Tinkering with the Naos Raptor - 20A, 120W dc/dc converter...

[karadorde]

Someone mind checking over this parts list?
Want to make sure I got all this right the first time. 


P.S.  I left out the 1s-6s display since ill be getting that elsewhere.  Also, the PFET recommended is OOS, any replacements?  I may not even use one.  And 2 different pots to play with.

Thanks

The lack of an NFET in your parts list leads me to believe you are using the original wiring diagram provided by mamu and not the one she posted earlier up on this page. If you are using that diagram, the fire switch you chose won't work. It is only rated at two amps instead of the required 20. Throw an NFET and a couple of other parts into the mix and you can use that switch since in the other scheme it doesn't have to be rated.

EDIT: Never mind. I was confusing fire switch and master switch. Carry on!!

[onefstsnake]

I think Mouser has the PFET and NFET in stock. 
Think the only thing left to find is a 200ohm pot and a nice knob for it. 

[karadorde]

So, I hope this is ok with Mamu and the crew, but I redrew the circuit for the Raptor. I had some free time and am trying to figure out Eagle Cad so I figured this was a pretty good little project to work on. Hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes. Just trying to help clear some stuff up for any new comers and myself.

[mamu]

lol no you're not stepping on toes to draw a schematic for the Raptor.  No one has a claim on that sort of thing.

Two concerns -
I understand your intent to give me credit for the original diagram and thank you for that, but this is your schematic, your work, not mine.  Please remove asap "Raptor Circuit Design by Mamu" and the text box copied from my diagram.  Replace with your name and your words.

I haven't checked over everything in your schematic, but the fire switch, zener diode, and on/off control are not wired correctly.

[karadorde]

Thanks, mamu! I pulled the image down for the time being while I fix my mistakes.

I'll admit that I got a bit lazy and copied your paragraph about the Sense pins without rewriting, apologies for that. And I will look over those parts in the schematic again and rewire them. Even after double and triple checking I knew I would muck something up, lol.


Edit: Diagram was changed and added back to the post. Can't believe I botched the zener/fire switch setup. I think it is correct now. I appreciate your help and understanding. Many thanks, mamu!

[cliff p]

For anyone looking, digikey just received more stock of the Raptor chip.  I just ordered two more.

[_tek_]

For anyone looking, digikey just received more stock of the Raptor chip.  I just ordered two more.

Good lookin Cliff!!!!! Just ordered two more, I needed one of them for a friend, the other is "just in case".

 

[cliff p]

No worries!  I know they're hard to come by, and even more so when eBay vendors are snatching them up for resale.

[onefstsnake]

Where is everyone connecting their ground connections? 
Negative on battery holder?  As grounding to chassis wouldn't be very easy. 

[cliff p]

Yes.  Negative terminal on the battery block.

[_tek_]

I've been using this P-FET for reverse polarity with my builds - D-PAK size: IPD042P03L3 G

And these strap fuses (2x in parallel): MF-LR900/20-0

How are you soldering these PFETS and fuses? Thanks in advance.

[mamu]

How are you soldering these PFETS and fuses? Thanks in advance.

There's nothing different or special with soldering these parts.  I do scruff up the ends of the fuses before applying flux and solder though and use 18ga stranded wires for connections.

[cghildreth]

Wow.  Mamu, Breaktru, Craig, and others - thank you for all the time you're spending sharing ideas and knowledge!  I've built a few DNA and SX350 mods, but this Raptor build is a whole other world - one that I don't understand very well.  I've ordered a few raptor chips while they're available, but am not going to build them until I understand a few more things. While I could blindly follow your tutorials, I don't like to do things that could result in a blown battery next to my face without understanding exactly what each component does, how it works, and what the safety concerns are with combining it all together.  Doing so seems a bit foolish to me, so my task is to learn!  I've taken a basic DC class in college several years back, so I have a very solid handle on ohm's law, how voltage, resistance, capacitance works in theory, etc., but don't have any real handle on how to design/troubleshoot anything more than the most basic of circuits. 

 I've gotten a book to help me learn (Practical Electronics for Inventors), but wonder if you have any suggestions for texts to read that can help a noob understand some of the basics. 

