The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making

[waverunr2001]

Hi everyone!
          Been reading and watching all this info about these welders.  Sounds like exactly what I need. 
Could someone please put up a shopping list of everything needed to put one of these welders together.
The one with the LED display w/bleed down PB looks the best fit for me. I'm far from a electronic's wiz.
Shopping list, and schematic diagram would be awesome. Then we'll see if I have what it takes to actually
put it together and have it work right.?. I'll post pictures of progress on each step. And give you'al  the credit.
Thanks ahead of time for all the help!!!! I'm going to need it. Lol

[jeandbean]

Hi everyone!
          Been reading and watching all this info about these welders.  Sounds like exactly what I need. 
Could someone please put up a shopping list of everything needed to put one of these welders together.
The one with the LED display w/bleed down PB looks the best fit for me. I'm far from a electronic's wiz.
Shopping list, and schematic diagram would be awesome. Then we'll see if I have what it takes to actually
put it together and have it work right.?. I'll post pictures of progress on each step. And give you'al  the credit.
Thanks ahead of time for all the help!!!! I'm going to need it. Lol

Hey there wave. Welcome to the forum.
If you look at the OP you can find what you are looking for

[wa9w00d]

Well, like JC said, it is done.  Life keeps interrupting my projects, but I digress.  Even made a weld with it. Not too bad, but I think I'll wear U.V. blocking sunglasses from now on. I can tell there was some burn there  . Anyway, here's some pics.
Wayne

 

[Breaktru]

Congrats wa9w00d. Good job.

[wa9w00d]

Thanks, Breaktru.  Now on to bigger projects.  Finally got most of the parts for assembling a Hana style DNA 30. I won't call it a build, 'cause the only big challenge is going to be threading the case for a Varitube 510.  Hope I get it level 

[magnaproxy]

Hello Breaktru, I'm simply amazed how you turned a simple idea into a great project/product.
I thank you in advance 

I read through all of the pages in this thread, and I was gathering parts on the Internet when I remembered I had a small Nikon mount-flash.



I've tried it out and it is more than a decent flash, considering it was purchased more than twenty years ago.
The capacitor in this thing is monstrous, and it's bigger than an AA battery.


I have a very elementary knowledge of electronics (enough to know that I can get shocked) so I didn't bother to touch any other parts of the module/board.
This is what it looks like inside.





I un-soldered the wires that were connected to the flash re-connected some 20 gauge copper wires to it.
It was originally connected here:


When I slide the switch to M, which is Manual flash, I can hear the flash charge.
And surprisingly, there was a spark when I touched the copper wires together. But it was almost blindingly bright and loud.
I was quite certain it would melt the kanthal and no resistant wires, but I gave it a try anyway.
When I overlapped the wires to "weld" them, it instantly evaporated with a flash...

I am assuming the capacitor is much too big to weld thin kanthal wires, and I'm again assuming that I could somehow replace the capacitors with a smaller volume.

Breaktru, could you possibly help me out with this? Or is it a better idea to leave thing thing alone?

[wa9w00d]

I would say that you need a way to limit the charge.  That is a very "healthy" flash unit, prolly hitting 300 volts or more fast.  You need a meter to see the charge, and a momentary switch so that you can stop charging once it's at about 75 volts or so.
Wayne

[magnaproxy]

Thanks for your suggestion! I love that idea... in theory.

No offense though. I'm just not smart enough to place it in that board. 

But yes, you're right. I think I'll have to find a way to bring down the power with a resistor... which means I'd have to find a way to measure the voltage when it's fully charged.
Acquiring a volt/ohm meter isn't difficult, but adding a resistor or resistors would take some trial and error I suppose.

But where would I add it to, is the million dollar question here. 

[waverunr2001]

Hay mag,
      Breaktru has been helping me quit a bit. I know enough about this just to make me dangerous.  But I think everyone would agree that if you could get to that switch you said you turned on and heard it charging. Take one of those wires and put it to momentary push button. And the other side of the switch put back to where you took it off and you're in business. The push button will allow you to stop charge where you want it.  But you're still going to want the DM to see what the charge is.
       Take that advise at your own risk though.  You could get a nasty shock!

[magnaproxy]

Oh wow waver, your explanation made it so much easier to understand!

So, I add a momentary switch to one of the leads, plain and simple

But I'd love to add a voltage reader (panel meter), and I was wondering if it would work by following this schematic.


