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Breaktru Forum  |  eCigarette Forum  |  Modding  |  Topic: Multi User Passthrough
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Offline Xx Smoke xX

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Multi User Passthrough
« on: November 12, 2013, 02:55:30 PM »
I do not know if this has been done before, but I really want to make it myself, and understand how it all works to some extent. Basically I want to plug this into the wall outlet 110v AC and power all the lines and have individual adjustments for each line and fire buttons at the end of the lines.

The idea is while I have people over for movie watching  :popcorn: or other entertainment  :beer-toast: we can all vape off of this instead of other multiple devices, and recharging batteries and then me remembering what batteries are in what device and cleaning it all back up and getting it put away.  Normally almost every PV i have gets out at some point and I am tired of the mess.

This passthrough would be just unplugged placed on the shelf and all the lines coiled up and places in the same spot, and the tanks back on where they normally go.

I may need allot of help or only a little as this is my first build, but I have done other electronic builds before.

Lines:
For each line I want to run either the OKR-T/10-W12 or PTR08100W, to me the only difference seems to be the OKR goes up to 6 volts, while the 8100W goes to 5.5 on the adjustments. I was glancing at the data sheets and did not notice too much else that was different. I was wanting to stick with the 10amp boards so that subohm coils .6 ohms or above could be used.

OKR data sheet: http://www.murata-ps.com/data/power/okr-t10-w12.pdf
PTR data sheet: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ptr08100w.pdf

For the box that the lines plug into I want to have the AC/DC power supply, 4 of the OKr's/PTR's, 4 led voltage displays, the on/off switch for each line, the adjustment knobs for the pots, and then a connector for each line. I have not decided if I will use one box to hold it all or put the ac/dc power supply in one and then jump lines to other little boxes that will have the rest of the parts. All in one may be the best.

For the lines I want to use the MYA Freeze Hookah Hose brand hoses, I want them to have the fire button and a 510 connection. I was thinking I would use Monster cable speaker wire in the hoses to keep them flexible. I may have to run 4 wires in each hose to make the connections works. Which means I still need to find the right connectors perhaps a Mini Din.

I still have allot to figure out and learn, and lot more to decide and finalize.
Is this even possible?

I am not sure how many amps I need the ac/dc power supply to have?
I know if it was one board I would need 10amps but doing 4 boards I am not sure how that changes things.

I figured If I went off of Breaktru's schematic for the PTR I could get close to get it working.
Schematic: https://breaktru.com/ecig/ptr08100w_timesrough2.jpg

I thought I might  make a few changes to the schematic to do the tactical switch change with a mosfet as shown other places in the forum, and add the 1s-6s voltmeters as well.

Any advice? any pointers? tips? tricks?  :thankyou:

Offline zeus17

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2013, 04:39:41 PM »
well its a good idea.

nothing on technical i can contribute but an idea i guess..

just ignore if its been pointed out by your plan already and i failed to understand which is 90% of the time...

why not just put multiple 510 connections with individual switches ,parrallel to the box mod(powersupply)
so that they can,or you have an option have several flavors/carto running at the same time?

that way..i think...all you need to build is one circuit then have multiple outs in parrallel connection?

not sure on how this will affect thou


something like this

Box mod  -------switch-----510--carto

                 ---------------switch------------510--atomizer

               --------------switch--------510--clearo?

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2013, 07:17:31 PM »
It's possible.  To power 4 of the OKR-T/10 regulators, I would suggest a 12V 10A AC power adapter.  That will give you up to 120 Watts allowing each station to use up to 30 Watts concurrently.

I would use the OKR-T/10 over the PTR08100.  The OKR does not need external capacitors and has a higher top end on the voltage range.


 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 07:23:22 PM by CraigHB »

Offline Xx Smoke xX

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2013, 04:48:11 PM »
Thinking of using this as the power supply - APEVIA CORP. ATX-JV650W. It has 4 12 volt rails providing the following - +12V1@15A, +12V2@13A, +12V3@13A, +12V4@13A. Its a computer power supply with 650watts.

Does the OKR have any penalty to using 12 volts?
If this is in the datasheet just say so and I will go and ready more of it.

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2013, 06:58:57 PM »
Craig already mentioned that you can use 12v. When building a mod, get familiar with the regulator that you will use by reviewing the datasheet.

