvs (free got to love knowing managers) 1 was the AA model the other 2 were AAA models. the caps have no markings on them. any idea on what size they are? or should i just buy some fresh caps?

Thanks Lobot for participating. The narrator in the FUJI CAMERA FLASH MOD video in this thread, says the cap is a 120uF. Not sure if he's talking about the AA or AAA model.
Looking at the physical size of the cap and comparing the size to the Kodak caps which are marked, I'm guessing they may actually be 80uF for the AAA and maybe 100uF for the AA.
If you use the single cap on the AAA camera try welding at about 120v. The more capacitance you add the lower the voltage setting. But I did experiment and found 340uF worked the best for me at 74v - 76v. I tried lower and higher capacitance.

You can pick up some cheap camera caps HERE or get some more free cameras and parallel some caps taken from the them.

[PoppaVic60]

Sadly, now listing $14.90

If you can not get used flash cameras, Electronic Goldmine has them on sale. 10 for $4.00
SALE! Super Strobe Board (Package of 10)

[Breaktru]

Sadly, now listing $14.90

They have another link for $1.00 a piece or buy 10 @ $0.85 a piece HERE also listed on the #1 original post.

[PoppaVic60]

Yep, thanks..

Planning on a couple of those and 2x as many of the caps.

[Bocephus]

I haven't tried this meter but it is a 100M ohm High input impedance: DIGITAL PANEL METER, LCD,2.7 INCH x 1.7 INCH
You will also need this: Used to finely tune your panel meter.

Hey Breaktru or anyone for that matter have you tried that meter you linked by chance yet? Would it be a good choice to stick in a sparko? I have a cheapo meter I use for most things but would like to add one to the welder and the price is fine for me if it will work.

[Breaktru]

Hey Breaktru or anyone for that matter have you tried that meter you linked by chance yet? Would it be a good choice to stick in a sparko? I have a cheapo meter I use for most things but would like to add one to the welder and the price is fine for me if it will work.

I haven't tried it but it should work just fine.

[Bocephus]

Good enough for me. Think Ill give it a shot.

[edsback41]

Who would like to sell me a completed Spark-o-matic? Please?
How much?
Do you have Paypal?

[clim1983]

How do I setup the wiring for the charge button on the Kodak? I just see that you solder jumper the area

[Breaktru]

How do I setup the wiring for the charge button on the Kodak? I just see that you solder jumper the area

Did you view the schematic HERE

[clim1983]

Did you view the schematic HERE

I finally got a prototype to work but it one worked twice and after that it stopped working... I'm going to rebuild another one and a cleaner one so hopefully this runs smoothly! Thanks Breaktru!!!

[Breaktru]

I finally got a prototype to work but it one worked twice and after that it stopped working... I'm going to rebuild another one and a cleaner one so hopefully this runs smoothly! Thanks Breaktru!!!

Have you checked the battery? I find they don't last long.

[clim1983]

Have you checked the battery? I find they don't last long.

I tried so many batteries and I do hear the charge but when I touch the wires nothing happens. Do you think I can use a AW IMR 14500 battery safely?

[Breaktru]

I tried so many batteries and I do hear the charge but when I touch the wires nothing happens. Do you think I can use a AW IMR 14500 battery safely?

I think the 14500 (3.7v) will damage the flash board. It's designed to work with 1.5v.
Did you put a meter on the zap leads or across the cap? Maybe it's not charging long enough.

[bustedf00]

Hi All,

Great Thread!.

I have a few questions. Maybe someone could answer me. I notice the camera board rated 1.5v, so 1 double AA battery should power it up. But the LCD voltmeter screen rated 4.5-12v to power it.

Could I run just a 9v battery to power both the LCD Screen and the Camera board? If yes, please let me know if I need to run any Resistor and maybe how too. Thanks in advance.

HELP! please!

Thanks

[Breaktru]

Hi All,

Great Thread!.

I have a few questions. Maybe someone could answer me. I notice the camera board rated 1.5v, so 1 double AA battery should power it up. But the LCD voltmeter screen rated 4.5-12v to power it.

Could I run just a 9v battery to power both the LCD Screen and the Camera board? If yes, please let me know if I need to run any Resistor and maybe how too. Thanks in advance.

HELP! please!

Thanks

I used a AA battery for the board and a 9v for the meter.
If you would like to run off of the one 9v battery for both, you will need to build a voltage divider as shown in the image attached below.

Vin = 9v
R1 = 20K
R2 = 4.7K
Vout = 1.713v

Resistor can be from 1% to 5% tolerance and 1/8 to 1/4 watt.

DO NOT BUILD THIS CIRCUIT
A voltage divider will not work for the flash board circuit due to its load. Under load the voltage drops to a half of volt. I tried several configurations and even at 8v for Vout, it still drops to a half of volt.

