New Modder - 1st Build

[Boonos]

Hi guys, just wanted to introduce myself as I'm new to the forum.

Been trolling for a couple of days and its obvious u guys know what your doing, so am hoping you will help me out with my first build.

Ive bought a couple of VAMO V5 boards as they were cheap and seem quite simple to set up. I've watched all the 'Tin Your Tip' Vamo PCB builds and i think i can handle it (even though i know virtually nothing about electronics).

Ive bought some pre wired 510 connectors as i haven't soldered since i was in school (nearly 20 years ago) and i heard it can be tricky for a novice.

I'm planning to make a box mod of some kind, probably a tin. i would like to mount the board to the side of the tin somehow and make a cutout for the display rather than opening it up to access the buttons. I've just bought a rotary tool (hope its up to the job) http://www.ozito.com.au/rtr-040 i couldn't bring myself to spend $100 for a dremel as I'm just getting started.

I would love to have a usb charger built in but I think i'll leave this until my 2nd build as its another layer of complexity (for me anyway lol). So will go with either 1 or if space allows 2 removable 18650s. have found these holders on Fastech, will they be ok?
https://www.fasttech.com/products/1289700
https://www.fasttech.com/products/1191500

I've just been down my local electronics store to find some wire and they don't have 20 gauge or 24 gauge (I got theses gauges from http://www.howder.com/milo-dna20d.pdf). I'm assuming they'd be ok for the Vamo board. Am i right in thinking that 20 gauge copper wire is good for connecting to the battery? and the 24 gauge for the up, down and fire controls? They had 16 gauge and 25 gauge in the shop i think?

So i'll be needing to purchase a solder iron, can someone point me to an ok one for about $30 - $40. Also do i use lead-free? so many questions lol 
My local store has these:
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=TS1652
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=TS1651
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=TS1540
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=TS1620 (probably a bit more than i'd like to spend)

Heres all the solder irons they sell if some one can recommend an ok/good one?
http://search.jaycar.com.au/search?p=KK&srid=S10-AUSYDR02&lbc=jaycar&ts=custom&pw=Heat%20Gun&uid=421493849&isort=score&view=list&w=Soldering%20Iron&rk=6


Also i hear you all talking about multi metres, the cheapest i saw was about $10, do i need one of these? if so, what for?

What about adhesives once its all wired up and working, been hearing people talking about epoxy and also glue guns?

Any recommendations, coaching or advice is greatly appreciated. Any good 1 stop shops to buy stuff (I'm in Australia so am trying to keep it local to cut down on shipping costs and waiting time)

Also, am i missing anything in my parts?

Cheers
Andy

[Boonos]

changed my rotary tool to a dremel http://www.bunnings.com.au/dremel-130w-corded-rotary-tool-26pce-acc-kit-f0133000pm_p6280041 as i checked out some reviews of the other one and they weren't good

[DRA]

Welcome new modder Boonos.

I would suggest not using those cheap quality battery holders. Look for Keystone electronics holders.

A name brand soldering station w/ temp control is the way to go. It will last for years.

#1 - Weller WES51
#2 - Hakko 888D
#3 - Aoyue 936

[Boonos]

Thanks for the reply DRA

[Breaktru]

Dremel is a good choice. I have mine for several years and got a lot of use out of it.
I'm happy with my Weller WES51. I agree with DRA on the keystone holders.

My epoxy of choice is Loctite Heavy Duty. Formally known as Professional.

As far as MM, I don't recommend a $10 one if your looking for accuracy.
See THIS

[Boonos]

Thanks for the reply. Do you know where i can get Keystone Holders?

Are any of these correct? I can't tell as there are no pics
http://www.digikey.com.au/product-search/en?vendor=0&keywords=Keystone+electronics+holders+18650

[CraigHB]

As far as MM, I don't recommend a $10 one if your looking for accuracy.

I think you put it lightly there Dave.  Cheap multi-meters can be horribly inaccurate.  I would recommend against using one for any purpose. 

Boonos, your profile says you're in Aus so i don't have any vendors for you, but you want a brand name meter and they are not necessarily expensive.  Any from this supplier would be good;

http://www.tequipment.net/multimeters/handheld-multimeter/

[Boonos]

thanks Craig

[Breaktru]

Thanks for the reply. Do you know where i can get Keystone Holders?