Input voltage: 4.5v to 14v for both the OKR-T10 and the PTR08100w

Offline Xx Smoke xX

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2013, 10:19:38 PM »
Ok I think I am getting further, here is my wiring diagram for one board. I was not sure how to show the lines where not crossing or make it actually a schematic that will be next but I wanted to share where I am at thus far.  ;cheers;

I am not sure how to wire it to only have two wires in the hose with the fire button... I was hoping to use like an old 1980's stero head phone jack (the big one) for the hoses.

I will probably put a fuse inline with the switch also, I am considering it.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 10:23:20 PM by Xx Smoke xX »

Offline DjKiDD

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2013, 10:43:15 PM »
When lines touch on a schematic they are not connected unless there is a dot.

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2013, 03:14:55 AM »
That's the convention (crossed wires are only connected if there's a dot), but I find it easier to read when a "hump" is placed on crossing wires that don't connect.  When looking at schematics in general, you'll find some do that and some don't.  I always use the humps myself.

As far as connecting your regulators, just hook them up in parallel to the power supply.  For the OKR, you can use the enable/disable pin for the atomizer trigger.  For battery powered stuff you want to use a switch on the main supply to absolutely conserve power when idle, but that's not a concern when using wall power.

You'll want a good power supply that has low enough supply impedance to handle maximal loading from all 4 regulators.  One rated for 15 or 20 Amps would be ideal.

The OKR regulator has short circuit and overload protection built in.  Buck converters usually do.   A fuse is recommended for reverse polarity protection.  Since the regulators will be hard wired to the supply, that's not an issue.  Its generally a good idea to fuse any load for general safety.  I would probably just use a 20A automotive blade fuse between the supply and all four regulators.

BTW, there's no penalty in using a 12V supply as opposed to a lower supply for the regulators.  DC-DC converters conserve power so there's no power hit in using a higher voltage over a lower voltage. 

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2013, 08:26:10 AM »
Is there a reason you added a 10k resistor for the Inhibit at Pin 1? I don't see that in the datasheet. See Schematic Also make sure the fire switch is a N/C switch.

Using batteries as an input source, we do not need to add capacitors for input and output. However being you are using a power supply you may have to add them to filter ripple. This is from the datasheet:

Recommended Input Filtering
The user must assure that the input source has low AC impedance to provide
dynamic stability and that the input supply has little or no inductive content,
including long distributed wiring to a remote power supply. The converter will
operate with no additional external capacitance if these conditions are met.
TECHNICAL NOTES For best performance, we recommend installing a low-ESR capacitor
immediately adjacent to the converter’s input terminals. The capacitor should
be a ceramic type such as the Murata GRM32 series or a polymer type. Initial
suggested capacitor values are 10 to 22 ?F, rated at twice the expected maximum
input voltage. Make sure that the input terminals do not go below the
undervoltage shutdown voltage at all times. More input bulk capacitance may
be added in parallel (either electrolytic or tantalum) if needed.

Recommended Output Filtering
The converter will achieve its rated output ripple and noise with no additional
external capacitor. However, the user may install more external output capacitance
to reduce the ripple even further or for improved dynamic response.
Again, use low-ESR ceramic (Murata GRM32 series) or polymer capacitors.
Initial values of 10 to 47 ?F may be tried, either single or multiple capacitors in
parallel. Mount these close to the converter. Measure the output ripple under
your load conditions.
Use only as much capacitance as required to achieve your ripple and noise
objectives. Excessive capacitance can make step load recovery sluggish or
possibly introduce instability. Do not exceed the maximum rated output capacitance
listed in the specifi cations.

Offline Xx Smoke xX

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2013, 09:55:42 AM »
That's the convention (crossed wires are only connected if there's a dot), but I find it easier to read when a "hump" is placed on crossing wires that don't connect.  When looking at schematics in general, you'll find some do that and some don't.  I always use the humps myself.

As far as connecting your regulators, just hook them up in parallel to the power supply.  For the OKR, you can use the enable/disable pin for the atomizer trigger.  For battery powered stuff you want to use a switch on the main supply to absolutely conserve power when idle, but that's not a concern when using wall power.

You'll want a good power supply that has low enough supply impedance to handle maximal loading from all 4 regulators.  One rated for 15 or 20 Amps would be ideal.