[CraigHB]

That's good you are looking to understand how these things work.  Until a safe battery comes along that can perform as well as a Li-Ion, you really need to know what you're doing.  There is one promising technology on the horizon that may resolve the safety issue, but until then, a person has to be careful with this stuff.  I have an online buddy that runs a vape shop, I've heard some crazy stories from him about things people have attempted.

I always recommend the tutorials here; http://www.allaboutcircuits.com   The texts are really well written and there's plenty of depth for anything you would want to do with mod building.

Welcome to the forum BTW

[LeeM]

can anyone help me out a little here please? are we still using the diagram here? http://www.mamumods.com/pics/raptor7.png

now I've got the following parts in my basket;
some of these fuses http://www.digikey.co.uk/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=155353817&uq=635434691059434000
some of these capacitors http://www.digikey.co.uk/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=155317805&uq=635434673485121858
these 220 resistors http://www.digikey.co.uk/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=155319591&uq=635434673677021801
and these 4.7k http://www.digikey.co.uk/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=155319633&uq=635434673912408597
this zener http://www.digikey.co.uk/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=155319897&uq=635434674038627483
this mosfet http://www.digikey.co.uk/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=155353468&uq=635434689225505673
and this pot http://www.digikey.co.uk/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=155324624&uq=635434674197434465

could anyone let me know if they're all correct?

also does that allow me to use a non rated fire button, but still need to use a 20amp main switch?

thanks in advance

[karadorde]

can anyone help me out a little here please? are we still using the diagram here? http://www.mamumods.com/pics/raptor7.png

now I've got the following parts in my basket;
some of these fuses http://www.digikey.co.uk/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=155353817&uq=635434691059434000
some of these capacitors http://www.digikey.co.uk/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=155317805&uq=635434673485121858
these 220 resistors http://www.digikey.co.uk/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=155319591&uq=635434673677021801
and these 4.7k http://www.digikey.co.uk/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=155319633&uq=635434673912408597
this zener http://www.digikey.co.uk/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=155319897&uq=635434674038627483
this mosfet http://www.digikey.co.uk/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=155353468&uq=635434689225505673
and this pot http://www.digikey.co.uk/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=155324624&uq=635434674197434465

could anyone let me know if they're all correct?

also does that allow me to use a non rated fire button, but still need to use a 20amp main switch?

thanks in advance

You might check your post. All of those links were broken for me.

[LeeM]

thats odd, they all work when i click

[karadorde]

thats odd, they all work when i click

Not sure what the issue is. I get a 404 error on every page in chrome/safari/firefox.

Using that diagram means yes you need the rated master switch. This is because all of the voltage/amperage passed to the atomizer goes through that switch. That means if you turn the module all the way up to 6v and fire a .30 ohm coil on your atty, you will be pulling 20 amps out of your batteries. The switch must be able to handle that amount of current.

The fire switch does not need to be rated. All it does is pass a signal to the on off pin. The maximum amount of current that pin will pull through the fire switch is .5 mA. Just about any switch should be able to handle that.

[LeeM]

thanks yeah I've been looking at various diagrams for hours and can see how the firing switch works there now. took a good few hours but i think I've worked out how it all works now, thanks in a large part to this thread.

think I've learnt more about mosfets and zener diodes in the last 24 hours than i remember from a foundation degree in engineering haha

[cghildreth]

I always recommend the tutorials here; http://www.allaboutcircuits.com   The texts are really well written and there's plenty of depth for anything you would want to do with mod building.

Welcome to the forum BTW

Thanks Craig!  I started looking and there is an amazing amount of material there. 

[onefstsnake]

Hmm whats everyone using for a 20a rated master switch?
Cant seem to find one that isn't huge.

Got my raptor, fire switch, enclosure and battery sled in on Wednesday.   

