The Spark-O-Matic - Wire Arc Welding for coil making

[Breaktru]

I want to give credit to "Diver" for his "The TSAF" and to mre777 for his idea to try a disposable camera although I believe this is the 1st welder using a disposable camera board.
A great way to spot weld no resistance wire to resistance coil wire w/ a flash circuit removed from a $6 disposable camera, actually it was 9.95 in CVS because this is a long range flash. If you ask nicely you can obtain some for free from a store that develops film.
This baby can crank out a max of 300+ volts so "USE WITH CAUTION" you can zap yourself pretty bad. You only need 75v for a good weld using the capacitor total value of approximately 340uF. Read thru the topic. There is good info here to build your own. Many of the welders shown on other sites for sale were made from the info gathered here. Too bad they never mention where they got there knowledge of building one. That is also true with the mods on this forum.

Photos are only visible to logged on members, see attached:

**I am happy to share info with all that drop by this forum. So dropping a mention when you post your mod elsewhere would be a decent gesture.
Show your support by signing up as a member and please participate by posting**

Key Points found in this thread:
Tips for a successful weld
Wire Schematic/Diagram
Use Caution
Setting Cap Charge
Learning Curve
Rehash - Stable Voltage
Adding More Caps
Magic Number
Arc Welding in Action - MORE
Butt Weld (BEST) Method
Why is my voltage dropping?
Winding A Coil
Adding Panel Meter
Buy Cap and board
Quality Welding Clips
More Parts
LED for 1.5v
With Volt and Ohm Meter

[redwolfe]

Should be an exciting project! Can't wait to see how it turns out!

[CraigHB]

A little spot welder for $6, can't beat that.  Pretty ingenious.

[Pantera]

Shocking! ain't it. I'll be following this closely w/ interest.

[SmokeRings]

It looks simple enough to build. The price is right too. 

[eGoManiac]

Looks really sweet! With detailed instructions, it looks like something even a modding noob like me could do ... and I could sure use one for my GG RBAs!

[Breaktru]

Looks really sweet! With detailed instructions, it looks like something even a modding noob like me could do ... and I could sure use one for my GG RBAs!

Yes it is easy to make. I have it completed, waiting for some epoxy to dry. I'm having a lot of fun sparking stuff.
Photos are on the way........

[Breaktru]

I tried The Spark-O-Matic with 28 gauge Kanthal A1 resistance wire and 30 gauage Silver 999 no resistance wire. I successfully tacked them together but you have to get the hang of the charge duration. Too long a charge and the silver melts. Too short and tack doesn't hold. I found that holding the charge button for approximately 4 seconds is perfect (167vdc). Connect a volt meter.
UPDATE: Now use 75v w/ extra capacitance
Also, clean the wires with alcohol to remove any oils, including oils from handling.
The ends to be tacked should be over-lapped and NOT simply touched at the ends.
Keep exposed wire short.







Here is a video that will show where to connect your wires to the flash board:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydwHahAbw2A&feature=youtu.be

[jmarkus]

wow!! id love more of a schematic if you have time...or just more details on how exactly you wired it up. im seeing a shit-ton of wires, leds, buttons...

[Breaktru]

wow!! id love more of a schematic if you have time...or just more details on how exactly you wired it up. im seeing a $#!+-ton of wires, leds, buttons...

It just looks like a ton of wires due to my sloppy rush to finish. When I get a chance I'll see if I can put a schematic together.

[jmarkus]

sorry, i didnt mean to say it looked messy...cuz it totally looks AMAZING. thank you so much for all the work you do break!!

cant wait for the schematic, but i think i get it now with your ecf comments and detail.

thanks mate.

[Breaktru]

sorry, i didnt mean to say it looked messy...cuz it totally looks AMAZING. thank you so much for all the work you do break!!

cant wait for the schematic, but i think i get it now with your ecf comments and detail.

thanks mate.

I understand you totally and am in no way offended. It is what it is... messy

[Breaktru]

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwSgK4UTMr4&feature=youtu.be

[Breaktru]

I have put together two schematics, first one is from a FujiFilm disposable camera and the second one is from a Kodak camera.
LED's are not necessary. Omit them if you like.
See attached............. (you must log on to see schematics)
and..... a schematic using a panel voltage meter --> HERE

[jmarkus]

funny, i was just gonna ask if this was right:


i guess it is! wow...so awesome.

wait..maybe i did it slightly different...im going neg to on/off switch, your going pos...does it matter?

also, i see that 4 seconds of charging (in the video, from time code 0:13 to 0:17) gets you to about 300 volts, then slowly creeps up to eventually hit 350 max or so...kinda insane. so i guess around 300v's is where you need it to attach the wires you tried.

