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Breaktru Forum  |  eCigarette Forum  |  DIY eJuice  |  Topic: Tutorial on steeping; for those just starting to mix
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Author Topic: Tutorial on steeping; for those just starting to mix  (Read 9905 times)

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Offline Erck89

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Tutorial on steeping; for those just starting to mix
« on: September 01, 2013, 11:06:00 AM »
  I am not sure if this is the right spot for a tutorial, but I know our admins will know and put where it belongs.
:beer-toast:   As time goes on, you will find this is a fine group of people, who will help you as much as they can.  I have addressed this subject so many times I think I will find one of the tomes and copy it into the tutorials.  This is a pleasure today.  Most of the time I am doing this at 12 or 1 o'clock in the morning.  Starting while I feel fresh is wonderful  :rockin smiley: 

    Let me start by pointing out, no one forces you to steep.  That is your choice.  However, if you want the true flavor of your mix,  most of the time you MUST steep.  That said, this is chemistry!  Pure and simple, add a little solvent, mix in some acid, and marry it to a plant extract and you get an elixir that smells and taste like strawberries or some other human delight. Leave that same juice to steep and meld and you have a strawberry jam like grandma use to make.  Why, because, this is chemistry, not rocket science.  Rocket science, you work your ass off to get everything mixed in just right, then you stick a match to its tail and you instantly have the final results of your endeavors. We on the other hand, introduce strangers from the far corners of who knows where and ask them to play a symphony they have never heard before.  (Damn, I love these metafores.  I'm going to do his in the morning from now on.)  It is not going to be as wonderful the first day as it will after they have had time to practice. 

    That said, let me throw a monkeywrench in too confuse things a bit.  There are certain flavors that, when mixed as singles, require NO steeping.  Let me reword that,  Most flavors, when mixed alone require LITTLE or NO steeping.  It is easier to tell you the worst of the lot, than identify all the ones that do well without steeping when mixed as a single.  I think the worst is peach.  Peach can take from 3 to 6 weeks (Yes, Ethel, he said weeks) to attain that wonderful, sweet smell and taste.  I think that this paragraph BASICALLY explains why we need to steep when mixing two or more concentrates into a vaping delight.  Now the process.

    Hold your ears.  I'm going to yell.  DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT STEEP IN THE MICROWAVE!!!  Regardless of what the guy who has been mixing and vaping since 1795 tells you, don't do it.  Remember, I said these concentrates  are made from chemicals?  Some of those chemicals have a very low flash point.  For instance:  The chemical that give you that nice Turkish Tobacco taste, has a flash point of 212 degrees F.  Now that is at full strength, but,  strange thing happen when you play with the chemistry set.  Throw in this and that and you may have supplied a catalyst that makes the chemical more volital .   Please notice;  PG, VG, nic, and some of the concentrates are quite thick.  Unless you put some water or alcohol in, these thick fluids are not going to jump into each others laps.  The are going to layer.  OH Yea, the guy in the back hollers out.  I shake the hell out of my mixes.  Try this.  In a graduated cylinder, bigger than 10ml, if you have it, put the following:

                  PG = 4.75ml
                  VG = 1.75ml
                  Cherry = 1.2ml     Use a concentrate like Wizard Lab's.  It is a bright red color
                  Capt. Black = 1.8
                  MTS = 3 drops
                                               *If you don't have a suitable cylinder to mix 10ml and see the action, mix a 5ml batch.  That will fit in a 10ml cylinder


    When you have these in the cylinder.  Put your thumb over the top and shake it.  After shaking, notice the red stuff is still isolated in the middle.  Now, you have seen, with your own eyes, why we need to steep.  Now, put your mix into a bottle and cap it.  This is where the micro comes into play.  Boil about a cup or a cup and a half of water.  When it boils, remove it from the micro and put the closed bottle of mix into the boiling water.  About every 5 minutes, take the bottle out and shake it.  Let the juice stay in the water until it has cooled to the tepid stage.  Notice, all the contents have mixed.  You just, at the very least, started the steeping process.  You can vape it now and get a better idea of how it is going to finish.  The longer it sits the better it should get.  Also, the richer you mix, the more important steeping become.