[werkkrew]

I had a question about this build, and for that matter, any of the Naos Raptor / OKR / OKL builds -

Does the DC/DC converter limit itself to the max output voltage in the spec sheet, regardless of the resistors used on the trim pins?  For example, according to the spec sheet of the 20A Naos Raptor, 220ohm trim = 6V output, in my build I used a 180ohm in front of the pot which according to the formula on the spec sheet would produce output of 7.0v.  Completely ignoring the potential to fry the chip or any safety concerns, is it possible to run these out of spec?  When I put a load on mine I notice the output limits itself to 6.0v automatically and I am not sure if its a "feature" of the converter or just a coincidental voltage drop on the output.

For this converter in particular, 0.3ohm @ 6v = 20A / 120w, but what if I wanted to run a 1.5 ohm coil @ 7.5v (5A ~38w) is that possible? 

Or, if the output is limited to 6V does it also limit the current to 20A?  So if I put a 0.2 ohm coil on it and set the output to max, will it automatically drop the output to 4 volts?

[CraigHB]

Converters typically limit output only by switching current which is dependent on power output and also to an extent on input voltage.  The converter will not limit voltage until power output is exceeded.  In that case you could damage the part by over-driving voltage or current.  If the data sheet indicates 6V and 20A is the maximum, then you risk damaging the part if you try to run either harder than that.

[werkkrew]

I understand the whole "risk damage" part, but it seems that in my experience the raptor wont even allow itself to exceed 6v / 20A.

[_tek_]

I understand the whole "risk damage" part, but it seems that in my experience the raptor wont even allow itself to exceed 6v / 20A.

I've pushed Raptors upwards of 140 watts, 25 amps without damage. But not for extended periods of use. That was under 6v though.

[werkkrew]

Okay, so you can run it out of spec on the amperage/wattage side by using <6v and lower resistance, but can you make it go above 6V on higher resistance coils?

[CraigHB]

I understand the whole "risk damage" part, but it seems that in my experience the raptor wont even allow itself to exceed 6v / 20A.

That may be the case, but then it makes the question moot since the converter won't allow it anyway. 

With any part there's a rating which always applies to a continuous load.  There's also an absolute maximum that is drop dead limit.  There's a gray area in between you can take advantage of since an e-cig is not powered continuously and ratings are stated with respect to continuous loads. 

Current limits are based on heat dissipation so if you exceed them, damage does not occur until the part overheats.  This is not the case with voltage.  When voltage limits are exceed, chips fry pretty much instantaneously at some point above what they can tolerate.

[Thearlaich1965]

I think I'm going to give the Raptor a try. I previously built an OKR-T6 and really enjoyed it until I fried it out. I found out why too. When I build a my atties for a mech setup I tend to shoot for about 40 watts. I like the flavor I get at that rating.

I am also struggling through some of this and will also be reading up on circuits since I only studied what the Navy thought I needed to know for working on computer mainframes many years ago. I think it covered much of this but it was for memorization purposes and didn't get much into theory. Also, it was almost 30 years ago and I can forget my own name if I go more than a week without using it.

I recently got a (hopefully) decent soldering station and a good Dremel. A lot has happened since I built the OKR and I have to practically start from scratch.

I'm still not sure if I want to try this circuit out or go with another chip like the OKR for now. I have another thread I need to read through before I decide.

[onefstsnake]

20A Master switch?  That's only 20A @ 6v correct?
So a 5A @ 125v switch should be fine since we are running much lower voltage. 

[Visus]

I think I'm going to give the Raptor a try. I previously built an OKR-T6 and really enjoyed it until I fried it out. I found out why too. When I build a my atties for a mech setup I tend to shoot for about 40 watts. I like the flavor I get at that rating.

I am also struggling through some of this and will also be reading up on circuits since I only studied what the Navy thought I needed to know for working on computer mainframes many years ago. I think it covered much of this but it was for memorization purposes and didn't get much into theory. Also, it was almost 30 years ago and I can forget my own name if I go more than a week without using it.

I recently got a (hopefully) decent soldering station and a good Dremel. A lot has happened since I built the OKR and I have to practically start from scratch.

I'm still not sure if I want to try this circuit out or go with another chip like the OKR for now. I have another thread I need to read through before I decide.