Would the panel meter work if I wired it just the way it's wired above?
According to the schematic, all I need to do is wire the positive (from the panel) to the positive of the battery, and connect the panel-negative to the switch-negative, and finally wire the white/yellow wire to the positive capacitor. But I think I'd have to add an additional 9V for the panel to light up and work properly.

Thank you so much for helping me out, by the way. 

[waverunr2001]

If you already have 9v power supply in the module your using, I think you've right. Sounds good to me. 

[waverunr2001]

What is your power supply that it is running on now?

[magnaproxy]

This thing eats four AA batteries.
It becomes quite hefty after I feed all four of them.

[wa9w00d]

waverunr2001 is correct I believe.  You want to be able to apply and remove input power in a controlled fashion.  If its difficult to get to that switch, you could back up to the battery feed itself.  An easy way to test this theory would be to remove one (maybe two) of the batteries, set the switch to manual (at this point it shouldn't charge, unless the batteries are parallel instead of series), then momentarily install and remove that last battery. Charging should start and stop.

As to the panel meter, most of them require 3 or more volts to operate.  With 4 batteries, you could be configured for 1.5 (not so likely), 3, or 6 volts.  Three or six would be fine for the red and black (power) leads, then just connect the white (or yellow) lead to the positive of the charge cap.

Wayne

[magnaproxy]

You wonderful, wonderful people!!!

Thank you so much Wayne, and waver for helping me out.

It's quite a daunting task, especially for a newbie (to this forum and electronics), but you guys made it such a wonderful experience here, and I truly appreciate your time to answer my questions and inquiry.

I will most definitely post a follow-up once I order my parts 

[waverunr2001]

Hello World!
      I've read most of this thread more than once,  and I'm not only impressed,  but also thankful for everyone's trial, error,  and contribution to this build. I wish I could have been here when it was actually happening. Souds like you all had a good time. So even though I'm literally years late to the party, here is my build. Now I have say without Breaktru's help and ideas for this project none of us would be welding today.
      This was not a easy build. Especially in such a small enclosure. With a lot of help and a ton of time and effort,  here it is!!!

The 2.9 on the panel meter is  .925 silver and 32 ga kanthal. My first pre-welded wire. You can see the silica wick in the bottom picture by the alligator clips.

[waverunr2001]

You can't see the welds in the picture above because they are so close to the silica, but trust me they're there. Thanks again

[wa9w00d]

Congratulations, waverunr2001 

Sweet looking build.  Really like the carbon fiber look!

Have you done much welding with it yet?

And an FYI for all using one of these - all electric arcs generate UV, try to use UV blocking sunglasses.  There are some that aren't that dark. 

Wayne

[waverunr2001]

Wow,  didn't know that! Thanks for the tip. The cabon fibor was a perc from a freebie sample request. I like it.

[wa9w00d]

Yup. Actually, an electric arc generates a pulse across the electromagnetic spectrum.  The early wireless telegraphs used an arc to transmit the dots and dashes.  So also keep any ESD sensitive devices away from your welding area. 

Wayne

[Breaktru]

Hello World!
      I've read most of this thread more than once,  and I'm not only impressed,  but also thankful for everyone's trial, error,  and contribution to this build. I wish I could have been here when it was actually happening. Souds like you all had a good time. So even though I'm literally years late to the party, here is my build. Now I have say without Breaktru's help and ideas for this project none of us would be welding today.
      This was not a easy build. Especially in such a small enclosure. With a lot of help and a ton of time and effort,  here it is!!!

Excellent 
Looks really good with the carbon fiber too!

I like that you utilized the ohm meter circuitry from my schematic as well 

[Squance]

Very nice in deed waverunr2001. Good job man.
What is that reading of 2.9 on the meter?

[waverunr2001]

Hi All,
       The meter is reading the nr-r-nr welded coil that's in the alligator clips. 2.9 Ohm. See the piece of silica?  You just can't make out the other clip to well.  Its the first wire I welded.  Thanks everyone for the compliments.  It was tough,  but well worth it.

[ILoveToBuild]

First off, Thank You, Breaktru, for sharing this info and all your diligent work here.    You Rock!!! 

[ILoveToBuild]

I bought a Fuji with a 14 foot flash for $9.88 at Wal-Mart so I could get started.  Then I saw this listed here today...

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/fsh-12/flash-assembly/1.html
Flash Assembly for $1.00!     But I have it now and can get started.   I'm really looking forward to this project.