   Without getting all PHD here, I think you should have a better understanding of why steeping is necessary.  Remember, this dissertation primarily addressed the process from a mechanical point of view.  However, chemically, the same principals are at play.  I hope his has been of help and has not been b o r i n g .  Also, enjoy the juice you made, it is really good.  Even for those who don't like tobacco flavors to much.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 01:36:08 PM by Breaktru »

Online Breaktru

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Re: Tutorial on steeping; for those just starting to mix
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2013, 07:56:07 PM »
Nice going Eric. Thank you for taking the time to post your tutorial  :applaude:

Offline midnightron

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Re: Tutorial on steeping; for those just starting to mix
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2013, 03:21:55 PM »
  I am not sure if this is the right spot for a tutorial, but I know our admins will know and put where it belongs.
:beer-toast:   As time goes on, you will find this is a fine group of people, who will help you as much as they can.  I have addressed this subject so many times I think I will find one of the tomes and copy it into the tutorials.  This is a pleasure today.  Most of the time I am doing this at 12 or 1 o'clock in the morning.  Starting while I feel fresh is wonderful  :rockin smiley: 

    Let me start by pointing out, no one forces you to steep.  That is your choice.  However, if you want the true flavor of your mix,  most of the time you MUST steep.  That said, this is chemistry!  Pure and simple, add a little solvent, mix in some acid, and marry it to a plant extract and you get an elixir that smells and taste like strawberries or some other human delight. Leave that same juice to steep and meld and you have a strawberry jam like grandma use to make.  Why, because, this is chemistry, not rocket science.  Rocket science, you work your****off to get everything mixed in just right, then you stick a match to its tail and you instantly have the final results of your endeavors. We on the other hand, introduce strangers from the far corners of who knows where and ask them to play a symphony they have never heard before.  (****, I love these metafores.  I'm going to do his in the morning from now on.)  It is not going to be as wonderful the first day as it will after they have had time to practice. 

    That said, let me throw a monkeywrench in too confuse things a bit.  There are certain flavors that, when mixed as singles, require NO steeping.  Let me reword that,  Most flavors, when mixed alone require LITTLE or NO steeping.  It is easier to tell you the worst of the lot, than identify all the ones that do well without steeping when mixed as a single.  I think the worst is peach.  Peach can take from 3 to 6 weeks (Yes, Ethel, he said weeks) to attain that wonderful, sweet smell and taste.  I think that this paragraph BASICALLY explains why we need to steep when mixing two or more concentrates into a vaping delight.  Now the process.

    Hold your ears.  I'm going to yell.  DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT STEEP IN THE MICROWAVE!!!  Regardless of what the guy who has been mixing and vaping since 1795 tells you, don't do it.  Remember, I said these concentrates  are made from chemicals?  Some of those chemicals have a very low flash point.  For instance:  The chemical that give you that nice Turkish Tobacco taste, has a flash point of 212 degrees F.  Now that is at full strength, but,  strange thing happen when you play with the chemistry set.  Throw in this and that and you may have supplied a catalyst that makes the chemical more volital .   Please notice;  PG, VG, nic, and some of the concentrates are quite thick.  Unless you put some water or alcohol in, these thick fluids are not going to jump into each others laps.  The are going to layer.  OH Yea, the guy in the back hollers out.  I shake the hell out of my mixes.  Try this.  In a graduated cylinder, bigger than 10ml, if you have it, put the following:

                  PG = 4.75ml
                  VG = 1.75ml
                  Cherry = 1.2ml     Use a concentrate like Wizard Lab's.  It is a bright red color
                  Capt. Black = 1.8
                  MTS = 3 drops
                                               *If you don't have a suitable cylinder to mix 10ml and see the action, mix a 5ml batch.  That will fit in a 10ml cylinder


    When you have these in the cylinder.  Put your thumb over the top and shake it.  After shaking, notice the red stuff is still isolated in the middle.  Now, you have seen, with your own eyes, why we need to steep.  Now, put your mix into a bottle and cap it.  This is where the micro comes into play.  Boil about a cup or a cup and a half of water.  When it boils, remove it from the micro and put the closed bottle of mix into the boiling water.  About every 5 minutes, take the bottle out and shake it.  Let the juice stay in the water until it has cooled to the tepid stage.  Notice, all the contents have mixed.  You just, at the very least, started the steeping process.  You can vape it now and get a better idea of how it is going to finish.  The longer it sits the better it should get.  Also, the richer you mix, the more important steeping become.