Are any of these correct? I can't tell as there are no pics
http://www.digikey.com.au/product-search/en?vendor=0&keywords=Keystone+electronics+holders+18650

The HOLDER part numbers are 1048 and 1042 which is not in stock at Digikey

See: HERE and HERE

[Boonos]

these ones look similar and are in stock, would they be ok?

http://www.digikey.com.au/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=146354003&uq=635305070111035635
http://www.digikey.com.au/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=146354008&uq=635305070610739093

[cudaman68]

I have tried the fasttech battery holders are not worth buying. The keystone ones are well worth the money be warned they hold on to the batteries tight so don't rip your mod apart trying to swap batteries LOL

[Boonos]

Thanks Breaktru, I've got those battery holders in my cart now

I'm trying to buy switches/buttons from the same site to save on shipping... 5 hours later and i feel i'm going in circles. I'm happy with the tactile buttons http://au.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=KSJ0M43180SHLFTvirtualkey61170000virtualkey611-KSJ0M431LFT  for the up and down on the vamo board as i understand this won't be carrying much power, but am having trouble finding a suitable fire button. In theory can i use one of those tactile buttons to fire it too? I've been reading around the forum and most are recommending at least 3A switch... are these suitable?

If they are not, is this suitable:
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/295/SB4011-28199.pdf

Ideally, id like one of those bigger fire buttons around 12-14mm wide, something like this http://www.stealthvape.co.uk/16mm-vandal-proof-switch-flat or similar to the one Mamu used on the ARLO (http://mamumods.com/tutes/arlo_howto.pdf), but can't find one, can anyone point me in the right direction?

[Breaktru]

If you are using the Vamo board, you can use a low current tactile switch for the fire button.
The stealthvape link to the switch you show is a 16mm mounting hole. Very large. They have a 12mm at: http://www.stealthvape.co.uk/12mm-chromed-anti-vandal-momentary-switch

Mamu's button is at: http://www.mitec.com.hk/test/products/Product.asp?Search=MSW-1202&Submit=Search

[Boonos]

Thanks for having a look for me, its good to know i can use the tactile if need be. Yea i found Mamus button on Mitec, just not sure where i can purchase it. I've just enquired about it to them, so hopefully they will let me know.

I've found a tin which i really like on Etsy https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/83682427/square-tin-with-clear-lid-4-ounces?ref=shop_home_active_20 which will allow me to dremel out the side of the tin so the display can be seen, I'm planning to place the switches on the side too. The tins a little too short to house 18650s so am planning to use 2x 18500s.
Does anyone know where i can find decent 18500 battery holders? or maybe run 2x 18350s?i can't find them on any of the sites I've tried. Failing that, can you point me to a thread detailing how to create and use my own battery contacts.

Sorry for all the questions, but this is all new and quite daunting to me, i know virtually nothing about electronics but i can follow instructions well.

So far i have ordered:
Wire 20AWG and 24AWG
18650 holders (not sure ill need these now)
2x PCB boards as I'm sure i'll bugger one up
5x pre wired 510 connectors
Dremel
Solder Iron, Solder, Paste
MultiMeter
I have 6 tactile switches in my cart

So i still need a Fire Switch and 18500 holders or battery contacts to make my own

I think thats it...

[Boonos]

oooo just found these, any good for 18350s? planning to get 2 and wire them up in parallel if i can learn how

http://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Keystone-Electronics/1050/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMupuRtfu7GC%252bQA3PSdkWAlrJgUOPI%2fmMjw%3d

[mamu]

Welcome to modding, Boonos!

Although I like the MSW-1202 switch better for its raised actuator, you can find the flat actuator MSW-1201 switch here: http://www.rapidonline.com/electronic-components/12mm-vandal-resistant-switch-spst-off-on-50-1057

[Breaktru]

oooo just found these, any good for 18350s? planning to get 2 and wire them up in parallel if i can learn how

http://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Keystone-Electronics/1050/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMupuRtfu7GC%252bQA3PSdkWAlrJgUOPI%2fmMjw%3d

A CR123 is equivalent to a 16340 battery which technically is 16mm in diameter and 34mm long.
An 18350 is technically 18mm in dia and 35mm long.
The diameter should not be a problem in a CR123 holder but the length is.

I have used a CR123 battery in place of an 18350 where I used a battery clip and a battery spring. The spring allows for the size difference.

[Boonos]

Welcome to modding, Boonos!

Although I like the MSW-1202 switch better for its raised actuator, you can find the flat actuator MSW-1201 switch here: http://www.rapidonline.com/electronic-components/12mm-vandal-resistant-switch-spst-off-on-50-1057

thanks Mamu, looks good, although i think i want the raised actuator too

[Boonos]

A CR123 is equivalent to a 16340 battery which technically is 16mm in diameter and 34mm long.
An 18350 is technically 18mm in dia and 35mm long.
The diameter should not be a problem in a CR123 holder but the length is.

I have used a CR123 battery in place of an 18350 where I used a battery clip and a battery spring. The spring allows for the size difference.