[bustedf00]

Thank you Breaktru.

I am just wondering where did you buy your LCD meter and abs enclosure?

What size are the enclosure?

Thanks

[Breaktru]

Thank you Breaktru.

I am just wondering where did you buy your LCD meter and abs enclosure?

What size are the enclosure?

Thanks

I had mentioned in this topic about avoiding using a cheap meter because of their LOW input impedance. Low impedance will slowly discharge the capacitor causing a poor weld. See Reply #102 about using a meter with 10Meg or higher input impedance.

See the bottom link in this post for a Panel Meter with 100 Meg: Panel Meter Note: NOT the one from Wonmeter.

Enclosures:
   Better: Serpac 032
   Cheaper: ABS PROJECT BOX, 4" X 3" X 1.6"

Test Jacks:
   Can be used by them selves or with test plug. Jack can accept a stripped wire thru the side or plug jack into the top.
   Deltron Test Plugs & Test Jacks Black OR Black and Red OR Red
   Banana Plug (optional) Red and Black
   OR Black - Red

Stranded Wire:
  Use 20 gauge Wire

Push Button Switches:
  Black PB
  Red PB
  Green PB

On/Off Switches:
  Rocker Type (Do NOT use a Lighted Sw)
  Slide Type
  Toggle Type

Discharge Resistor:
  Select a 15K resistor here

[bustedf00]

Thanks Breaktru for the help.

I have just build one with a camera. added additional cap.
My mod spec:
 160uf + 270uf = 430uf
 LCD Rated 0-99v
ran 2 power source AA/9v for LCD.
Created a divider for the LCD example 75v will read 7.5v.
R1 9.1m and R2 1m = 10m or so.

The problem i have is when i charge up to 1v of the LCD display and I attached a voltmeter to compare. The voltmeter reading is much higher example LCD shows 1.1v and voltmeter reads out 66.x volts. It is really off by almost 50v 

Could you please tell me what you think i am doing wrong?
How could i get a more accurate reading displaying on my LCD?

Thanks

[Breaktru]

Thanks Breaktru for the help.

I have just build one with a camera. added additional cap.
My mod spec:
 160uf + 270uf = 430uf
 LCD Rated 0-99v
ran 2 power source AA/9v for LCD.
Created a divider for the LCD example 75v will read 7.5v.
R1 9.1m and R2 1m = 10m or so.

The problem i have is when i charge up to 1v of the LCD display and I attached a voltmeter to compare. The voltmeter reading is much higher example LCD shows 1.1v and voltmeter reads out 66.x volts. It is really off by almost 50v 

Could you please tell me what you think i am doing wrong?
How could i get a more accurate reading displaying on my LCD?

Thanks

The voltage divider I showed was to get 1.7v to power the flashboard from a 9v battery. How are you using it? Do you have a drawing on what you did?
What digital meter are you using?

[bustedf00]

I used a AA battery for the board and a 9v for the meter.
If you would like to run off of the one 9v battery for both, you will need to build a voltage divider as shown in the image attached below.

Vin = 9v
R1 = 20K
R2 = 4.7K
Vout = 1.713v

Resistor can be from 1% to 5% tolerance and 1/8 to 1/4 watt.

The voltage divider I showed was to get 1.7v to power the flashboard from a 9v battery. How are you using it? Do you have a drawing on what you did?
What digital meter are you using?

No, I am currently at work and I don't have a drawing sorry. It looks like the drawing you have provide me for the 9v. only difference is I ran the LCD display to the +/- other end direct to Cap.  R1 9m and r2 1m total 10m resistor

I am currently using a cheap $5 voltmeter.

Thanks

[Breaktru]

The 9v battery alone will power the Display. That is if the meter requires a separate power source. The voltage divider is used if you were using only the 9v battery and not the 1.5 AA battery.
You said you were using both a 1.5v AA and a 9v battery, so get rid of the voltage divider.
If you are trying to do something like I did for LOW impedance meters, a series resistor was used to bring up the impedance resistance as mentioned ---> HERE

OR...... you can use this $7.95 meter: 100M ohm High input impedance: DIGITAL PANEL METER, LCD,2.7 INCH x 1.7 INCH
You will also need this: Used to finely tune your panel meter.

[bustedf00]

the Display LCD has 3 wires red, black and a white. The only reason I ran it the way i did is because the LCD is rated 0-99v plus I wanted to read 7.5v = 75v. 

here is the spec of my LCD hope that helps..
Measurement accuracy: ±0.1%
Refresh rate: about 200mS/times
Display: Three 0.56 "digital tube
Measuring range: DC 0V-99.9V
Input range: DC 4V-30V
Display Color: Blue
Operating current: Less than 8mA
Operating temperature: -10°c -65°c
Input impedance: About 100K
Reverse polarity protection: Yes
Weight?20g
Dimensions: 48 x 29 x 22 mm (1 7/8 x 1 5/32 x 7/8 in )

I guess I would want to do 10Meg or higher input impedance as well. Is there anyway to keep my current LCD and make it display the correct volts?