Thats strange the OKRT6 will go into shutdown if it cannot acheive the wattage because of load  it just pulses a bit then shuts down, take off the shorted load and it should react normally.  There was something else amiss or a bad regulator

I do it frequently with a 6amp 8060 mix up atomizers and use that unit and it does not fry just pulses then shuts down.   Something else is wrongs there..  Its an awesome over-current "switched" unit it in an overcurrent situation wont fire cause it will hurt itself.  Yep yep..  Now Craig says you over volt that mofo even a little and it will go up in a poof but with 8.4v coming at it thats not an issue..  Check your wiring etc the OKR should be fine..

[Thearlaich1965]

Unfortunately it got lost in a recent move. That's cool, I wanted to build a T/10 anyway with 18650s or 26650s instead of 14500s.

I messed up the trimmer and the switch. When I bought the parts for it I got the parts numbers from a thread on ECF. The thread was pretty old and some of the parts were out of stock so I had to improvise.

[_tek_]

Thank you all for your comments on this post and help finding parts! Here's my box! 

P.S. I actually like that it looks a little "messy", rockin the DIY look ;-)

[Thearlaich1965]

Looks great. If I build one it would be a bit messier than yours.


BTW- I think yours looks cook. I don't think it looks like a mess.

[dennis15]

congrats tek on your mod build

[mamu]

Well done, tek.  I don't think it looks messy - it vapes and that is success!

[mamu]

I've heard of a few modders who are connecting the pot ground to either pin 3 or pin 10 ground pins instead of the -Trim pin 9.

Was curious about this, as well as why 3 ground pins, so emailed the GE rep.  This is the email...

Hi Cynthia
I received your Inquiry:

Comments: I'm working with Naos Raptor 20A - NSR020A0X43Z - and have a question regarding the 3 ground pins 3, 10, and 9. A continuity check shows that they are all 3 connected, but an ohms check shows that pin 9 (-Trim) has a 1.2 ohm difference between either pin 3 or pin 10, and pin 3 and pin 10 have 0.2 ohm between them. Question is why is this and why 3 ground pins and must Rtrim be connected across -Trim pin and +Trim pin, or can Rtrim be connected across pin 10 or pin 3 and +Trim. I'm wiring according to the datasheet and connecting Rtrim across -Trim and +Trim, but am curious as to the need for 3 ground pins. Thanks, Cynthia

Pin 3 and Pin 10 are true ground pins. Pin 9 Trim – does tie to Grd but thru another component. Tying Rtrim resistor between Rtrim + and Rtrim – is the best way to eliminate any noise issue that maybe picked up in the application from interfering with this reference point.  Also there is always a need for Rtrim to be connected internally in case the external connections are broken they module would not go unstable.

I hope this answers your question
Regard’s
Michael Naglich

What I think the rep means from his last sentence is that if pot ground (or Rtrim if not using a pot) is not connected to -Trim pin 9 and is instead connected to either pin 3 or pin 10 and the pot fails (or the resistor fails if not using a pot), the converter will become unstable.  The converter should default to its low output voltage (0.6v) if the pot fails (as long as the unused outer leg of the pot is tied to ground along with the wiper), so not sure if this is what the rep means by unstable that it won't default to low output voltage, or if it is something else that would make the converter unstable.

[cghildreth]

What are people using for the non-rated master switch?

[joshleeman]

Thank you all for your comments on this post and help finding parts! Here's my box! 

P.S. I actually like that it looks a little "messy", rockin the DIY look ;-)

Brother that looks fine, I hope my first one looks that good.  Can you share the info on the clear box and firing button you used?

[_tek_]

Brother that looks fine, I hope my first one looks that good.  Can you share the info on the clear box and firing button you used?

Sure thing. I got he wrong button though, should have gotten a 16mm but got 19mm instead. I actually love the throw, though its not clicky I enjoy it.