Thanks again. 

If you can not get used flash cameras, Electronic Goldmine has them on sale. 10 for $4.00
SALE! Super Strobe Board (Package of 10)

This has gone up to $14.90 now. 

[ILoveToBuild]

I got started with my Fuji Flash Board last night.  Just soldered on the wires like the basic version in the beginning, and tacked on a Charge Push Button Switch.  I had some small alligator clips from Radio Shack that I'm using for the Capacitor's Voltage Out  Leads.  Radio Shack Part Number 270-0380.  It's a pack of 12.  The springs are really quite strong!  I have some covers for them.


This is Breaktru's picture, used to show the basic wiring I've done so far.

Mine is not in a box yet, but still in prototype form.  I'm starting with the extreme basic design that was in the schematic in Post #13.  I probably won't add the Power On LED, though I see where it could be a nice reminder, so maybe come Box time.



I'm using a 10K Ohm for discharging in my prototype because I had one.  I'll get the 15K Ohm later.  Haven't added the extra Caps yet for a 360µF total, as I'm just checking that it will weld as the original design did, by using higher Voltages.  I have an Analog Meter that doesn't drop the Voltage too bad.  Not nearly as bad as my Harbor Freight El Cheapo Digital DMM.  Since the Butt Weld method has been discovered to work well at ~75V, I may do OK with that method.  I'll try some different Voltages and see.  But I will definitely add the 360µF total before I'm finished.  I have a strong feeling that I'll need the extra capacitance.

I intend to weld 34g or 32g NR to 30g and 29g Kanthal for use in a Vision Eternity, so I can make coils for a friend.  I have a Vision Eternity that was given to me, and the factory coils are very Hot because they are made with 36g or 34g at 2.0 Ohms.  But the mounting posts are made for that small wire, and a 32g coil is very hard to get on, and it's still kinda Hot.  They also use 4 tiny strands of Silica, and I want to try Cotton in it, plus be able crank up the Volts/Watts beyond what the factory coils can take without giving a burnt taste.  Hence, my need for the Spark-O-Matic.  This is why I joined the forum.

I'll add things to my Spark-O-Matic as I go.  Ultimately, I want to include the Velleman PMLCDL Panel Meter for both Volts and Ohms checking, and put in a 510 on the top of my Box for an RBA/RDA Building Platform with Ohms testing.  I have some other ideas that I'm going to play with, too, but only in the way that 1.5V and 9V are supplied.  Everything else will be the same as Breaktru's design in the schematic in Post #414.  More on this later, if/when I get it worked out.

Thanks again, Breaktru!!!

[ILoveToBuild]

Hello again,

I have a comment/question relating to the Velleman PMLCDL Panel Meter.

As you have it configured with P1 shorted to P0, the decimal place is XXX.X for both Volts and Ohms.  But let's say someone (like me) wanted greater accuracy for the Ohms scale to build a Sub-Ohm coil.  I currently build a dual coil in my RDA at 0.75 Ohms.  I'm going to mount a 510 in my Box, and I think it would be nice to see the Scale change to X.XXX for Ohms, so I could see 0.75X more precisely.

I'm thinking that replacing the Volt/Ohm 3PDT Switch used now with a 4PDT would do it.  With the extra Pole, I/we could remove (or not use) the solder short at P1 to P0, and let the Switch's Volts position short P1 to P0, and the Ohms position short P3 to P0, or whichever one shorted to P0 would work for an X.XXX Scale.  It appears that it would be P3, because of the 200mV Scale.  P3 for 200V seems to be a typo, and should read P1, as P1 worked for you.  Since no one really ever builds a setup at more than 4 Ohms, this Scale should be fine for any Vaper.  And it would be good for up to 9.999 Ohms for anyone who wanted/needed it.

Here's a 4 Pole On-On-On (3 position slide switch) at All Electronics for $1.00...
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/ssw-67/4-pole-slide-switch-on-on-on/1.html
4A @ 125 VAC, 1.5A @ 250 VAC.

Tie the middle two together in each On-On-On Row (the center two of each row of four, with respect to the slider) to make them Common, and slide the action from end to end, skipping the center stop.  One end is Volts, the other is Ohms, with the center position unused.

This same switch could be used as the Battery Off/On, with an extra pole at the Off end to be used to close the 15K Discharge Circuit when the Spark-O-Matic is Off. 