[Breaktru]

funny, i was just gonna ask if this was right:

i guess it is! wow...so awesome.

wait..maybe i did it slightly different...im going neg to on/off switch, your going pos...does it matter?

It doesn't matter if you break the Battery Neg or Pos. Yours will work too.

P.S.
I had the on/off switch wrong, just corrected it.

[fsors]

Dave that's awesome do you where insulated gloves whilst welding NR wires to R wires? 

[Breaktru]

Dave that's awesome do you where insulated gloves whilst welding NR wires to R wires? 

No, The probes are insulated. I suggest that the user uses CAUTION when handling.
Make sure the capacitor is discharge before touching the alligator clips. I use a 15K resistor to short between leads before handling.
I may add a discharge post with a 1K to 15K resistor. 1K for quick discharge, 15K to bump voltage down slowly for target voltage.
UPDATE: A 15K discharge resistor/button was added.

[jomurp]

Good idea about the discharge resistor. Although it's over 300 VDC, the amperage is low but nevertheless it hurts like a bitch. I have seen a bunch of kids on you-tube making Tasar guns with the flash ckts.

[fsors]

No, The probes are insulated. I suggest that the user uses CAUTION when handling.
Make sure the capacitor is discharge before touching the alligator clips. I use a 15K resistor to short between leads before handling.
I may add a discharge post with a 1K to 15K resistor

Awesome work Buddy I gotta make one as soon as I find some extra time. Would be very handy to have around in the vaping toolbox!!! 

[Breaktru]

Setting Charge Capacitor Voltage the easy way........
This video shows the original single cap, 120uF @ 170v. Now I use 75v w/ 340uF.
Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiCT2V0Fq-E&feature=youtu.be

[fsors]

nice vid Dave really helps!
are you using  any solder and or flux when you weld?

[Breaktru]

nice vid Dave really helps!
are you using  any solder and or flux when you weld?

No fsors, it's arc welding. The melting of metal to metal.

[MidnighToker]

I have put together a schematic.
See attached.............

Dude....If I were, well into guys, I would so offer you tongue (or more) right now.  Was this close to dropping a load on one of these little toys from some 3rd world country in Europe.....

Got a drawer full  of disposable cameras that never got sent out so this should keep me busy for a bit....  Thanks man!

[Breaktru]

Dude....If I were, well into guys, I would so offer you tongue (or more) right now.  Was this close to dropping a load on one of these little toys from some 3rd world country in Europe.....

Got a drawer full  of disposable cameras that never got sent out so this should keep me busy for a bit....  Thanks man!

Glad I could help.
Good to see you back on the forum. Been awhile since you posted.. like a year ago.

[fsors]

No fsors, it's arc welding. The melting of metal to metal.

fantastic Dave even easier then. how long do you hold the wires on the charge whilst welding them?

[MidnighToker]

Glad I could help.
Good to see you back on the forum. Been awhile since you posted.. like a year ago.

I know....I need to spend more time here.  Keep getting stuck at VF fixing problems.  Would much rather be modding.....One of these days I'll manage to pick your brain about PIC programming.  Been meaning to tackle that FOREVER.

ETA - the list of ideas in my head just keeps growing, but need to find the time (and patience) to see them happen.

[eGoManiac]

fantastic Dave even easier then. how long do you hold the wires on the charge whilst welding them?

It's instant, Fsors. The weld happens, literally, in a flash! 

[eGoManiac]

Really outstanding! I'll start gathering the parts tomorrow ... this thing will get used on a DAILY basis! (I do a lot of coils, and a lot of experimenting with coils ...) BTW, for folks who are getting a "burnt rubber" taste out of their re-built Vivi Nova heads, adding NR wires to the coil can eliminate that and this gadget makes producing the NR/R/NR wires that will work in the VNs much easier; the traditional method of twisting the wires together makes too big a "knot" for use in the VNs, but these welded joints should work a treat ...

[Breaktru]

I want to make something clear to those that are getting into this Sparky thingy.

There is a learning curve. Wire gauge and voltage rating, wire material, steady hand and eye co-ordination, prepping the wire by cleaning off any oil contaminates, etc........

It's easy welding the same gauge wire and same material together but that's not what we are doing here.
The first round of welding of 30ga Silver .999 wire to 28ga Kanthal worked well. Today I tried 32ga Nichrome to 30ga Silver and wasn't successful.

Trial and error. For successful welds, write down your wire type and at what voltage it worked best at.
Don't keep zapping over an unsuccessful weld. The arc will leave a burn mark and pitting which will lead to poor results. Cut the end off and try again. Once you have the settings down, you won't have to cut off the bad spots and you can do it in one shot.