Button: http://ebay.us/ud8h27

Box: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=1591BTCLvirtualkey54600000virtualkey546-1591BTCL

[_tek_]

Update to everyone. Been vaping my mod since Sunday, no issues yet. I've tried to fire too high, by accident. Sometimes it throttles me, sometimes it won't even fire. Good to me, don't want any damage done. Right now my batteries just hit 6.8 volts and stopped firing 4.5 on a 0.3 ohm coil (67 watts) but will fire at 3.5 (40 watts). So when the chip senses it can't push it, it won't fire. I've been pushing it anywhere from 70 to 120 watts with no problems, no heating up, no acting funny. Just straight power. Lovin' it!!!



http://instagram.com/p/r7t57WFz3e/

[joshleeman]

great to hear man, hope it continues to produce for you and I am getting more pumped up by the minute to get one of these.  Thanks for the info!!

[joshleeman]

Can anyone recommend a volt meter for my raptor, preferably one thats in stock and not in china:-).  Doesnt have to be the cheapest one or anything special for that matter, just one that works and has the wires attached already?

[_tek_]

Can anyone recommend a volt meter for my raptor, preferably one thats in stock and not in china:-).  Doesnt have to be the cheapest one or anything special for that matter, just one that works and has the wires attached already?

I used these :http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=231218591497&alt=web

Disclaimer, this is not the same seller(or it could be) that I used. My purchase history from that time is gone, though these look identical down to the board layout and wiring.

P.S. careful with the leads, they break free easily. I had to swap one after building my box. I protected the leads with a bit of hot glue during the surgery :-)

[karadorde]

Can anyone recommend a volt meter for my raptor, preferably one thats in stock and not in china:-).  Doesnt have to be the cheapest one or anything special for that matter, just one that works and has the wires attached already?

I bought the 3-wire volt meter from Adafruit. I am using a higher resistance pot so I can hit some lower voltages and therefore wanted the greater range offered by their 3-wire volt meter.

EDIT: What are you guys using for fuses? I have seen some posts in here but I haven't settled on one. I'd like to run two parallel 10 amps, the one I have right now is a single 18 amp with a 20s trip time. Not the most ideal for protection :/

[joshleeman]

Hey everyone I have a quick question about the 2 ground pins.  I plan on using the (hopefully) attached picture of mamu's no idle drain build from the previous page of this thread in reply to someone asking for the nfet wiring diagram.  It's the most newbie friendly diagram Ive seen but  my question or point of confusion is about pins 3 and 10, whats the difference between them, they both say ground?  Is there nothing coming off of pin 3 going to any kind of ground?  I thought the previous diagrams all say to have pin 3 connected to a ground.  For this build the only thing connected to pin 3 is the 4.7k and the caps correct?  Thanks so much for any explanation, every time I feel like I totally understand this I get hung up on something.

[mamu]

According to the GE rep there is no difference between pins 3 and 10 - both are true ground pins and internally connected with each other.  You can use one or the other or you can mix ground connections between the two.  The only thing I wire to pin 3 is one leg of the caps and one leg of the resistor and all other ground connections to pin 10 because it's easy for me to wire that way.  It's your option.

In my original diagram I show pin 3 and pin 10 externally connected with all the other ground wires at a central location.  Since pins 3 and 10 are both true ground pins according to the GE rep and internally connected there's really no reason to externally connect them.  It won't make any difference if you do or you don't, but if you don't externally connect them you have to connect one or the other to the batt - contact.

[onefstsnake]

The diagram for the nfet shows the zener connecting to both the Vin and On/Off pins. Is this correct?    And a 47k resistor between S and G pins on nfet as well?
Just got all my parts in and will be wiring it up this weekend.

[jrweber02]

The diagram for the nfet shows the zener connecting to both the Vin and On/Off pins. Is this correct?    And a 47k resistor between S and G pins on nfet as well?
Just got all my parts in and will be wiring it up this weekend.

I think mamu goofed on that one or at least when I tryed to use the zener connected in that manner it would cut  not allow any out put butbi switch it to one leg on the on off to the other leg to the  vin  hope that helps its early lmao

[mamu]

yup - I did an oops with placing the legs of the zener. 

Corrected...

[bob salter]

Would this lipo be good for this build? http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__20390__Turnigy_nano_tech_2200mah_2S_40_80C_Lipo_Pack_TRA2820_Traxxas_1_16_models_.html

Bob