I think I'm going to get this 2x 18650 holder http://au.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=1048virtualkey53400000virtualkey534-1048, chop out a bit of the middle to shorten it  and stick it back together so i can run 2x 18500s so i get longer run time. Seems the easiest option and i think i have enough room for 2x18500s.

[Boonos]

i need to adhere  the V5 vamo board to a small piece of timber and then adhere the timber to the side of the case. Im thinking i'll stick the wood to the two black things sticking out of the underside of the board as they stick out the furthest. Just wanted to check first that I'm not interfering with the electronics by gluing it there (see pic)? They say '2R2' on the top of them and they have what looks like copper wire round them (i don't know what they are/do). If its ok, will it be fine to use superglue?

Also, what do you guys use to protect the screen from scratches/damage? was thinking of getting an old piece of plastic from a cd case and using that.

Cheers

[Breaktru]

i need to adhere  the V5 vamo board to a small piece of timber and then adhere the timber to the side of the case. Im thinking i'll stick the wood to the two black things sticking out of the underside of the board as they stick out the furthest. Just wanted to check first that I'm not interfering with the electronics by gluing it there (see pic)? They say '2R2' on the top of them and they have what looks like copper wire round them (i don't know what they are/do). If its ok, will it be fine to use superglue?

Also, what do you guys use to protect the screen from scratches/damage? was thinking of getting an old piece of plastic from a cd case and using that.

Cheers

Those "things" are inductor coils and glueing to it won't effect the electronics.
If you plan on never removing the board then superglue will do it. Otherwise a soft tacky glue will also work and can be easier removed if need be.

So far I never used anything for screen protection but I don't see why any type of plastic even from a cd case or a thin piece of Lexan won't work.

[Boonos]

Those "things" are inductor coils and glueing to it won't effect the electronics.
If you plan on never removing the board then superglue will do it. Otherwise a soft tacky glue will also work and can be easier removed if need be.

So far I never used anything for screen protection but I don't see why any type of plastic even from a cd case or a thin piece of Lexan won't work.

cool, thanks breaktru

[CraigHB]

Hehe, black thingies.  Those inductors are not really very good structurally.  If they had used the quality surface mount type that come in a molded epoxy package, they would have been.  Those cheap ones like that are simply mounted by the wires and the core is a brittle ferrous material.  Really not a structurally sound mounting point.  The core will likely crack or the solder connection will let go upon any impact rendering the board inoperative. 

You should permanently mount the board in a bed of epoxy, hot glue, or other glue suitable for potting electronics.

[Breaktru]

Yes I agree that it wouldn't be structurally sound but for just securing for the sake of it not moving/rattling around it should be okay.

I've ripped off a plastic cap on an inductor trying to remove it from the glue.

[CraigHB]

Well, yeah it should work, but you do have to think in terms of how well something can handle getting knocked around.  I know I beat the crap out of my own mods dropping them and knocking them off the table.  My wife is my best torture tester.  Once she accidentally slammed one one against the wall at high velocity tripping over its charger cable.  The cable got a bit mangled, but the mod held up just fine.

[Breaktru]

Never thought about the dropping thing. Yeah the ind. tops would snap right off.

[Boonos]

Hehe, black thingies.  Those inductors are not really very good structurally.  If they had used the quality surface mount type that come in a molded epoxy package, they would have been.  Those cheap ones like that are simply mounted by the wires and the core is a brittle ferrous material.  Really not a structurally sound mounting point.  The core will likely crack or the solder connection will let go upon any impact rendering the board inoperative. 

You should permanently mount the board in a bed of epoxy, hot glue, or other glue suitable for potting electronics.

Thanks Craig, i'll rethink how i can mount it with some hot glue.

[Visus]

HI Boonos

Woot great site for tins thanks those are purdy nice for mods..

I like the tin mods but assume they will ding up on me flex and rattle with a top heavy atty or a dropping.

Goodluck on your 1st mod it will start the fever and you will end up with more mods than you need.. 

[Boonos]

HI Boonos

Woot great site for tins thanks those are purdy nice for mods..

I like the tin mods but assume they will ding up on me flex and rattle with a top heavy atty or a dropping.

Goodluck on your 1st mod it will start the fever and you will end up with more mods than you need.. 

no prob, i ended up going with a different tin in the end as couldn't find the one i wanted in AUS. I started on tin as i thought it would be easier, not sure why

[Boonos]

I wired up all my parts outside the tin as i wanted to make sure it all works, before reassembling inside the tin.

Can i remove the negative out from the board to the atty since the arty will be epoxied in tin? I'm an electronics nooby

[CraigHB]

Keep your hard lines.  You can use the tin as a common ground and it's a decent conductor, but you would have to either solder the negative battery wire to the tin or mount it with a nut and bolt.  Might as well just run wires, probably easier.