Good luck guys and post your results so we can all learn from what you experienced. It will save others lots of time finding what works and what doesn't. 

[lazydog]

Another awesome project Breaktru thanks for sharing 

[d_walk]

I picked up a couple of spent ones from the local pharmacy that they pulled the film from. Gonna give it ago. Thanks breaktru for sharing.

[redwolfe]

I just found this video on a similar product from Europe:

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OdDSkcqMjc&feature=youtu.be

[fsors]

thanks for posting the vid red! values included check it out that will save some trial an error

[Breaktru]

Red, I posted the originator in the Video thread a week ago. Also gave him credit in the OP.
See it HERE

[redwolfe]

Whoops, I didn't see that. 

[Breaktru]

I have some info to share that may help some that are struggling to find the right settings.

After playing around with the .999 Pure Silver 30ga and the Nichrome 32ga I believe I found a solution to a better weld.

With just the capacitor that came with the flash circuit, I was using 167v and that was a hit and miss result.
I paralleled a capacitor on to the base of the leads. Trying several sizes from 100uF to 1000uF.
I found that an additional 220uF, 330VDC was best (120 + 220 = 340uF). With this cap 75v was ideal. Spark is a lot less but tacks well. The additional capacitor did the trick.

Another thing I observed and tried it several times to confirm: When bumping the voltage up by tapping the fire button, wait and watch for the voltage to stabilize to 75v. Tap again to bring it up and wait again. You may need to do this 2 or 3 times. If you are impatient and try to weld as the voltage is dropping and hits the 75v mark, you are NOT going to get a good weld. Been there, done that.
A cheap meter with low input impedance will make the caps discharge.

Repeating what I said before:
Tight clamping on to the wires is a must
Keep exposed wire ends short
Over-lap the ends. Do not touch the tips
Cut off unsuccessful arc marks

[MidnighToker]

I can see now tha this is going to be the eternal project for me unless I find a way to send the wife and kids away for a few days....

Red, I posted the originator in the Video thread a week ago. Also gave him credit in the OP.
See it HERE

That video is what started me on this quest.  I must have spent about a day and a half watching that video before I could finish it without getting interrupted...not that I understood a damned word of it. LOL  Then Urquidez told me about this thread (Thank GAWD!!!) and I happened to have 4 cameras that were sitting a drawer for who knows how long waiting to get developed.  FREE TOYS!

I have some info to share that may help some that are struggling to find the right settings.

After playing around with the .999 Pure Silver 30ga and the Nichrome 32ga I believe I found a solution to a better weld.

With just the capacitor that came with the flash circuit, I was using 167v and that was a hit and miss result.
I paralleled a capacitor on to the base of the leads. Trying several sizes from 100uF to 1000uF.
I found that a 220uF, 300VDC was best. With this cap 75v was ideal. Spark is a lot less but tacks well. The additional capacitor did the trick.

Another thing I observed and tried it several times to confirm: When bumping the voltage up by tapping the fire button, wait and watch for the voltage to stabilize to 75v. Tap again to bring it up and wait again. You may need to do this 2 or 3 times. With the additional capacitor I notice the voltage takes more time to stabilize. If you are impatient and try to weld as the voltage is dropping and hits the 75v mark, you are NOT going to get a good weld. Been there, done that.

Repeating what I said before:
Wires should be clean of oils and tarnish
Tight clamping on to the wires is a must
Keep exposed wire ends short
Over-lap the ends. Do not touch the tips
Cut off unsuccessful arc marks

I have some monster caps that I ripped out of an old car amp when I first started looking at this.  Once I get a working prototype up and running I may try messing with some of those.  I haven't even begun to start looking for a case for this yet 

[WarLion]

do you know if a nickel wire works? or you only can do it with silver?

[jmarkus]

I have some info to share that may help some that are struggling to find the right settings.

After playing around with the .999 Pure Silver 30ga and the Nichrome 32ga I believe I found a solution to a better weld.

With just the capacitor that came with the flash circuit, I was using 167v and that was a hit and miss result.
I paralleled a capacitor on to the base of the leads. Trying several sizes from 100uF to 1000uF.
I found that a 220uF, 300VDC was best. With this cap 75v was ideal. Spark is a lot less but tacks well. The additional capacitor did the trick.

Another thing I observed and tried it several times to confirm: When bumping the voltage up by tapping the fire button, wait and watch for the voltage to stabilize to 75v. Tap again to bring it up and wait again. You may need to do this 2 or 3 times. With the additional capacitor I notice the voltage takes more time to stabilize. If you are impatient and try to weld as the voltage is dropping and hits the 75v mark, you are NOT going to get a good weld. Been there, done that.