Thanks so much for the help.

[Breaktru]

the Display LCD has 3 wires red, black and a white. The only reason I ran it the way i did is because the LCD is rated 0-99v plus I wanted to read 7.5v = 75v. 

here is the spec of my LCD hope that helps..
Measurement accuracy: ±0.1%
Refresh rate: about 200mS/times
Display: Three 0.56 "digital tube
Measuring range: DC 0V-99.9V
Input range: DC 4V-30V
Display Color: Blue
Operating current: Less than 8mA
Operating temperature: -10°c -65°c
Input impedance: About 100K
Reverse polarity protection: Yes
Weight?20g
Dimensions: 48 x 29 x 22 mm (1 7/8 x 1 5/32 x 7/8 in )

I guess I would want to do 10Meg or higher input impedance as well. Is there anyway to keep my current LCD and make it display the correct volts?

Thanks so much for the help.

If your DM is 100k input impedance then you are going to need approximately 9.9M ohm to bring it up to 10M. Some tweaking is necessary to correspond the 75v to exactly 7.5v. I had to play a lot with resistors to get it close.
My advise is to series a fixed 5 meg ohm resistor to a 5 meg ohm trimmer pot so you can easily tweak it.
5M Trimmer and a 5M fixed resistor

[bustedf00]

Sorry for all the noob questions.

Do you have a drawing on how to run the resistor to 9.9m in  series (input impedance)?   Please!

By removing the divider I have made, would I get a more correct reading? I assume I just can't go over 99v since the DM rated at 0-99v. Correct?

input impedance  increase (10m) I would have a more stable volts?

[Breaktru]

Sorry for all the noob questions.

Do you have a drawing on how to run the resistor to 9.9m in  series (input impedance)?   Please!

By removing the divider I have made, would I get a more correct reading? I assume I just can't go over 99v since the DM rated at 0-99v. Correct?

input impedance  increase (10m) I would have a more stable volts?

With the resistors in series with the DM, you will never have to worry about exceeding the DM's max voltage. Remember 75v will read as 7.5v on the DM so 99v on the DM would actually be 990v. Way more than the Flash board max voltage.

See this drawing I have attached below

[bustedf00]

With the resistors in series with the DM, you will never have to worry about exceeding the DM's max voltage. Remember 75v will read as 7.5v on the DM so 99v on the DM would actually be 990v. Way more than the Flash board max voltage.

See this drawing I have attached below

Do I have to use the 2 5meg fixed/trimmer?

I have currently resistor different ranges can total it to 10meg more or less, can I used resistor and would that be run the same as the drawing?

One more thing from your drawing. Where you have the 15k for discharge. I notice there is a break right there. Could you please give me a little more instructions to run that correctly.

Thanks

[Mr. Tattoo]

Hello all I just wanted to thank Breaktru and everyone else that has contributed you all rock 

[Mr. Tattoo]

Quick question how long will a AA battery last in the Spark-O-Matic

[Breaktru]

Do I have to use the 2 5meg fixed/trimmer?

Look closer.. The text next to the components states what it is. The top one says: "5 Meg Trimmer/Pot" the one below it says: "5 Meg Fixed Resistor". So the answer is NO. One is a pot in series w/ a resistor.

I have currently resistor different ranges can total it to 10meg more or less, can I used resistor and would that be run the same as the drawing?

Yes you can use resistors instead but let me warn you that it will take a lot of trial and error to get the EXACT results. Been there.

One more thing from your drawing. Where you have the 15k for discharge. I notice there is a break right there. Could you please give me a little more instructions to run that correctly.

Again, look closer. The text tells you that it is a "Discharge P.B." P.B. is a PUSH BUTTON. As the drawing shows, it is a Normally Open switch.
If you click on the image it will open for a larger view.

[bustedf00]

Perfect!

Thanks again for all the great info.

[Breaktru]

Quick question how long will a AA battery last in the Spark-O-Matic

I haven't done a longevity test but they do not seem to last very long. Then again, I'm using the batteries from the cameras I got for free (couple of dozen). Haven't tried a brand new one yet.

[Mr. Tattoo]

Thanks Breaktru I was curious about the batteries that came in them . I am just about done with my Spark-O-Matic this is going to be so much better then twisting wires. 