[Boonos]

thanks Craig

[Boonos]

edit, fixed

[Boonos]

Have just finished my Vamo V5 mod. i can't say I'm happy with the finish, but the whole thing has been a good learning experience. Takes up to 2 18650 batteries and runs just like my original Vamo  I thought having removable batteries and not having a USB charger would make things simpler, but it was very finicky positioning everything in place when the only opening is a small flip top lid.

I've just ordered a DNA 30 board so am looking forward to getting stuck into that.

I just wanted to thank everyone that helped me out, I'm an electronics noob (still am) and its been a great help.

[Jasen]

I like it, the colors not bad, it works with the industrial look, the bolt button's are very cool Is it an old  band-aid box?

Just a thought/idea on the paint if your thinking youd like more flare/texture/eye catching/uniqueness, an old car painting  trick.  Apply dark paint, say gun metal gray, let dry. Crinkle up some cling wrap then unwad it, apply lighter color like the gray you have. While still wet gently lay the cling-wrap over it and remove, it gives you kind of a marbling effect. I've done it in 3 tone w/ the middle color (in this case copper or maroon) only being in a few places. It's cool and you pretty much can't screw up

I think it came out well for your 1st. and as you said, you learned a lot which will go into your next build 

I'm still waiting on part's for my 1st. build

[Boonos]

Thanks Jasen. Its a cigarette tin, i removed the paint with acetone. I think my problem was i didn't let it dry long enough after spraying. It was touch dry after 16 hours, but soon became scuffed when i was handling/working with it...  so i sprayed another coat and let it dry, but it blew over in the wind  , so i sprayed another coat and I'm scared to touch it lol. i didn't give it a base coat either. if i used metal again, i'll either buy it in a colour i like of get it done by an expert. I think i will make a wooden box for my next one.

[Jasen]

Didn't notice where you were, that explains why I thought it was a band-aid box. Nice re-purposing of the cig box.

So it sounds like your paint job "wanted" some character can't say anything like that has ever happened to any of my project's, ever  Let it cure for 72 hrs. wet sand w/ 1000-1500gt. re-spray.

[Jasen]

3 key point's to painting for project's like this.

1. prep/clean,clean,clean

2. light coat's, fog it on and apply 4,5,6,7,8 coat's

3. prep/clean,clean,clean

[Boonos]

could you go into more detail about the prepping and cleaning before and after paint?

[Visus]

that board is sweet and with  your setup you can buck or boost,  parallel or series config. 


mucho niiice

[mamu]

Congratz and well done, Boonos!!

For a tin like that - just torch the paint off  - you get cool swirly colors and it's easy peasy.

I did that last year with an Eclipse tin and put a DNA in it.

[Boonos]

thanks visus and mamu, yea i love the look of your eclipse tin

[Visus]

Heres breaks switch design post  for series or parallel  looks  like it would fit  right there next to the sled.
Cant argue with that being awesome..

http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,543.0.html

[Boonos]

Heres breaks switch design post  for series or parallel  looks  like it would fit  right there next to the sled.
Cant argue with that being awesome..

http://breaktru.com/smf/index.php/topic,543.0.html

ooof, that looks complicated 

is the idea of it to add a usb charger into the mod?

[Visus]

yes
 it would work for your mod as both Vin and a charge circuit if you wanted that.

It's really easy just follow the wires/lines check out post #19

[Boonos]

ah cool, think i'll leave this one as it is. have already started plans for another one 

[Visus]

I was thinking about it for future if I was to build build a vamo---  wire it in series then use a batt slug when want parallel.  easiest lol..

 

[Jasen]

Painting.

Rattle can primer comes in 4 colors, light gray, dark gray, red (rust) and black. Pick the closets to to your paint color. Sand w/ 1000gt. wet/dry sand paper (dry), this is to give the surface some tooth, something better for the paint to bond to. Set up something to hold your piece so you don't have to touch it. Dust off the piece then wipe it down really well with rubbing alcohol and a lint free cloth. Put it on you paint stand, hang from wire whatever you do and clean with the alcohol where you touched it. The oil from your hands is enough to cause problems w/ the paint.
Hold the primer 8-10" (20-25 cm) from your piece. In sweeping motions start spraying be for you sweep across and after you pass the piece. Just fog on a light coat on all sides, don't worry about getting it fully covered. In 3-4 fog coat's you should have it fully covered. Let primer dry between coat's as per the instructions. Fog on your finish color in the same manor following the instructed dry time between coat's. With the final coat apply it a little bitter heavier, "just enough" so it looks wet as your applying it, let it fully cure, usually 24 hrs. before you start really handling it.

[Boonos]

Thanks Jasen, thats a great help