I didn't see a 4PDT at All Electronics.  I didn't see a 3PST or a 3PDT there, either.  The switches you used weren't in your Shopping List, Post #324.  Maybe I missed them somewhere else.  But I think this one would be fine.  You can correct me if I'm wrong (please).

So that was the comment.  Here's the question.  Do you know if P3 should be used for this?  I found where you talked about P3 to P0 not working for you, so you used P1 to P0, but I'm thinking you were going for an XXX.X Scale.

Sorry this was so long.  Thanks in advance. 

PS:  I guess we still use the 200 Ohm Pot (or 500 as mentioned) to set the LM317LZ for 100mA at ADJ to the Resistance Under Load.  Is this correct?

[Breaktru]

The best we can do with this meter is read tenths. I have previously wired in a switch with P3 to P0 for ohms reading and what happens is an ohm reading like 01.5 will show as .015 You don't actually see the hundredths number. It just moves the decimal point.

I prefer the 200 ohm pot over the 500 ohm. It's better for a finer adjustment.

You won't see any difference with a 15K over the 10K for the discharge.

You won't be able to illuminate an LED as an On/Off indicator with a 1.5V AA battery. On my original Spark-O-Matic, I built a Joule Thief circuit as shown HERE

[ILoveToBuild]

The best we can do with this meter is read tenths. I have previously wired in a switch with P3 to P0 for ohms reading and what happens is an ohm reading like 01.5 will show as .015 You don't actually see the hundredths number. It just moves the decimal point.

I prefer the 200 ohm pot over the 500 ohm. It's better for a finer adjustment.

You won't see any difference with a 15K over the 10K for the discharge.

You won't be able to illuminate an LED as an On/Off indicator with a 1.5V AA battery. On my original Spark-O-Matic, I built a Joule Thief circuit as shown HERE

Thanks for this.  I have seen some Joule Thief videos on YouTube, so I'm familiar with the concept.  Amazing how that works!  The videos came up on the side when I was looking at some wire weld designs, before I found you here.

I only said I'd get a 500 Ohm Pot because I'd thought about getting everything from All Electronics, but since the Panel Meter comes from JameCo, I can probably get a 200 Ohm Multi-Turn Pot from there (hopefully 10 turns).  I totally understand your point here!

NOPE! None at JameCo.  Just looked.  If you don't mind, do you remember where you got yours?

For the Ohmmeter to show 2 or 3 decimal places (XX.XX or X.XXX) the way I'd like, I guess the Panel Meter would need a higher Voltage from the LM317LZ, or likely even something else.  Maybe I'll contact Velleman about this.  If I find the info needed, I'll share it here.

Using an LED to indicate that Power is On would come after I work out the alternate way that 1.5V and both 9V are supplied, if I can.     That'll be a project in itself, considering the Ground Isolation that is required for all 3 Power Sources.

Thanks again!   

[ILoveToBuild]

The best we can do with this meter is read tenths. I have previously wired in a switch with P3 to P0 for ohms reading and what happens is an ohm reading like 01.5 will show as .015 You don't actually see the hundredths number. It just moves the decimal point.

Breaktru,

Have you tried this for the Ohms Scale?

P2 to P0
RB = 9.9M Ohms (instead of 9.99M Ohms)
RA = 100K Ohms (as you have RA now)

Since the LM317LZ for the Meter is Powered with 9V and is Outputting somewhere in the 20V Range of the Meter (rather than 200mV or 200/500V), I'm thinking the 20V Scale may work better for reading Ohms, and give a reading better than only Tenths, like 1.5x or even 1.5xx for a 1.5 Ohm resistance.

I wrote to Velleman about the PMLCDL, asking how to set the Scales, and got no reply. So I joined the Support Forum to ask the same question, and they said "Sorry, this is only for Velleman projects." I was like, How is this not a Velleman project? I'm using your Panel Meter! But the thread had been closed and there was no way to ask that person a follow up question.

So I looked at the "Manual" again and thought maybe the 20V Scale would work better than whatever Scale it is with P1 shorted to P0. Of course, implementing this would involve more complicated Switching between Volts and Ohms, but I'm curious to know if this Meter Configuration would work. I haven't purchased the Meter for myself yet, so that's why I'm asking you.

BTW, my Alternate Powering Scheme can be done with Murata (or other vendor's) DC-DC Isolated Converters...