The OKR regulator has short circuit and overload protection built in.  Buck converters usually do.   A fuse is recommended for reverse polarity protection.  Since the regulators will be hard wired to the supply, that's not an issue.  Its generally a good idea to fuse any load for general safety.  I would probably just use a 20A automotive blade fuse between the supply and all four regulators.

BTW, there's no penalty in using a 12V supply as opposed to a lower supply for the regulators.  DC-DC converters conserve power so there's no power hit in using a higher voltage over a lower voltage.

I found a power supply that has plenty of amps - APEVIA JAVA ATX-JV650W 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Power Supply  - newegg.com item# N82E16817148041. It has 4 12 volt rails and can supply above 10amps to each rail.

Offline Xx Smoke xX

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2013, 09:58:55 AM »
Is there a reason you added a 10k resistor for the Inhibit at Pin 1? I don't see that in the datasheet. See Schematic Also make sure the fire switch is a N/C switch.

Using batteries as an input source, we do not need to add capacitors for input and output. However being you are using a power supply you may have to add them to filter ripple. This is from the datasheet:

Recommended Input Filtering
The user must assure that the input source has low AC impedance to provide
dynamic stability and that the input supply has little or no inductive content,
including long distributed wiring to a remote power supply. The converter will
operate with no additional external capacitance if these conditions are met.
TECHNICAL NOTES For best performance, we recommend installing a low-ESR capacitor
immediately adjacent to the converter’s input terminals. The capacitor should
be a ceramic type such as the Murata GRM32 series or a polymer type. Initial
suggested capacitor values are 10 to 22 ?F, rated at twice the expected maximum
input voltage. Make sure that the input terminals do not go below the
undervoltage shutdown voltage at all times. More input bulk capacitance may
be added in parallel (either electrolytic or tantalum) if needed.

Recommended Output Filtering
The converter will achieve its rated output ripple and noise with no additional
external capacitor. However, the user may install more external output capacitance
to reduce the ripple even further or for improved dynamic response.
Again, use low-ESR ceramic (Murata GRM32 series) or polymer capacitors.
Initial values of 10 to 47 ?F may be tried, either single or multiple capacitors in
parallel. Mount these close to the converter. Measure the output ripple under
your load conditions.
Use only as much capacitance as required to achieve your ripple and noise
objectives. Excessive capacitance can make step load recovery sluggish or
possibly introduce instability. Do not exceed the maximum rated output capacitance
listed in the specifi cations.

Thank you on the switch, I thought one was needed there I must have mistaken.

I am planning on using two caps 10uf, 16v tants on pin 2 and 3 and pin 4 and 3. Would this cover that? I know the caps are hard to see in the drawing.

Thanks everyone for the drawing tips I will do a bit more research and get it drawn more like a schematic.

Offline CraigHB

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2013, 02:40:46 PM »
No, don't use tantalum caps.  Those have the highest ESR of any capacitor.  Tantalum polymer caps are available with low ESR, but they're pricey and the voltage ratings don't go high enough. 

Unfortunately, your options are limited since input voltage is 12V.  You'll want at least 16V rated capacitors.  High value MLCC caps don't go that high in voltage rating.  In your case I would suggest a 100uF 25V electrolytic cap in parallel with a 16V 1uF MLCC cap on the input terminals of each regulator.  It's okay to go higher than required in voltage rating if that's what's cheaply available.

You don't need output caps.  You're only powering an atomizer so there is no concern over reducing output ripple.

Offline Xx Smoke xX

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2013, 04:13:52 PM »
I found these 16v 10uf MLCC with Dipped Radial Lead @ mouser part# FK26X7R1C106K If these will work let me know.

If I should just listen and find these - 100uF 25V electrolytic cap and 16V 1uF MLCC cap. I can do that too.

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2013, 04:47:33 PM »
Those will do nicely.  MLCC caps are by far the best, it's all I use unless cost is an issue.  Can't believe I haven't seen those before at Mouser, but I don't often look at leaded caps, I usually use the SMD ones.  Those caps in an SMD version are several dollars a piece.  That's an awesome price for those.

Oh, wait, those are 10uF not 100uF.  Thought that was too good to be true.  You could add one of those with a 100uF 25V electrolytic though.


« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 04:55:39 PM by CraigHB »

Offline DjKiDD

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2013, 11:24:03 AM »
Saw this on Reddit...



Kinda cool
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 01:06:55 PM by Breaktru »

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2013, 04:04:38 PM »
Yes, it is.  Can't tell from the photo, is each station variable?