   Without getting all PHD here, I think you should have a better understanding of why steeping is necessary.  Remember, this dissertation primarily addressed the process from a mechanical point of view.  However, chemically, the same principals are at play.  I hope his has been of help and has not been b o r i n g .  Also, enjoy the juice you made, it is really good.  Even for those who don't like tobacco flavors to much.
Thank you so much for your help and you are correct, this is a very friendly and knowledgeable board. Thanks to all who have helped me. Shout out to Erch


Offline zeus17

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Re: Tutorial on steeping; for those just starting to mix
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2013, 01:51:23 PM »
hi,may i ask how often do i need to do this and when do i know its steeped enough?

short story there is a juice that i buy,very cheap,due to poverty i stick with that brand :)
$95 for a 10ml and $4 for a 30ml..cheap right? freaked_out:

now,i did this but instead of a micro,i boiled water,then did the same steps(for cofee hehehe)
then i thre it tin the rice cooker when the rice was just about to be finished,there was definitely improvement on the taste..but do not know if i do it like everyday?until my bottle is gone? :)

Offline Erck89

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Re: Tutorial on steeping; for those just starting to mix
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2013, 09:05:55 PM »
hi,may i ask how often do i need to do this and when do i know its steeped enough?

short story there is a juice that i buy,very cheap,due to poverty i stick with that brand :)
$95 for a 10ml and $4 for a 30ml..cheap right? freaked_out:

now,i did this but instead of a micro,i boiled water,then did the same steps(for cofee hehehe)
then i thre it tin the rice cooker when the rice was just about to be finished,there was definitely improvement on the taste..but do not know if i do it like everyday?until my bottle is gone? :)

  Zeus:  Steeping is only necessary when you make your own e juice from concentrate(s) and dilutants.  Ready to use flavors (aka premixed flavors)  DO NOT require any special handling.  Just keep them capped and in a fairly controlled environment.  If you saw improvement in the juice after you steeped it in the hot water and/or rice, it proves it was not properly manufactured.  That would lead me to question the ingredients used in the manufacture.  Please, be very, very careful with that stuff.  Believe it or not, it is cheaper, and safer, to make your own.  It will not be easy, but I would be willing to teach you how to make your own juice.  It is called DIY, Do It Yourself.  I'll have to look at your profile to see where you are located to see just how hard it will be.   If you are outside the USA, I don"t know what's readily available and where to get it quickly.  And I won't be alone.  The people on this forum are absolutely fantastic.  You'll get more help than you will know what to do with.

  Whatever you do, stop using the stuff in question until some can identify it and and any dangers.  We will need to know the brand name and the supplier.  There are Chinese juices out there that are, cheap, and made with oils and other chemicals that are proven to do irreparable damage to your lungs. 

Offline zeus17

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Re: Tutorial on steeping; for those just starting to mix
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2013, 03:51:48 PM »
thanks for taking the time to reply...
currently,i did risk taking a couple of juices into heating method and it did improve taste.
only reason i was intrigued was i saw a couple of people steep

http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/1n2vue/steeped_vs_unsteepted/

well known brands and had improvement too so i just wanted to try it as well.

i have tried diy before but pretty much failed due to the limit of flavors available in our country(ph)
plus not sure of the ingredients as well.there are capellas loranns available on local sites like vapetime,then again cost was too high.well intial cost i guess and to have a recipe ingredient well cost me 4 times as much compared if i bought a premixed one...
lor anns  would be priced about $5 for 18ml,
its not a chinese juice its more of locally made...


yup people here are great,everytime i needed any solid ang thought about information this is the place i go,most places are great but not as this.