These will allow for Input Power from a single 12V Source or three LiMn Batteries in Series. I think three 14500s would do it, as the total the 3 Converters will draw is only 785mA. I selected the 5V 600mA Converter because the LM317 for making 1.5V to the Flash can need up to 500mA. These also have 3kV and 5.2kV Isolation. Others have 1kV Isolation and may be fine to use.

[Breaktru]

Sounds like Velleman does not want to answer your question by closing (locking) your topic question.

Anyway, I can't get this meter to display more than tenths of a volt in the proper volt range scale.

[ILoveToBuild]

Sounds like Velleman does not want to answer your question by closing (locking) your topic question.

Anyway, I can't get this meter to display more than tenths of a volt in the proper volt range scale.

I was quite disappointed with Velleman!

So you have tried it with different configurations for reading Ohms. That's too bad. 

[Amiga]

Breaktru / Everyone,

I have been following this thread with interest and landed up registering (first post) as i have a old wotan b12 flash stripped it down to find a small simple board with a hitachi 180mfd330wv cap (180uf 330v).

I now have my connectors, box, switches etc to start building this   

I have ordered 34 hitachi 180uf 330v caps for $22  (thinking  2 in parallel giving 360uf), and am due to pick up a load of used single use camera`s with flash from our local asda (walmart) end of the week.

I`ve been toying over the voltmeter to control the sparky and was looking for a high impededance one with back light but running on low voltage but capable of reading up to 400v, it took a while but i eventually found one not bad price either $7


      
XIELI  XL34LCDV-4 3 3/4 DC power supply-Measuring DC LCD digital voltmeter.

Model: XL34LCDV-4
Full range:  +/- 0~399.9V
Resolution: 100mV
Accuracy: +/- 0.3% + 2 digit
Input impedance: 10MOhm
Max input voltage: +/- 500V
Power source: DC5V 30ma
Sample frequency: 400ms
Back lighting control by PIN (Green Backlighting)
Auto Zero
Polarity: Automatic Sensing
Data Hold function
Over Range: Display 4 or -4
Dimension: W79mm x H42.5mm x D25.5mm
ApertureSize: w76mm x h39mm


PIN 1                                      DC5V+  Power supply
PIN2                                       DC5V-  Power supply
PIN 3                                      Backlighting Control by short PIN 1 & PIN3
PIN 4                                      Blank
PIN 5                                      Blank
PIN 6                                      Data Holding [Short PIN6 & PIN1]
   *The data hold control cable must be less than 30cm.
PIN 7                                      DC + voltage signal input
PIN 8                                     DC - voltage signal input


I`m hoping this display will be ok for the job I got it here http://www.aliexpress.com/item/display-3999-lcd-voltmeter-green-LCD/344393792.html well two of them actually.

I`m also looking to  try and put in a wire holding clamp with weld button.

It`ll all work or it`ll go horribly wrong lol

[Breaktru]

Hi Amiga and welcome to the forum. Thanks for posting.

Great to hear that you are planning to build a Spark-O-Matic.
Looks like a nice capable meter.
Have you given any thought into supplying the 5V needed for the meter power source?

[Amiga]

Have you given any thought into supplying the 5V needed for the meter power source?

my idea was to use a second 1.5v battery with DC-DC Boost Converter Step Up Module 1-5V to 5V 500mA Power Module as its tiny.

I also have a dual channel wii controller charge station board spare so was thinking that could be connected to the two AA cell sockets to provide recharging of the AA`s (probably be using 2100mah nimh)
and then I could drill holes for the charge leds and 5v charge port.

[Brian9523]

Nice Amiga. I hope you post something when you are done 

[waverunr2001]

Yes, I would like to see that as well. I do like the  panel meter. 5V? Wouldn't  the 9V still work, or is that to much for that meter?

[wa9w00d]

my idea was to use a second 1.5v battery with DC-DC Boost Converter Step Up Module 1-5V to 5V 500mA Power Module as its tiny.

I also have a dual channel wii controller charge station board spare so was thinking that could be connected to the two AA cell sockets to provide recharging of the AA`s (probably be using 2100mah nimh)
and then I could drill holes for the charge leds and 5v charge port.

If you want to keep it simple, and if that 30 mA drain is right, you could just put a 130 ohm resistor in series with a 9 volt battery.  Not the most efficient, but dead simple and cheap.