Offline Xx Smoke xX

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2013, 05:16:51 PM »
Sorry for lack of updates been working on my parts list lately and buying it slowly. The only Pot's I found that are linear single turn and 200ohm are $15.55 a piece  freaked_out:

Parts list thus far:
4 x $12.99 - Hookana Premium Black MYA Freeze Hookah Shisha Hose - http://www.amazon.com/Hookana-Premium-Freeze-Hookah-Shisha/dp/B006JI4DBO
5 x $9.92 - OKR-T/10-W12-C - DC/DC Converters 12Vin 0.591-6Vout 10A 50W SIP - http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=b1CvEdhOXIYUFSpcmit5YQ%3D%3D
4 x $0.50 - UKL1C101KPDANA - Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 16 Volt 100uF 8x11.5 10% - http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/UKL1C101KPDANA/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvwFf0viD3Y3UZgFE9mhaVNaAZ6lCcEAaQ%3d
4 x $0.32 - FK28X7R1C105K - Multilayer Ceramic Capacitors MLCC - Leaded 1.0uF 16volts X7R +/-10% - http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TDK/FK28X7R1C105K/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt3KoXD5rJ2N48tYEMqcp4x364FYoQbw%252bo%3d
4 x $2.23 - 12B - Phone Connectors 3 CONDUCTOR 1/4" - http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Switchcraft/12B/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtUpMOmSPzkH50chu3J12j2
4 x $1.69 - NYS202 - Phone Connectors 1/4" STEREO METAL REAN - http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/REAN-Neutrik/NYS202/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv0W4pxf2HiVy2l1tTxTkO1VxLkqElQv5k%3d
4 x $0.53 - RN60C2200BB14 - 220 ohm 1/4 W Resistor - http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Dale/RN60C2200BB14/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtlubZbdhIBIP9jaT%252bV2GnR8JbhoGJ%252b2NA%3d
4 x $0.92 - 82MR200LF - 200 ohm single turn through hole trimmer resistor - http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/BI-Technologies-TT-electronics/82MR200LF/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvygUB3GLcD7lv7xXtevcsqI%252bdk6rVp%252biw%3d
4 x $15.55 - P270-DS22R200 - Potentiometers 27mm Rotary Panel Potentiometer - http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/BI-Technologies-TT-electronics/P270-DS22R200/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtC25l1F4XBUzVC3q8S9Qb8IFuJrzVAOow%3d

Offline DjKiDD

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2013, 12:33:34 PM »
My only concern is that the phone connector jack chosen only has a Contact Rating of 1 A, 25 V DC. 

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2013, 01:12:26 PM »
My only concern is that the phone connector jack chosen only has a Contact Rating of 1 A, 25 V DC. 

Good looking out KiDD. These are 20A and cheaper: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=JfNPhaIww3Js%2f7YKnNAfPg%3d%3d

Offline DjKiDD

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2013, 02:03:31 PM »
There we go I was looking for a suitable replacement for him, these look great!

I am definitely going to be making a similar multi-user hookah type setup myself

Offline Dasen22

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2013, 03:03:04 PM »
looks like your photo link has disappeared DJ

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2013, 03:04:28 PM »
How are you making out with this Xx Smoke xX. Any progress yet?  :popcorn:

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2013, 04:54:37 PM »
looks like your photo link has disappeared DJ

the link is dead. must have been taken down by the owner

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2013, 05:02:18 PM »
Found this on Vapor Joes web site:



I found a good link for the dead photo link:


Offline Xx Smoke xX

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2013, 05:39:41 PM »
Thank you DJ for catching that amp limit on the connector!  ;cheers;

I have the power supply purchased more parts I will order in next week. I need to pick the fire button, and the master switches and sort out what wires define each rail on the psu. I tried asking the manufacture for a pin out, but they were not much help. I was thinking of using banana posts on the power supply as connection points. Still have no idea what to mount it all in.