Repeating what I said before:
Wires should be clean of oils and tarnish
Tight clamping on to the wires is a must
Keep exposed wire ends short
Over-lap the ends. Do not touch the tips
Cut off unsuccessful arc marks

when adding a second cap, can i just solder the caps together (neg to neg and pos to pos)? i dont know what the caps are on these flashes, but if i just use another one run in parallel, will it have a similar result you think?

i noticed on the cap im using, voltage never really stabilizes that ive seen...seems to always slowly tick down...maybe thats been my problem with the silver.

oh, and dude...thanks so much for putting so much effort and testing in for all of us, truly awesome!

[bapgood]

Breaktru,
I just picked up my camera and then some parts at radio shack. They didn't have any high voltage 220uF caps....only 35v

I'm guessing these caps are going to be a special order thing, or can you think of somewhere common folks can pick some up/rob them out of?

[Breaktru]

Breaktru,
I just picked up my camera and then some parts at radio shack. They didn't have any high voltage 220uF caps....only 35v

I'm guessing these caps are going to be a special order thing, or can you think of somewhere common folks can pick some up/rob them out of?

220uF Caps

[Breaktru]

I have some monster caps that I ripped out of an old car amp when I first started looking at this.  Once I get a working prototype up and running I may try messing with some of those.  I haven't even begun to start looking for a case for this yet 

Cars use 12v so the cap is probably like 35v - 50v tops. You'll probable pop the cap. If it is too big in uF value, you won't be able to charge it too high. I tried a large 1000uF and it peaked at about 90v and took for ever to charge.

Like I mentioned, I tried 100uF to 1000uf.   Oh wait, just remembered. Also tried a 40MFD
Before soldering in the 220uF, I used two 100uF's in parallel. Worked the same as the 220uF.

If you are thinking of using the extra caps, jumper them on to the base of the test leads. It's a quick way to try different caps.


And.......... I added the discharge button w/ a 15K resistor

[Breaktru]

when adding a second cap, can i just solder the caps together (neg to neg and pos to pos)? i dont know what the caps are on these flashes, but if i just use another one run in parallel, will it have a similar result you think?

i noticed on the cap im using, voltage never really stabilizes that ive seen...seems to always slowly tick down...maybe thats been my problem with the silver.

oh, and dude...thanks so much for putting so much effort and testing in for all of us, truly awesome!

When your ready to permanently add the cap, yes parallel the caps. Neg to Neg and Pos to Pos.
but before that use alligator jumpers on the base of the test leads and just clip on the cap. Make sure you first check the polarity of your test leads w/ a volt meter.

After playing w/ it awhile you will get the hang of it. Update: Use a quality Volt Meter. Cheap meters will cause the voltage to drop due to it's LOW input impedance. A quality meters input impedance is 10M ohms or more.

[bapgood]

220uF Caps

Yes, I know.....I just made a mouser order yesterday 

[Breaktru]

do you know if a nickel wire works? or you only can do it with silver?

After welding the silver w/ the nichrome, I tried a strand of copper to nichrome and it worked good. I mic'd the copper and it was the same diameter as the 32ga nichrome wire. (0.007950)
Don't have any nickel to try.

[Breaktru]

Yes, I know.....I just made a mouser order yesterday 

I've done that so many times.

[bapgood]

I've done that so many times.

I just got digging through boxes and boxes of components at work....and we have just about anything imaginable up to 50v or so......www here I come 

[bapgood]

Breaktru,
I tore my camera down and it has a single 120uF 330v cap.

You mentioned that your tried 2 100uF caps and it worked about the same as the 2 220uF that you are using now. So I'm assuming maybe 2 120uF would work ok??? Because it would cost me about the same to go buy another camera as it would to order and ship a couple of caps.

Thoughts

[Breaktru]

Breaktru,
I tore my camera down and it has a single 120uF 330v cap.

You mentioned that your tried 2 100uF caps and it worked about the same as the 2 220uF that you are using now. So I'm assuming maybe 2 120uF would work ok??? Because it would cost me about the same to go buy another camera as it would to order and ship a couple of caps.

Thoughts

Too bad some of us can't acquire a $#!+ load of used cameras. We can salvage the caps too.

Anyway......  It was ONE 220uF added and before that was TWO 100uF's in parallel = 200uF.

Assuming my flash circuit has already a 120uF and I paralleled the 220uF. The total value is 340uF.
You would need to add TWO more 120uF caps for a total of 360uF