Wayne

[beefy0678]

Hi, Breaktru, thanks for a graet in depth tutorial/life essay lol we thank you for it.

I have a question, like everyone else, mine is regarding the capacitors and how to find out what the voltage and what uf they are when they aren't written on the side. I went to my local Boots and got 2 carrier bags full of them and thought this would be a walk in the park but when i opened them all up almost all of the capacitors had no real markings on. some had the usual 330v 80uF but others just have things like '4(2) ND' is there anyway i can find out what these are? The only ones that had anything on them were NOT the Fuji ones, but a couple of AA ones.

Here are a few of the things what are written on the side if anyone has got a clue, i have googled it but i can't find anything...

N483T
4(2) 6D
2(2) Nc
T0510 PET
4(2) 3E
678
4(2) NN

There are more but mostly the same just with different numbers but in the same format as what i have given.


Please help, or do i just nee to throw them away?

Or is there a way to test them? I think it is pretty obvious that they are 330v but what uF are they?

If nobody knows then in the bin they go

Thanks in advance!

[Breaktru]

Yes they all should be 330v.
Unfortunately the markings on some caps are the camera manufactures reference numbers and not the capacitor manufactures. So looking them up is useless.
What I did was compare physical size of a known cap uF to one that did not have a uF value.

Of course measuring the uF value with a DMM that has capacitance ranges would be best. I couldn't because my DMM only goes up to 20uF in scale.

[beefy0678]

Yes they all should be 330v.
Unfortunately the markings on some caps are the camera manufactures reference numbers and not the capacitor manufactures. So looking them up is useless.
What I did was compare physical size of a known cap uF to one that did not have a uF value.

Of course measuring the uF value with a DMM that has capacitance ranges would be best. I couldn't because my DMM only goes up to 20uF in scale.

Mate, thanks so much for the quick reply! You are awesome!

Well i have got 6 that are marked up from unknown disposable manufacturer cameras, but all the 'Known' brands have all got ones tha aren't marked in them, not one lol

I don't know if that is a UK thing or what but it is tootally crappy for us isn't it! lol

What i will do is wire 4 of the 80uF together and try that and also just wire 3 of the ones i got out of the fuji cams together too, just to see how they do. The 80uF's are bigger too (They are all AA ones not AAA, which might have somethingwith why they are labelled...?)  to do it will take up more space in whatever box i decide to use in the end, plus i have to put an extra one in. But who cares right? this is what experimenting is about!!

Also while you are answering questions, I want to zap thicker wire like 26awg or maybe even 24awg, will this do it or willl i need to add extra caps etc? I am not too bothered if i can't as i can parallell build a coil but i want to rebuild some atlantis coils and some zephyrus coils and need the extra thickness. Any input is greatly appreciated!

Thanks again, and again!

 

[Breaktru]

Yeah four 80uF is good and trying the three w/ the existing will probably work as well.

For thicker gauge wire you will have to go up a bit with the voltage setting using the same cap values. Experiment on voltage until you get it right.

[beefy0678]

Yeah four 80uF is good and trying the three w/ the existing will probably work as well.

For thicker gauge wire you will have to go up a bit with the voltage setting using the same cap values. Experiment on voltage until you get it right.

Once again, thank you!

You have helped alleviate some prebuild jitters really bad ones too lol!

Time to choose which two boards i will want to be using and strip some capps and flashes off! lol

I have already got a little 3-digit digital voltmeter, but it is made for li-on batteries, it was going to be used for a different build but decided not to use it, anyway it only has 2 leads and only goes to 30volts, can i still use it usng the method you describe where it shows 7.5 volts instead of 75, or should i just wait for the 100volt one i have got on it's way (again one that was for something else but is now going to be used to do something a lot better lol), the only thing is that the 100volt one uses a common ground as it has 3 leads and needs at least 3.5volts to operate, well they both need 3.5 to 30 volts to operate so will that make the voltage drop too?

Which would you use if any?

Or should i get a completey different one?

If you used a different one, which would you recommend?

And so, so sorry for all the questions!

  


Thanks!

[Breaktru]

I would suggest to wire up and don't put it in a box just yet. This way you can determine how bad the meter bleeds down the voltage.
Start w/ your 30V 2-wire meter w/ the resistor to lower the voltage reading. See this post about adding the resistor

Even w/ the better meter I used, I get some bleed down but it's not something terrible.
The meter I choose has an Input Impedance of 100M ohm. A meter w/ 10M ohm or more input impedance is recommended.