[Mr. Tattoo]

Thanks to my local Walgreen's I will use up the free batteries first     

[Mr. Tattoo]

No more sticking my fingers     Just made 2 coils and worked perfectly! I used 3 caps 2 that came in the Fuji AA camera and one that came in the Fuji AAA camera I decided not to use the LED's I had. I tried charging for 4sec but was to hot then tried 2 sec and thats my magic # Thank you all so much this is awesome..

[Breaktru]

No more sticking my fingers     Just made 2 coils and worked perfectly! I used 3 caps 2 that came in the Fuji AA camera and one that came in the Fuji AAA camera I decided not to use the LED's I had. I tried charging for 4sec but was to hot then tried 2 sec and thats my magic # Thank you all so much this is awesome..

Nice work 
Congrats on your successful welds. Most first time users don't have that luck and need practice with the technique.

[Mr. Tattoo]

TY...I am a Tattoo artist and have a pretty steady hand so I am sure that helps. I do plan on making a stationary ground post as I think it will make it even easier as you have stated in a previous reply...Much thanks again..

[bustedf00]

Look closer.. The text next to the components states what it is. The top one says: "5 Meg Trimmer/Pot" the one below it says: "5 Meg Fixed Resistor". So the answer is NO. One is a pot in series w/ a resistor.
Yes you can use resistors instead but let me warn you that it will take a lot of trial and error to get the EXACT results. Been there.
Again, look closer. The text tells you that it is a "Discharge P.B." P.B. is a PUSH BUTTON. As the drawing shows, it is a Normally Open switch.
If you click on the image it will open for a larger view.

Ok, Great News!

I have found the right series of resistor to get the DM to read correctly with a Voltmeter tester.
I cant seem to get 10m the voltmeter tester reads 40-50v higher than the LCD DM.

I have ran in series 1m, 1m, 470k= 2.47m that seems to do the trick. both Voltmeter tester and LCD DM match voltage as it goes up and goes down. drop rates is pretty slow pretty stable.

Thanks again for all your help.

[Breaktru]

Ok, Great News!

I have found the right series of resistor to get the DM to read correctly with a Voltmeter tester.
I cant seem to get 10m the voltmeter tester reads 40-50v higher than the LCD DM.

I have ran in series 1m, 1m, 470k= 2.47m that seems to do the trick. both Voltmeter tester and LCD DM match voltage as it goes up and goes down. drop rates is pretty slow pretty stable.

Thanks again for all your help.

Good to hear that you got it to work. Sounds as though the DM input impedance was NOT 100K but much higher if you only needed 2.47m. I had posted previously the link to measure the exact input impedance of a DM but that does not matter now that you got it working.

[bustedf00]

I used a AA battery for the board and a 9v for the meter.
If you would like to run off of the one 9v battery for both, you will need to build a voltage divider as shown in the image attached below.

Vin = 9v
R1 = 20K
R2 = 4.7K
Vout = 1.713v

Resistor can be from 1% to 5% tolerance and 1/8 to 1/4 watt.

Hi Breaktru,

So i try to set a divider to power both with just a 9v battery.

I have run it with your instruction. got Vin to read 9.1v and Vout 1.7 on the divider.

I connected Vout to 1 switch (board) and Vin to 9v then out to  2nd switch (LCD DM)

It won't power the Board, only power up LCD. What do you think seems to be the problems.

Thanks

[Breaktru]

Hi Breaktru,

So i try to set a divider to power both with just a 9v battery.

I have run it with your instruction. got Vin to read 9.1v and Vout 1.7 on the divider.

I connected Vout to 1 switch (board) and Vin to 9v then out to  2nd switch (LCD DM)

It won't power the Board, only power up LCD. What do you think seems to be the problems.

Thanks

Did you put a test meter to Vout and try connecting the neg of the board that went to the AA battery to the Vout neg.

update: the voltage divider to power to use a single 9v battery does not work. Use two batteries. A 9v and a 1.5v AA

[bustedf00]

I think I will just have to settle for both batteries. Thanks again. try to zap last night and it was a perfect zap 30g  resist A1 wire with 30g NR nick wire. at 75volt.  zapped.

my spec:
160+270 = 430uf 70-80 volts seems to be a good starting point.


New questions. Notice you put on the drawing Pwr LED. I can't seem to find a LED that will take only 1 AA battery. 

Can you please direct me to the right directions?

would  i need to run any resistor?


Thanks for all your help again.

[Breaktru]

New questions. Notice you put on the drawing Pwr LED. I can't seem to find a LED that will take only 1 AA battery. 

Can you please direct me to the right directions?

would  i need to run any resistor?


Thanks for all your help again.

The On/Off L.E.D. is optional. If you would like to use one, you will need to build this simple "Joule Thief" circuit --> Shown Here