Offline Erck89

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Re: Tutorial on steeping; for those just starting to mix
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2013, 09:20:31 PM »
thanks for taking the time to reply...
currently,i did risk taking a couple of juices into heating method and it did improve taste.
only reason i was intrigued was i saw a couple of people steep

http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/1n2vue/steeped_vs_unsteepted/

well known brands and had improvement too so i just wanted to try it as well.

i have tried diy before but pretty much failed due to the limit of flavors available in our country(ph)
plus not sure of the ingredients as well.there are capellas loranns available on local sites like vapetime,then again cost was too high.well intial cost i guess and to have a recipe ingredient well cost me 4 times as much compared if i bought a premixed one...
lor anns  would be priced about $5 for 18ml,
its not a chinese juice its more of locally made...


yup people here are great,everytime i needed any solid ang thought about information this is the place i go,most places are great but not as this.

  Zeus:    :thankyou:    I can not equate to you situation where almost everything, or at least the raw materials, have to come in by ship or air carrier.  But, if it is anything like here, a bottle of premix cost about 3 times what a bottle of concentrate does.  The difference is the premix may last a month while the concentrate will make enough to last 3 months or more.  You supply the LUMPIA and I will help you get through the DYI experience.  I will send you a PM (Private Message) and explain.

Offline zeus17

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Re: Tutorial on steeping; for those just starting to mix
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2013, 10:28:49 AM »
i am grateful for the PM,

here switching to ecigs are more of a choice,because the price of 1 pack of smokes ($1) or 44ph and $2 for something like marlboro )is still less than that of a 10ml ejuice,
unless you're buying the same brand i am using,they are by far the cheapest in the country.

as for the lumpia,that literally i guess i can teach you to do and a couple of dishes,

Offline Boavaper

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Re: Tutorial on steeping; for those just starting to mix
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2014, 11:56:12 AM »
Yep...Speed Learnin' can save your life.

I heard once that breathing cocoa KILLS you. (QUICK...like NOW!! not later..) Why are chocolate flavors OK?? Heard of this dude steeping his hot chocolate supermix...
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 12:00:41 PM by Boavaper »

Offline DiLynn

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Re: Tutorial on steeping; for those just starting to mix
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2015, 02:57:53 PM »
 I appreciate the time taken to instruct on steeping.  I hope that my lack of steeping is the answer as to why all my recipes are tasting like a bad medicine and have a nasty throat hit. I will give it a try. Do you have any advice on what and how long to steep a liquid? I would be interested in knowing, I have wasted so much time and money on ingredients by not steeping. 
 :thankyou:

Offline midnightron

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Re: Tutorial on steeping; for those just starting to mix
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2015, 03:27:19 PM »
 
  Whatever you do, stop using the stuff in question until some can identify it and and any dangers.  We will need to know the brand name and the supplier.  There are Chinese juices out there that are, cheap, and made with oils and other chemicals that are proven to do irreparable damage to your lungs.  [/size]
This kinda scares me. I have been making my own juices for a couple years now and never had a problem however, I use brand name products and stay as far away from CHINA as well or any european country. Stick with the good old USA manufacturers and you should be ok. If you have any questions on any brand just throw it up here and ask if anyone has any doings with the company.

Offline Erck89

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Re: Tutorial on steeping; for those just starting to mix
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2015, 06:12:07 PM »
I appreciate the time taken to instruct on steeping.  I hope that my lack of steeping is the answer as to why all my recipes are tasting like a bad medicine and have a nasty throat hit. I will give it a try. Do you have any advice on what and how long to steep a liquid? I would be interested in knowing, I have wasted so much time and money on ingredients by not steeping. 
 :thankyou:

  Welcome DiLynn:   Bad taste and nasty throat hit, probably has little or nothing to do with your steeping practices or lack there of.  Sounds more like a matter of PG/VG ratio, concentrate(s) selection, and concentrates ratio.  To spot the problem we will need to know the recipe(s) you are referencing.  If the answer is all of them, give us the recipe for one.  The whole recipe.  Not just the concentrates.    Speaking of which, There only two brands out of China that are safe.  Those are DeKange and Hagsen (I think I have spelled them correctly), because they are ISO 9000 and 18000 certified and that means all of their processes, raw materials, and management controls are proven, recorded and followed.  There are manufactures in northern Europe that are trustworthy.  Germany and the UK are among the best outside of the US and many of the molecules used by US and foreign manufactures come from Germany.  Enough background.  Lets take a blind swing at your problem while waiting for your recipes.  Hard Throat hit = Throat hit is a product of the PG in the mix and the concentrates ratios, quantities, and interactions.  Unless you special order your concentrates they are in PG diluent and that is understood by the e Juice Me (Breakthu) calculator and deducted from the amount of PG added during mixing.  As a result, the PG line on the right side of the calculator form is normally smaller that the VG line.  Sometimes if you have elected a target PG/VG ratio of 40% PG and 60% VG tou will get a message tell you you need to add more PG to the recipe to maintain you target.  You can adjust the PG/VG ratio or go with the the numbers and accept what you get.  Most people can't tell the difference between 50/50 and 40/60 anyway.  Taste your VG and Pg by putting a drop on the back of your hand and lick it off.  You are going to notice (and I'm no going to tell you) that one is sweet and the other is bitter sweet.  Changing the PG/VG ratio will make a slight difference in the sweetness on your finished product.   Another thing, and one I failed to mention earlier, is the nicotine.  There was no mention of your use of nicotine, but I am going to ask you to place no more than a value of 18 in the TARGET NICOTINE STRENTH  box on the left side of the calculator form on the second line from the top. 

   The last line on the left side of the calculator form enter 40 in the PG box:

AT the top of the left side of the form you will see a "Amount to Make".  In the box for that line put the number corresponding to the smallest juice bottle you have (3, 5, 6, 10).  Under that line is where the list of concentrates for this recipe is going to be entered.  Enter the following concentrates (one per line):

Lemon 
Orange (sweet)
Spearmint
10% Menthol

And in the box on the far right , last column on the left side of the form, put the following numbers, sans the percent sign:

lemon  10%
orange (sweet)  10%
Spearmint  5%
10% menthol  5%

On the lower right on the right side of the form, click on CALCULATE

The numbers in the first column on the right side, opposite the concentrates name is the amount in ml (Milliliters) to be added to your mix.  Use this recipe and make the juice.  Shake it very well, put it in your clean bottle, tightly cap the bottle, bring a cup of water to a boil in the microwave, remove the water from the microwave, immediately put your bottle of juice in the cup of water, remove the bottle every 5 minutes and shake well before returning it to the water.  When the water has cooled to tepid.  Shake the juice again and set aside for 30 minutes.  When it has cooled, load your favorite, clean atty and vape.  If you have a veritable voltage battery, set it at about 2.7, 3.8 volts and vape.  you should get a good cloud and little or no throat hit.  If you get a mouth or throat burn, add 1 drop/3ml MTS to the bottle and shake well.  With lemon, orange, and spearmint, there is a lot of citric acid in the concentrates and you need to add the MTS to bring the ph closer to neutral.

The juice you just made is called Summer's Breeze and it is one I made up about 3+ years ago.  Enjoy

Offline midnightron

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Re: Tutorial on steeping; for those just starting to mix
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2015, 08:20:12 PM »
Hi Erick, it sure has been a long time since we last spoke. I agree with what you said however, I am a USA type guy and prefer spending my cash here at home. lol  Would you agree with this fact-- a lot of newbies have a problem with how much wicking material in their build. If they put too much and cram it in there then there is an excellent chance they will experience both dry hits and burnt taste. The cotton must be loose and not jammed into the atomizer. Sounds like this might be what  is happening. If so then there is an easy fix. Don't cram wicking material in the atomizer. If you change the amount of wicking material and it works then great, if it doesn't then nothing is lost. Do you agree Erick?

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