The meter I used was: http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&productId=2131135&catalogId=10001&CID=MERCH
The optional resistor set will also be needed for the Velleman.
It could be challenging for some to figure out the wiring scheme on the Velleman panel meter.

[beefy0678]

I would suggest to wire up and don't put it in a box just yet. This way you can determine how bad the meter bleeds down the voltage.
Start w/ your 30V 2-wire meter w/ the resistor to lower the voltage reading. See this post about adding the resistor

Even w/ the better meter I used, I get some bleed down but it's not something terrible.
The meter I choose has an Input Impedance of 100M ohm. A meter w/ 10M ohm or more input impedance is recommended.

The meter I used was: http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&productId=2131135&catalogId=10001&CID=MERCH
The optional resistor set will also be needed for the Velleman.
It could be challenging for some to figure out the wiring scheme on the Velleman panel meter.

Thanks again for the advice, really hope i am not bugging you!

I will try the way you said, get a working unit and then try the different led volt meters on it.

I also saw this one,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blue-LED-Panel-Meter-4-Wires-3-1-2-Digital-Voltmeter-Display-DC0-500V-/121724183896?hash=item1c5753a558

 it looks a bit like yours but slightly different. It is 0-500v and has 4 wire input, 2 for the power to run it and 2 for the reader. With it being able to go to 500v would make it a bit easier as i wouldn't need to use a resistor would i? Plus because it has 4 leads does that mean that there will be little or no voltage drop off as it is not trying to take any power from the item it is reading to make it work like the 2 wire ones do, they take power to light up the numbers from whatever they are reading, hence the voltage drop?


I knoow it sounds as though i am hung up on the reader but as we need the exact voltages to make the welds better, this is the only point i need help with lol I charged up a capacitor and used my little crappy DMM and the voltage dropped like a stone. That's why i want to go the all in one route.

Thanks for your patience with me and for answering all my pesky questions, especially if these have been asked before, i did read through the whole thread but couldn't see anything definitive about these questions i asked (or i wouldn't be asking them i suppose lol).

Thanks very much, for the answers to my questions and not treating me like an idiot like some other forums would do... we all know one or 2 like that now don't we!

 

[MonkeyTokes]

Call your local CVS or other film developing place/pharmacy and ask them to set aside the old disposables. You could even offer them $10 or so if its a mom and pop and for something they'll throw away they'll gladly give you.

[beefy0678]

Call your local CVS or other film developing place/pharmacy and ask them to set aside the old disposables. You could even offer them $10 or so if its a mom and pop and for something they'll throw away they'll gladly give you.

I got all of mine from Boots chemist in the photo part in the shop, i went in 2 days in a row and got a carrier bag filled both days. Then i went to one of th little places and they flat out refused me saying they recycle them don't know if that was true and they get paid to recycle them or not but if they did then i would of thought boots would too. Yet they let me have loads, i suppose it is just whoever is working there at the time...

[Breaktru]

No problem asking beefy. That's what the forum is all about. Helping others. There are knowledgeable members here that may also chime in.

If you will be building the ohm reader also, an independent ground would be necessary. Such as the meter you linked to has. It won't help with battery bleed down. The 10M ohm or higher input impedance rating is important. Lower than that will bleed down quicker. I don't see a "input impedance" spec for the meter you show.

[beefy0678]

No problem asking beefy. That's what the forum is all about. Helping others. There are knowledgeable members here that may also chime in.

If you will be building the ohm reader also, an independent ground would be necessary. Such as the meter you linked to has. It won't help with battery bleed down. The 10M ohm or higher input impedance rating is important. Lower than that will bleed down quicker. I don't see a "input impedance" spec for the meter you show.

I don't want to do the ohm meter, i just want to have the voltage meter panel on it like your earlier ones, the ohmmeter is for a bit further down the road.

That being said, i have found this page for buying panel meters with greater than 100mohm impedence and it has the fine tune resistors that you need to use with it and also a schematic at the bottom, for people in the uk like me. I looked everywhere before coming across this page lol but i think it might be helpful for anyone using a panel meter to measure voltage.

Can you please have a look and let me know if i am on the right track with these cause if i am then i will buy one of the panel meters and a set of the resistors straight away!

Thanks again!

[beefy0678]

Forgot to post the page link lol:

https://www.esr.co.uk/electronics/test-panel.htm