I got the power supply stripped all connectors off etc, the last picture where all the yellows meet I was trying to figure out how the separate 4 rails are attached there.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 05:51:51 PM by Xx Smoke xX »

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2013, 06:50:57 PM »
Have you seen this yet?
ATX Power Supply

Offline Xx Smoke xX

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2013, 08:02:30 AM »
Thank you Breaktru! I will give that read I seen something simliar. Any advice on figuring out how to separate the 12 volt rails? or should I not worry and just use them all? It shows the pcb in side is a model ATX-66b still researching for a schematic  :)

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2013, 09:16:33 AM »
In the Instructable link previously, he ties all the yellow wires (+12v) together. They come off of the same bus. If you want you can separate them to feed each OKR-T/10-W12 or PTR08100W. Divide the amount of yellow wires evenly. If there are 4 converters use 2 yellow wires for each of them or tap off the point where you tied all the yellow wires together. It's your choice. The number of yellow wires depends on the power supply.

Schematics:
http://www.pavouk.org/hw/en_atxps.html
http://danyk.cz/s_atx_en.html

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2013, 02:39:46 PM »
I found this searching for a method to determine the different rails -

In order to figure out which of a PSU's +12V lines are on different rails, you can (after unplugging it) use a multimeter to check resistance between the +12V pins on the different connectors. Any resistance greater than essentially zero is indicative that the two connectors that you are testing are on different rails.

Should be interesting that is allot of different tests lol it say's it has four rails....

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2013, 04:47:40 AM »
The better ATX power supplies use a single rail for each voltage output so it might save some trouble to dig up one of those.  You sometimes see PC power supplies advertised as "dual rail" as if it's a feature.  It's not.  It's a cost savings measure and a negative for quality.

Offline Madyicstik

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2015, 08:31:17 PM »
I wonder if OP finished this project?

Offline TheModfatherInc

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2015, 03:13:45 AM »
for anyone wondering these PSU work awesome for stuff like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERNIGHT-12V-DC-30A-360W-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-for-LED-Strip-Light-/181249443002 and a a buddy of mine designed some enclosures for them at my request specifically for this purpose. They arent for sale yet but they will replace the metal housing and hold a voltmeter and two xt60 connectors for the outputs. modderbox.us is the guy. shoot him a message if you dont see them for sale and youre interested.

Offline TheModfatherInc

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2015, 03:16:34 AM »
I haven't had a chance to finish assembling mine yet I'll report back this weekend with finished pics

Offline vapetech334

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2015, 02:51:53 PM »
Mod I need to hire you for my custom pc business. You do excellent work. I need to post some pics of a few rigs ice made but I'll haveta call the customers .... I had all the pics I'd ever made and several build videos on my digital camera setup but my wife left the garage open about 4mnths ago and my camera and my video editing rig and almost 21,000$ in inventory was stolen. They also stole my linbox that hosted my webserver and website. My homeowners insurance is still reviewing and figuring how much they are gonna pay me... My estimate to them was 37grand but I'll ' be lucky if I can cover my inventory loss. I've got near bout 100,000$ in inventory alone in my garage workshop and that doesn't include tools and machinery and my little paint booth... Thank God whoever robbed me didn't have more room in the getaway car but what sucks is they stole all video cards ... 4 of them were Titan X's I'd never opened them..
Damn I have the worst off topic rambling condition...all I wanted to say was beautiful work modfather....liol

Online Breaktru

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2015, 03:47:57 PM »
Mod I need to hire you for my custom pc business. You do excellent work. I need to post some pics of a few rigs ice made but I'll haveta call the customers .... I had all the pics I'd ever made and several build videos on my digital camera setup but my wife left the garage open about 4mnths ago and my camera and my video editing rig and almost 21,000$ in inventory was stolen. They also stole my linbox that hosted my webserver and website. My homeowners insurance is still reviewing and figuring how much they are gonna pay me... My estimate to them was 37grand but I'll ' be lucky if I can cover my inventory loss. I've got near bout 100,000$ in inventory alone in my garage workshop and that doesn't include tools and machinery and my little paint booth... Thank God whoever robbed me didn't have more room in the getaway car but what sucks is they stole all video cards ... 4 of them were Titan X's I'd never opened them..
Damn I have the worst off topic rambling condition...all I wanted to say was beautiful work modfather....liol

Wow vapetech, I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

Offline delareysteyn87

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Re: Multi User Passthrough
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2018, 07:28:15 AM »
Hi all, not sure how active all the OG members of this thread is, but i need some help regarding a similar build. I'm from South Africa and we have limited access to electronic parts and chips without having to go the buy online and have it shipped route. anybody active that has built one of these successfully and can guide me in the right direction?

Breaktru Forum  |  eCigarette Forum  |  Modding  |  Topic: Multi User Passthrough
 

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